Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[hy_rpm]

Where the vnt have variable Vaines/nozzles to guide air at the turbine

Which can be controlled to open and close with a actuator

Fnt nozzles are fixed so can't be controlled and are put on certain spots on the turbine housing to guide air on the turbine to help it spin quicker and faster

Driving my current turbo which is atr28g2 with fnt it's like chalk and cheese compared to kando td05h18g

Bottom end response is so much better seems to start spooling straight away on any throttle

Seems to pull as good as the td05 up top on 18psi vs atr28g2 is only on 15psi till I get it retuned maybe 22psi if the injectors can cope

Bottom end and light throttle is uncomparable

[GTScotT]

Yep, once you start to crack the throttle you can feel the turbo is gaining RPM much quicker than expected.

If your just cruising and try to flat foot it the cars not going to LEAP forward... Its still a sizable turbo, but, with a little encouragement you feel a LOT more torque than expected at lower RPMs - and it still has the big turbo Kaboom where its meant to.

Its a lot of win.

[Kinkstaah]

Its worth saying though there's starting to be a little bit of disconnect between Stao's "look completely stock hi flow" and these VNT ones which seem to require external gates, high mounts etc to really perform well - It'd be worth directly comparing these more recent results to the HTA Garretts and Precision items when it comes to stealth (i.e not) if you're Victorian.

Looking at the HTA 3076 result thread looks to be pretty similar to Stao's latest offerings, but having said that as the thread gets going it makes you sad if you bought a turbo from the page 200 era

[Lithium]

Does anyone have any pics of the FNT housing? I remember talking about that kind of idea years ago with mates over rums and we admittedly ruled it out due to lack of CBF/adventurousness - partly due to the idea that you'd need to make sure it was VERY sturdy etc. Have they been used for a good amount of km etc without problem? And are these turbos with this response journal or ball bearing?

Very interesting that the major manufacturers don't seem to do this as the concept is reasonably simple and it clearly seems to work nicely, again - full credit to Stao for trying new things to find ways of providing good overall performance for a decent price

Next thing, if it is reliable and does perform that well without issue - is there any option or consideration towards doing a custom modification to housings for "other" turbochargers to retrofit "FNT"? Ie, to TD05Hs/GT30s/whatever? Or any thoughts on that? Imagine the potential for an FNT HTA GT3076R... or even a VNT one, as the straight HTA GT3076R is only slightly behind the latest greatest VNT HG turbo in spool and matches it for power. Going by the improvement FNT and VNT gave to the HG turbos in terms of spool, the HTA could be moving near providing stock turbo response and potentially getting near hitting 400kw on full E85 with VNT... or at least GT2835 type spool with FNT? Am I completely off the rails here?

[GTScotT]

Kinkstaah perhaps you have not read beyond page 200 yourself... The newer highmount and VNT style turbos are not marketed as a replacement for the bolt on stuff.

Stao has actually reached reasonable limits of his bolt on housings and therefore advances in particular turbos are still relevant without the need to backpedal and re-showcase the bolt on aspect. IE if you want to buy a bolt on SS2 you can find a dyno sheet for a bolt on previous version, high mount previous version and then high mount latest. You can then make a reasonable determination on what to expect from the new version if you were to low mount it.

There is no need to compare the VNT turbos performance to the performance of a highmounted HTA and use the word stealth. Nobody has done a stealth HTA, Stao is not trying to better a turbo over twice the value of his own.

If you do like the HTA turbos I can link you to the thread, just ask.

[34GeeTeeTee]

Kinkstaah perhaps you have not read beyond page 200 yourself... The newer highmount and VNT style turbos are not marketed as a replacement for the bolt on stuff.

Stao has actually reached reasonable limits of his bolt on housings and therefore advances in particular turbos are still relevant without the need to backpedal and re-showcase the bolt on aspect. IE if you want to buy a bolt on SS2 you can find a dyno sheet for a bolt on previous version, high mount previous version and then high mount latest. You can then make a reasonable determination on what to expect from the new version if you were to low mount it.

There is no need to compare the VNT turbos performance to the performance of a highmounted HTA and use the word stealth. Nobody has done a stealth HTA, Stao is not trying to better a turbo over twice the value of his own.

If you do like the HTA turbos I can link you to the thread, just ask.

Awwwww lol.....

[GTScotT]

Awwwww lol.....

LOL just stating truth. The HTA is great, without delving into comparison its able to spool as well as the VNT unit with not more than a conventional T3 housing.

BUT, suddenly a wild attack appeared, and I had to use agility to remind people Stao is not out to take away your HTA thunder.... He merely recognizes that your result is at the pinnacle of RB performance and would like to implement what technology is available to him to try and get there also.

