Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Birds]

What $3800??? You can get a genuine Garret 3076R turbo only from the States delivered for around $1300. Ebay my friend, stop paying more than twice the price to local rip-offs.

As per what zebra said, that's the RRP of an HKS GT-RS kit, which is what we were comparing the SS1PU to before. I haven't bought anything?

[rondofj]

As per what zebra said, that's the RRP of an HKS GT-RS kit, which is what we were comparing the SS1PU to before. I haven't bought anything?

Okies, you getting your car back today? Will be interesting to compare the results hey..

[Birds]

It's 5pm and I haven't had a phone call, I'd say not lol. Will give them a call for an update.

EDIT: No answer, here's hoping tomorrow

[Hanaldo]

But does the GT-RS peak at 20 and then drop off 4-5psi like the HG? Because if it holds all the way to RPM then that's probably all the GT-RS has got. If, on the other hand, you can find a way to make the HG hold 20psi to redline, then it'll see more top end. There's more factors than just the boost at play too...look at previous SS1PU results in this thread...they have cleared 260 in the past.

I'm not so sure about murdering the HG for response either, I'll wait for my results to compare, because my SS1PU was coming on very early in it's untuned state. Didn't feel much laggier than the standard turbo!

This is a bit of a moot point though, you're saying your turbo that had less top end but was more responsive?

That is generally how it is though, don't be surprised if you actually lose some response when the car is tuned. It will be running a bit rich and retarded which will help get it on boost, when they iron that out of the tune then you generally lose some response.

[Birds]

Why do they iron that out of the tune if it helps to get on boost quicker?

[zebra]

lol at rich and retard bringing a turbo on sooner....

[Birds]

I think that's a mix of words, he's referring to the lack of a lean and advanced timing tune rather than the overboost protection R&R lol.

[Hanaldo]

Why do they iron that out of the tune if it helps to get on boost quicker?

It's slower. Might get the turbo on boost quicker, but it makes less power.

Or so it was explained to me.

lol at rich and retard bringing a turbo on sooner....

I think that's a mix of words, he's referring to the lack of a lean and advanced timing tune rather than the overboost protection R&R lol.

This haha, was referring to rich and retard in a general sense, not the protection sense.

[zebra]

Lean and retard will bring a turbo on sooner

The rather toasty exhaust gasses spin the turbine harder than the cooler egts a rich mix will give

[Hanaldo]

Yes, perhaps I'm mistaken with rich vs lean, lean makes more sense.

[ARTZ]

He is talking a HKS GT-RS kit

which I will say, that starting from sctrach isnt that expensive

say 1500 for the SS1, 200odd for a dump pipe, 300 for an intake pipe, new water oil lines etc 150-200 (not a nessesity) and it it will fit 100% the first time everytime.

So yes its more expensive by say $1000, but to some it is worth it.

Hypergear to me, seem to change turbo designs more than I change clothes, so it is really hard to compare to setups as everytime I jump into the thread there is a new version of an ATR43G3 etc

So while development is good, what about the poor buggers who bough a G3 a couple of years ago

This isnt a rant btw, but it really seems as though Hypergear are using teh end user as Beta testers.

Builds a new turbo, does a few dynos runs then releases them into the market.

What I would really love to see is some serious R&D done one just 1 or 2 turbos, so that they fit perfect and dont burn aircon drains, and get them to hold boost without weird little screw adjusters welded to the turbine hosuing.

For a small outfit they are doing very well.....to the RB25 guys.

But to be a serious contender in the turbo market some issues need to be addressed (see above)

It would be grreat to have an Aussie turbo manufacturer as the #1 choice for people with skylines rather than seemingly "I cant afford a Garrett/BW/Trust turbo so I'll get a HG" crowd

I would seriously look at a HG turbo for my new motor if they weren't based around RB25s only

But at this stage there are other options out there that are known to perform better for less money for my application.

TL;DR

I support Hypergear, but issues need to change

There is some truth to this and as much as I can admire HGs work, I cant help but feel that they maybe shooting themselves in the foot by constantly working on new technology for what is now an old car...lets face the RB is a dying breed and pretty soon its going to be cheaper and easier to just buy a crate engine chev to stick in it

Pretty much what can be done to skylines has been done, to the point where you can now buy a china copy of what was once a great turbo, that is comparable in quality for well under a grand.. There is no chance of cornering the market as there is just too many options for them and while you may have your niche market which is stock looking turbo upgrades its far from a cash cow unless you broaden your horizons to include a large variety of vehicles....

