Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[rondofj]

  On 26/03/2012 at 2:30 AM, SimonR32 said:

Every decent turbo makes 180-200rwkw at 4000rpm on a RB25... It can be a T67, 3071, 3076 or HKS 2835pros, they all do it

It's what happens before and after then that makes the turbos different!

If a T67 can make 180-200rwkw @4000rpm on 98 fuel (I dont believe so), then it IS the best turbo for the RB25. I would set two benchmarks for response on a stock RB25 with 98 fuel. 80-100rwkw @3000rpm and at least 180-200rwkw @ 4000rpm. Any turbo that makes this is decent and any turbo that makes this and the MOST top end after that is the ideal turbo right?

[Manuel Kasko]

What about 9000kw by 9000rpm!

Now that would be a turbo

[DVS JEZ]

Also no magic was done on this car. Ramp rate was 15km per second which is a fairly light rate. I can ramp it harder to make it look more responsive on paper but i dont

[GTScotT]

  On 26/03/2012 at 2:43 AM, Birds said:

If the turbo can hold boost for the upper RPM, there's no reason it can't make 260-270 IMO, so no it's not comparable to a GTRS...it's slightly better

Winnar!

[hypergear]

The other option that I used to hold boost is to basically preload the actuator harder. The overall behaivor would be more boost through out whole rev range and makes better response due to analog behavior of the valve. also did you unload the actuator to gain less boost? it appears abit laggier when what it should be on a 15km/sec ramp as Trent uses same ramp rate. The actuator must be preloaded all times or the disc would be free spinnning all times under pressure, over time it will snap.

I think the difference between the SS1PU making 180rwkws by 4000RPMS vs a G3 that so makes 180rwkws by 4000 and maxing 300rwkws+ is in the dynamic of power delivery. wither the SS1PU would comes straight alive when acceleration is stepped in and G3 would felt a linear of power build up. That doesn't show on the dyno graph.

Also DVS: I've noticed this from a customer's tuner, because he is not comfortable tunning stock engine at 20psi with that actuator, to avoid engine issues he deliberitly removing timing from the mid range to make the car safe. Which resulted in a 14psi actuator gains better mid range more overall response and more power with less boost. Do you do similar sort of thing as well to engines you don't know?

The mod I'm going to test out this weekend is also based on a SS1PU how ever with a clip on arm extension. In physics greater distance gain more control same as undo a tight bolt with a longer spanner turns out easier. if that works then we might be able to hold boost flat.

[GTScotT]

  On 26/03/2012 at 3:02 AM, Kasko said:

What about 9000kw by 9000rpm!

Now that would be a turbo

Then Derp posts his results and everyones like:

"Its OVER NINEE THOOUUSSAAANNDDDD!!!!!!!"

SIU SIU SIU SIU *Glowing blonde hair is on fire*

  On 26/03/2012 at 3:59 AM, hypergear said:

I think the difference between the SS1PU making 180rwkws by 4000RPMS vs a G3 that so makes 180rwkws by 4000 and maxing 300rwkws+ is in the dynamic of power delivery. wither the SS1PU would comes straight alive when acceleration is stepped in and G3 would felt a linear of power build up. That doesn't show on the dyno graph.

Thanks for giving your opinion on this, as I was wondering why reports of other turbos that match the power @ rpm get different reports. I think you should look into what causes that effect!

[ARTZ]

  On 26/03/2012 at 3:59 AM, hypergear said:

I think the difference between the SS1PU making 180rwkws by 4000RPMS vs a G3 that so makes 180rwkws by 4000 and maxing 300rwkws+ is in the dynamic of power delivery. wither the SS1PU would comes straight alive when acceleration is stepped in and G3 would felt a linear of power build up. That doesn't show on the dyno graph.

So what your saying in a nutshell, is that it's more responsive..

[DVS JEZ]

I didnt install the turbo or touch the actuator.

Im not afraid of running big boost on stock motors, u can tell from my own cars. 22psi rb26.

I love the midrange Nd power curve of the ss1. But it is tuned with a safety factor

[SimonR32]

  On 26/03/2012 at 2:30 AM, SimonR32 said:

Every decent turbo makes 180-200rwkw at 4000rpm on a RB25... It can be a T67, 3071, 3076 or HKS 2835pros, they all do it

It's what happens before and after then that makes the turbos different!

  On 26/03/2012 at 2:40 AM, GTScotT said:

Yeah, so doesnt a GTRS do roughly 180-200 @4000 and end up around 250 by 7000? LOL

So its more or less hitting GTRS benchmarks, OK glad we agree.

Notice I said what happens before and after... You talked about after (which I agree is similar), not before... Which it isn't!!!

The only reason you would buy a GT-RS is for response between 2500-4000rpm which is also the spot where it murders the hypergear.