I am confident you agree, and wouldn't want someone shooting down Stao in such a manner either even if it was in the name of HTA glory.

[34GeeTeeTee]

LOL just stating truth. The HTA is great, without delving into comparison its able to spool as well as the VNT unit with not more than a conventional T3 housing.

BUT, suddenly a wild attack appeared, and I had to use agility to remind people Stao is not out to take away your HTA thunder.... He merely recognizes that your result is at the pinnacle of RB performance and would like to implement what technology is available to him to try and get there also.

I am confident you agree, and wouldn't want someone shooting down Stao in such a manner either even if it was in the name of HTA glory.

Oh, that was nothing to do with HTA vs Stao at all, it was you saying it wasn't stealth

What Stao has done is fantastic, i would give the turbo setup a punt based on his results if i wasn't so happy with what i have already

[Kinkstaah]

Kinkstaah perhaps you have not read beyond page 200 yourself... The newer highmount and VNT style turbos are not marketed as a replacement for the bolt on stuff.

Stao has actually reached reasonable limits of his bolt on housings and therefore advances in particular turbos are still relevant without the need to backpedal and re-showcase the bolt on aspect. IE if you want to buy a bolt on SS2 you can find a dyno sheet for a bolt on previous version, high mount previous version and then high mount latest. You can then make a reasonable determination on what to expect from the new version if you were to low mount it.

There is no need to compare the VNT turbos performance to the performance of a highmounted HTA and use the word stealth. Nobody has done a stealth HTA, Stao is not trying to better a turbo over twice the value of his own.

If you do like the HTA turbos I can link you to the thread, just ask.

I have read everything from the thread (and have actually bought two hypergear turbos myself)

However the original selling point of most things hypergear was really the highflow aspect, and later on the amazing performance whilst still retaining a stock look.

I realise the more recent ones aren't, and aren't marketted as such. I just said its worth comparing them with other things on the market as where initially the HG turbos were a one of a kind thing, they are evolving into an area where they can be directly compared with more conventional competitors and if you're looking to buy something that is a Hightmount, Externally Gated non-stock looking turbo it would be fair to compare HG's latest and Greatest directly with the HTA 3076 for example, which doesn't need VNT, or FNT, or what have you to achieve a crazily nice result - The thread is interesting though and of course the tech that Stao discovers will filter down into everything else he makes if/when it's applicable.

[GTScotT]

Haha but its not!

Whenever 6 boobs are in the proximity of my eyes I CANNOT help but stare

Mmmmm 6 boooobs..... thats 3 f**king paaaaaiirrs... Wait, what were we talking about?

[GTScotT]

I have read everything from the thread (and have actually bought two hypergear turbos myself)

However the original selling point of most things hypergear was really the highflow aspect, and later on the amazing performance whilst still retaining a stock look.

I realise the more recent ones aren't, and aren't marketted as such. I just said its worth comparing them with other things on the market as where initially the HG turbos were a one of a kind thing, they are evolving into an area where they can be directly compared with more conventional competitors and if you're looking to buy something that is a Hightmount, Externally Gated non-stock looking turbo it would be fair to compare HG's latest and Greatest directly with the HTA 3076 for example, which doesn't need VNT, or FNT, or what have you to achieve a crazily nice result - The thread is interesting though and of course the tech that Stao discovers will filter down into everything else he makes if/when it's applicable.

Stao has his bolt on stealth units, he has even recently made an extreme high output stock bolt on turbo... But he is also now producing turbos capable of more in higher detail setups. Not once has he marketed the two together, so I am failing to see the gripe.

If you want to compare HG turbos to HTA items the dyno sheets are freely available for your perusal.

[34GeeTeeTee]

Haha but its not!

Whenever 6 boobs are in the proximity of my eyes I CANNOT help but stare

Mmmmm 6 boooobs..... thats 3 f**king paaaaaiirrs... Wait, what were we talking about?

I have no idea what the topic is...................... But do continue!

[Kinkstaah]

All I was saying is that it'd pay to look into it, and if there is one thing people can be critical of Stao for doing its not quite clarifying what is exactly going on with his turbo range, and it can be easy to be confused if you skip from page 200 to page 400 (lol) and suddenly all the dyno results look different. As mentioned before, these general catagories of turbo should be made somewhat clearer/easier to find for people to avoid confusion.

Also: Boobs.

[34GeeTeeTee]

All I was saying is that it'd pay to look into it, and if there is one thing people can be critical of Stao for doing its not quite clarifying what is exactly going on with his turbo range, and it can be easy to be confused if you skip from page 200 to page 400 (lol) and suddenly all the dyno results look different. As mentioned before, these general catagories of turbo should be made somewhat clearer/easier to find for people to avoid confusion.