There is so many new cars on the market now with turbos, alot of fords and most of the mazda range are turbocharged now, not to mention all the turbo diesels out now and yes there is still imports. Sure they are FWD and dont make 300kw easily making them harder to brag about, not to mention the other issues like tunable ecus etc.. but they are popping up everywhere on the second hand market now, they do respond well to mods cause the engines are still fresh and best of all cops dont know what they're looking at when they pop the hood...

Think about it most of these are small trendy family or daily cars owned by middle class people, what better than a cheap easy upgrade turbo you can probably do yourself in the garage with a funky name like hypergear to give your daily runabout some extra poke to show off to your mates with..

This is where I would be focusing my efforts anyway, have the skills, the knowledge, the equipment, an awesome tuner and fresh ECU maker..put it all together and get in early or risk getting left behind..

[rondofj]

There is some truth to this and as much as I can admire HGs work, I cant help but feel that they maybe shooting themselves in the foot by constantly working on new technology for what is now an old car...lets face the RB is a dying breed and pretty soon its going to be cheaper and easier to just buy a crate engine chev to stick in it

Pretty much what can be done to skylines has been done, to the point where you can now buy a china copy of what was once a great turbo, that is comparable in quality for well under a grand.. There is no chance of cornering the market as there is just too many options for them and while you may have your niche market which is stock looking turbo upgrades its far from a cash cow unless you broaden your horizons to include a large variety of vehicles....

There is so many new cars on the market now with turbos, alot of fords and most of the mazda range are turbocharged now, not to mention all the turbo diesels out now and yes there is still imports. Sure they are FWD and dont make 300kw easily making them harder to brag about, not to mention the other issues like tunable ecus etc.. but they are popping up everywhere on the second hand market now, they do respond well to mods cause the engines are still fresh and best of all cops dont know what they're looking at when they pop the hood...

Think about it most of these are small trendy family or daily cars owned by middle class people, what better than a cheap easy upgrade turbo you can probably do yourself in the garage with a funky name like hypergear to give your daily runabout some extra poke to show off to your mates with..

This is where I would be focusing my efforts anyway, have the skills, the knowledge, the equipment, an awesome tuner and fresh ECU maker..put it all together and get in early or risk getting left behind..

Ahh now ARTZ is talking..instead of doing burnouts on an empty neighbourhood with dogs attacking his car.. Lol

[hypergear]

I didnt install the turbo or touch the actuator.

Im not afraid of running big boost on stock motors, u can tell from my own cars. 22psi rb26.

I love the midrange Nd power curve of the ss1. But it is tuned with a safety factor

please have a quick look at the actuator before tuning, because the actuator had to be removed from the turbo assembly before it can be installed. In many cases the installer thinks that Ive adjusted the actuator rod too short so they unloads the actuator for a easy hook on to the wastegate arm.

The previous SS1PU demo was sent to you with a 14psi actuator, and raised with a boost controller I believe. Does that give you better tunability compare to a starting point of 20psi?

Kasko please check my youtube video under: taosg2001 for preloading instructions and just check to make sure the gate is tightly shut by the actuator with about 3mms of preload. That will get even better response as the gate don't open as early. This should be the correct boost curve that matched mine:

I've tested 6 different combinations to make this turbo work that took over 5 month of period if you have a look at the results from failed earlier models. I don't test turbos on customers unless they've been told it is a prototype. I think my results would stand for the best as you can get out of it with best supporting mods, fresh engine and a tuner that is very familiar with the my whole setup.

[zebra]

There is some truth to this and as much as I can admire HGs work, I cant help but feel that they maybe shooting themselves in the foot by constantly working on new technology for what is now an old car...lets face the RB is a dying breed and pretty soon its going to be cheaper and easier to just buy a crate engine chev to stick in it

Pretty much what can be done to skylines has been done, to the point where you can now buy a china copy of what was once a great turbo, that is comparable in quality for well under a grand.. There is no chance of cornering the market as there is just too many options for them and while you may have your niche market which is stock looking turbo upgrades its far from a cash cow unless you broaden your horizons to include a large variety of vehicles....

There is so many new cars on the market now with turbos, alot of fords and most of the mazda range are turbocharged now, not to mention all the turbo diesels out now and yes there is still imports. Sure they are FWD and dont make 300kw easily making them harder to brag about, not to mention the other issues like tunable ecus etc.. but they are popping up everywhere on the second hand market now, they do respond well to mods cause the engines are still fresh and best of all cops dont know what they're looking at when they pop the hood...

Think about it most of these are small trendy family or daily cars owned by middle class people, what better than a cheap easy upgrade turbo you can probably do yourself in the garage with a funky name like hypergear to give your daily runabout some extra poke to show off to your mates with..

This is where I would be focusing my efforts anyway, have the skills, the knowledge, the equipment, an awesome tuner and fresh ECU maker..put it all together and get in early or risk getting left behind..