  On 26/03/2012 at 2:43 AM, Birds said:

If the turbo can hold boost for the upper RPM, there's no reason it can't make 260-270 IMO, so no it's not comparable to a GTRS...it's slightly better

If a GT-RS could hold more boost it would make more power

[zebra]

I tend to agree with Simon here.

compared to my old highflow setup I was seeing ~230rwkws at 6200rpm and 20psi but was making peak torque at 3300rpm and fullboost around 2800rpm in 4th

I cant find the sheet to scan unfortunatly so you will have to take my word for it

but to me that is what a GT082R graph should look like but without the power up top

[Manuel Kasko]

I guess we can sit back and see what Birds makes and compaire the 2.

Overall I am happy with the turbo

For $1500 it's a great turbo guys

[zebra]

hehe Im sure it is great fun to drive, which is the main thing

[zebra]

But, just for intrests sake

typical GT-RS RB25 Result

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/55845-rb25-turbo-upgrade-all-dyno-results/page__view__findpost__p__6053830

[ARTZ]

  On 26/03/2012 at 4:30 AM, DVS JEZ said:

I love the midrange Nd power curve of the ss1. But it is tuned with a safety factor

So you will be throwing the kando in the bin now?

[Birds]

  On 26/03/2012 at 5:00 AM, SimonR32 said:

Notice I said what happens before and after... You talked about after (which I agree is similar), not before... Which it isn't!!!

The only reason you would buy a GT-RS is for response between 2500-4000rpm which is also the spot where it murders the hypergear.

If a GT-RS could hold more boost it would make more power

But does the GT-RS peak at 20 and then drop off 4-5psi like the HG? Because if it holds all the way to RPM then that's probably all the GT-RS has got. If, on the other hand, you can find a way to make the HG hold 20psi to redline, then it'll see more top end. There's more factors than just the boost at play too...look at previous SS1PU results in this thread...they have cleared 260 in the past.

I'm not so sure about murdering the HG for response either, I'll wait for my results to compare, because my SS1PU was coming on very early in it's untuned state. Didn't feel much laggier than the standard turbo!

  On 26/03/2012 at 5:07 AM, zebra said:

I tend to agree with Simon here.

compared to my old highflow setup I was seeing ~230rwkws at 6200rpm and 20psi but was making peak torque at 3300rpm and fullboost around 2800rpm in 4th

I cant find the sheet to scan unfortunatly so you will have to take my word for it

but to me that is what a GT082R graph should look like but without the power up top

This is a bit of a moot point though, you're saying your turbo that had less top end but was more responsive?

[Birds]

  On 26/03/2012 at 5:11 AM, Kasko said:

I guess we can sit back and see what Birds makes and compaire the 2.

Overall I am happy with the turbo

For $1500 it's a great turbo guys

Look forward to it mate lol. And yes, $1500 vs $3800, take your pick...

[zebra]

Much more responsive..by about 1000rpm

but yes, get the SS1 to hold 20psi and it will be up on my old setup by 30odd killer wasps, but mine would murder the SS1 through the midrange

I would like to see a SS0.5 though

[SimonR32]

[rondofj]

  On 26/03/2012 at 5:32 AM, Birds said:

Look forward to it mate lol. And yes, $1500 vs $3800, take your pick...

What $3800??? You can get a genuine Garret 3076R turbo only from the States delivered for around $1300. Ebay my friend, stop paying more than twice the price to local rip-offs.

Edited March 26, 2012 by rondofj

[zebra]

He is talking a HKS GT-RS kit

which I will say, that starting from sctrach isnt that expensive

say 1500 for the SS1, 200odd for a dump pipe, 300 for an intake pipe, new water oil lines etc 150-200 (not a nessesity) and it it will fit 100% the first time everytime.

So yes its more expensive by say $1000, but to some it is worth it.

Hypergear to me, seem to change turbo designs more than I change clothes, so it is really hard to compare to setups as everytime I jump into the thread there is a new version of an ATR43G3 etc

So while development is good, what about the poor buggers who bough a G3 a couple of years ago

This isnt a rant btw, but it really seems as though Hypergear are using teh end user as Beta testers.

Builds a new turbo, does a few dynos runs then releases them into the market.

What I would really love to see is some serious R&D done one just 1 or 2 turbos, so that they fit perfect and dont burn aircon drains, and get them to hold boost without weird little screw adjusters welded to the turbine hosuing.

For a small outfit they are doing very well.....to the RB25 guys.

But to be a serious contender in the turbo market some issues need to be addressed (see above)

It would be grreat to have an Aussie turbo manufacturer as the #1 choice for people with skylines rather than seemingly "I cant afford a Garrett/BW/Trust turbo so I'll get a HG" crowd

I would seriously look at a HG turbo for my new motor if they weren't based around RB25s only

But at this stage there are other options out there that are known to perform better for less money for my application.

TL;DR

I support Hypergear, but issues need to change