Also: Boobs.

If the people aren't putting in the effort to research them properly then its their problem, i think the thread is pretty clear and most of the info is available to see.

Anyway, i think the thread is getting off topic a tad and we should let Stao continue what he does best, designing turbos! Its the best thing the SAU community could ask for having someone willing to put in the time and money to work out the best cost effective option for most.... I LOVE my HTA but do enjoy keeping tabs with what is happening in here as its awesome stuff!

[hypergear]

One more thing is The other car which some of yous are comparing with has cams and cam gears with much higher boost Level. Which means I will not be able to reach his result using his turbo, how ever he should he able to beat my result using my turbo.

[34GeeTeeTee]

One more thing is The other car which some of yous are comparing with has cams and cam gears with much higher boost Level. Which means I will not be able to reach his result using his turbo, how ever he should he able to beat my result using my turbo.

Good point Stao, in saying that it would be Poncams really being the difference as i believe nothing was done with the cam gear

[GTScotT]

Lol you can't skip 200 pages worth of reading man... The whole thing about Hypergear is the constant development... The trials and testings, new innovations and efforts put in to improve a product with a very entry level price tag.

If the people aren't putting in the effort to research them properly then its their problem, i think the thread is pretty clear and most of the info is available to see.

Anyway, i think the thread is getting off topic a tad and we should let Stao continue what he does best, designing turbos! Its the best thing the SAU community could ask for having someone willing to put in the time and money to work out the best cost effective option for most.... I LOVE my HTA but do enjoy keeping tabs with what is happening in here as its awesome stuff!

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[GTScotT]

Good point Stao, in saying that it would be Poncams really being the difference as i believe nothing was done with the cam gear

As a point here: mine weren't touched either (Unigroup tune). Goes to show provided the motor is correctly timed (back to Nissan's zero) the Poncams are an awesome drop in upgrade

[Lithium]

One more thing is The other car which some of yous are comparing with has cams and cam gears with much higher boost Level. Which means I will not be able to reach his result using his turbo, how ever he should he able to beat my result using my turbo.

I am still unconvinced your dyno tests are even parity with his results though so its not apples and apples, well at least I don't view it that way at this stage - this isn't a knock or anything, the results are clearly awesome... but again unless it's all on the same dyno then it is not directly comparable. A browse over JEM's dyno results shows that a typical GT3582R (as far as I know an equal or bigger turbo than any of the ones you are using?) on stock cams and E85 on that dyno makes under 360kw on similar boost to what yours is making ~400kw with a similar engine setup. Unless there are other sneaky mods (separate from the turbo) which result in more power being made, the numbers indicate that a stock cam RB25 with any turbo will not make near 400kw without having a huge amount of boost thrown at it. Unless I am missing something, at the boost levels you are talking about no turbo in the world is going to make those numbers happen with stock cams on an RB25 running EFlex on JEM's dyno. The turbo isn't going to make the engine flow more than it can flow at a given pressure ratio.

Have a look through to get a gauge of what setups make at JEM so you can judge for yourself: http://www.justenginemanagement.com/index.php/dyno-diary

Or an example of a GT35 setup on stock cams and E85:

Jan Nissan R34 GT Haltech PS2000 E85-full flex RB25DET stock GT35 fmic, exh, ebc, fuel sys, plenum, 23-21psi 333kw

A typical pump gas figure on 20-22psi for a built RB26 with GT2860-5s at JEM is 330-350kw while it is around 370kw @ Chequered (reference from someone saying Trent's reads the same as other dynos here: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/251820-got-over-400kw-atw/page-81#entry6300552). The way I see it, it indicates 34GeeTeeTee would make >400kw at Chequered.

[Edit: I didn't hunt all that down to debate here btw, I spent some time analysing results etc to help 34GeeTeeTee choose turbos and work out expectations when he was deciding what to get and I had to make sense of how the different dynos over there read to help him build expectations from a known flow rate... and predicted the result within a few kw so feel I'm not far off the mark ]

[scotty nm35]

What if JEM's dyno reads higher and they simply don't like tuning road cars that close to the limit? As you say, without both cars on the same dyno at the same time there are too many variables. Even strapping the cars down hard hurts performance on the rollers. I don't think Trents dyno is overly happy, perhaps within 10kw of everyone elses at that power, which isn't bad for a hubber.

Stao was having all sorts of issues getting a decent power output with the stock mani, once he changed it really opened up the top end, no matter the turbo.