I agree, look at how little success APS had with their bolt on turbine hosuing for GT30's

sure lots of people grabed them early on, but they failed to live up to what everyone was hoping they would be (re: didnt make the power they should have)

How old is the HKS GT-RS kit now? and that would be the lastest big name turbo kit for RB25s, Trust/Greddy havent changed their kits in what 10 years or more.

These engines are not raced in big numbers in high end motorsport, unlike a small block Ford or Chev, which will always have lots of development thrown at them

Short of aftermarket heads for RB's as you said everything has been done, there just isnt much left in them, Parts are still rediculously expensive, I mean who pays $1000 for a pair of basic cams???? when a big name race cam for a Chev/Ford/Mopar will set you back less than $200, same with Pistons/Rods gaskets etc

Unless the prices or hardware drops dramaticly to fall in like with other engines than RB/JZ/4G/VG blah blah blah will be left to old men with too much money, much like old porsches

take Conrods for example $600 will buy you 6 china H-beams, by $400 will buy you 8 China H-beams for a v8...how does that work???

Simple, the Japanese Companies Overcharge like crazy so it makes slightly less expensive but not as good stuff appealing

Type in RB25 into Ebay, and look at how many China knock offs of everything there is....people know it is rubbish...but they still buy it because it is cool to have a done up import

Kinda rambling, here but my car when done will have about 2 Japanese parts on it, and they will either have come with the car or were laying in the shed..

So hence me saying I hope hypergear continue to sell turbos, same with Kando/Kinugawa because they are selling products line-ball with what people should be paying for a halfway decent turbo

So Stao, keep at it, but I would like to see the Turbine hosuing fixed...maybe have a look at getting your own cast and work more on the Generic side of things...not everyone has an RB25

[zebra]

Actually, going off what ARTZ said about econoboxes...

How cool would a late model Galant V6 turbo be with a couple of bigger bolt on turbos and a plug in ECU!!@!!!@!

[GTScotT]

So Stao, think this F1 car could gain anything if you put a 4" intake on its turbos? lol

Whats that like 2.5" yeah??

[ARTZ]

Ahh now ARTZ is talking..instead of doing burnouts on an empty neighbourhood with dogs attacking his car.. Lol

haha so you watched that video...Glad you liked it...

I agree, look at how little success APS had with their bolt on turbine hosuing for GT30's

These engines are not raced in big numbers in high end motorsport, unlike a small block Ford or Chev, which will always have lots of development thrown at them

Unless the prices or hardware drops dramaticly to fall in like with other engines than RB/JZ/4G/VG blah blah blah will be left to old men with too much money, much like old porsches

The Porsches bit made me lol...its funny cause its true..

Go looking for performance parts for skyline these days and half of it is discontinued, or like HKS turbos so ridiculously overpriced its not feasable.. Which leaves you either hunting for good s/h parts or buying copies from china..I mean who buys a "REAL" Greddy intake plenum anymore... but we are making more power now with copies than people were with the original stuff 10 years ago..

Those APS/AVO style housings do still sell quite well I have been told, (though could have been part of a sales pitch) they havent wasted time messing about with the design to make it better, they did enough R & D to make a workable sellable item then left it to sell and enjoyed the benefits while they worked on other ventures..Think of it like a turbo that has been pushed to to the point of deminishing returns..The original HG range was good and value for money, but putting so much time into this new product that the value has gone up considerably for what seems like very little gain, has kind of spoilt it..I mean even if it is a better turbo, the value isn't really there when I can get a brand new garrett for around the same price, it will have far better resale as it has a well recognized brand name and can be fitted to any engine..Alternatively I can just buy a Kando and throw it in the bin when im doen with it, but an ss1 can only really be bolted to a skyline so its use is limited..

Also no race win can be contributed to a turbo alone when there is so many other components that contribute to an overall result....

There is already a healthy range of HG turbos and as you say, maybe it would be better to broaden their horizons and work on a range of generic turbos..

Although I'm sure HG has learnt MANY valuable lessons in this R & D, and I probably shouldnt be carrying on telling them how to run their business in any case..

At the end of the day Stao is a devoted skyline nut more than many of us so deserves the respect..

[Mitcho_7]

I was always under the impression hypergear did turbos for other cars, but as this is a skyline forum, we only hear about skyline related turbos?

I guess I was wrong.

[ARTZ]

yeah he does, all we're saying is maybe it wouldn't hurt to do some R & D on some of those other cars as well..

Maybe they figure the market isnt worth it I dunno

[Rolls]

So Stao, think this F1 car could gain anything if you put a 4" intake on its turbos? lol

Whats that like 2.5" yeah??

I was always sceptical of the intake size being that critical.