Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[hypergear]

Been pimping turbos for few customers lately. Funny many sprayed the comp cover black after the installation of turbocharger which makes it half white.

Below is an high flowed version for a G3 turbocharger for Jet_R31. Apparently it was making 260rwkws on an Auto Stagea externally gated from turbine housing on stock exhaust manifold, been very responsive. Customer wants more power and bit of extra lag don't matter.

We know Auto trans usually makes 15% less power to manual and the extra weight of the chassis results higher engine load, It increases discharging temp and velocity and making the turbocharger spool faster as if its fitted to a Skyline.

Power wise might be slightly less due to the heat, How ever running external it does not make a significant difference. I have a feeling that the compressor might be towards it maximum efficiency at the boost level given, So I have used one of my older SS3 billet prototype wheel instead, and replaced the older 60mm (current version is in 64mm) turbine with an larger 75mm item. By doing so compressor flow is increased while keeping the turbine end cool. Should result in more power and better torque at same boost level.

Now all pimped in black and looking good:

Turbine:

[blah_blah]

I found myself comparing your result to 34 GeeTeeTee's result with the FP HTA 3076, and while yours "looks" laggier for the power made (385 vs 391) I was initially disappointed until I realised the 3076 result is running 28-24psi boost vs 22 falling down to 18.

Will be very interesting to see how it operates with more boost wound into it. I'm keen to try mine. Stao please send it to OTR

Also got to remember mine is still internal gate and standard side mount manifold position.

Not high mount and external gate

[Lithium]

I found myself comparing your result to 34 GeeTeeTee's result with the FP HTA 3076, and while yours "looks" laggier for the power made (385 vs 391) I was initially disappointed until I realised the 3076 result is running 28-24psi boost vs 22 falling down to 18.

This is a lot laggier, and is on a dyno that reads higher that what Mat's result was reading on - but it's also internally gated etc, you really can't compare the two and draw any realistic conclusions other than that this turbo is laggier. I'd love to see 34GeeTeeTee's on a Dynapack to see how much over 400kw it'd make! Might not be much, but would be interesting.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Something random, man the customer service at Adaptronic is amazing!

I am having some small issues with my Adaptronic ECU with the connectivity and idle closed loop, Andy replied in 30 minutes and gave me unreleased software to try and fix the issue.

[asps91]

cbfed going through almost 500 pages lol but can you do anything to the garrett gt3582r to increase its power capability? Its got the .82 rear housing. Thanks

[hypergear]

Yes I can possibly making it to support close to 500rwkws on E85 on an external gated setup. How ever I can not warranty that turbocharger.

[Kinkstaah]

This is a lot laggier, and is on a dyno that reads higher that what Mat's result was reading on - but it's also internally gated etc, you really can't compare the two and draw any realistic conclusions other than that this turbo is laggier. I'd love to see 34GeeTeeTee's on a Dynapack to see how much over 400kw it'd make! Might not be much, but would be interesting.

It isn't reaaallly much laggier if you compare the power curves. Mat's is a little better between 4000-4500 RPM, but after that the curves are very similar.

Keeping in mind Mat's is running 28 PSI in that range and Tony's is running 22, 'more power' in that region is not hard to believe.

In addition to that, Tony's is a 3582 spec turbo vs a 3076, so it's 'expected'

Also how long do people really spend between 4000 and 4500 rpm? For me this is range of RPM I am in for about 0.01s of time, so does it really make much any difference?

See also IWG vs EWG. If Tony had an EWG and 28PSI running through it, i'd be really interested to compare the Hypergear unit to say, a FP HTA 3582 spec unit, it'd have to be in the same 'general' ballpark.

Always tricky with different car, different dyno, different tuner, different state, but if you overlay the graphs in excel there's not a real tangibly huge difference.

[Lithium]

It isn't reaaallly much laggier if you compare the power curves. Mat's is a little better between 4000-4500 RPM, but after that the curves are very similar

Yes it is. At a glance it gives away near 150kw at 4000rpm! That's in the territory of twice the power at rpm you will REALLY notice it, that's not a little better. Catching up from 4000-4500rpm is where it's finally getting up to full boost.

Also how long do people really spend between 4000 and 4500 rpm? For me this is range of RPM I am in for about 0.01s of time, so does it really make much any difference?

This is all subjective, if you are happy with that lag then it's a brilliant deal - but realistically, if you are asking me that question seriously... post a thread asking everyone how much time they spend driving under 4500rpm. If you happy with that lag, then pressure Mat into putting an HTA3582 onto his car and wind that up onto kill - then the lag will be more comparable, but the power won't (if his motor survives haha).

Always tricky with different car, different dyno, different tuner, different state, but if you overlay the graphs in excel there's not a real tangibly huge difference.

Agree with most of that, which is why I said you shouldn't be comparing them - I am not knocking this HG turbo, it's a different setup altogether on a different dyno, I think you are selling BOTH turbos short in ways by comparing them. The point I disagree with is the Excel comparison, Mat's turbo would give the HG a thumping until the HG was up in the rpm. It is not the turbo to be comparing with this turbo at all - only reason it seems to make sense is the HG turbo made almost as much power (and no doubt the wheels are capable of moving more air).

In my opinion it's a stupid comparison.

[Kinkstaah]

Why? Plotting the power graphs seems to be as good a comparison as any, you can't compare one dyno with another unless someone takes the car to both which is unlikely as they're in different states.

Saying that you can't plot them together in excel is like saying you can't pay attention to ANY dyno result as the data isn't conclusive. I get that it isn't RIGIDLY conclusive, but if you can't look at/compare dyno results then why even print/post them?

[hypergear]

The ATR43SS4 is a big 3582 equivalent turbo in a .82 rear, it has all the behaviors of a large turbocharger. So the maximum power wise its obvious the bigger turbo will produce more and smaller turbo has better response.

[Lithium]

Saying that you can't plot them together in excel is like saying you can't pay attention to ANY dyno result as the data isn't conclusive. I get that it isn't RIGIDLY conclusive, but if you can't look at/compare dyno results then why even print/post them?

I'm not talking just dynos - I am talking the fact that the HG turbo has larger wheels, on a different engine setup, not externally gated etc. There are things that will work for and against each turbo so much that you are comparing apples and oranges to find out which is the better banana. I'm not going to compare them on an Excel spreadsheet/whatever, I reckon it'll make the Hypergear look bad and in this situation I don't think that's a fair representation of what Stao has built.

The ATR43SS4 is a big 3582 equivalent turbo in a .82 rear, it has all the behaviors of a large turbocharger. So the maximum power wise its obvious the bigger turbo will produce more and smaller turbo has better response.

[jet_r31]

The G3 made 270rwkw on 17psi (auto)Stao, with a leaking blowoff valve ...on the lowest reading dyno in the state, its nicknamed the heartbreaker..lol

comparable to about 290rwkw on the other DD dynos around the place here.

be interesting to see what this does..

cheers

darren

Edited March 19, 2014 by jet_r31

[hypergear]

The lower reading is with air box lid on. I've been told having the lid cause a lose of 3psi of boost.

Been working on my new SR turbo this weekend. Knowing the .64 might be restrictive up top, how ever I still want to keep it for its response, so I've grind down a larger exhaust wheel to suit the T28 bearing housing. Below is still the SS1.5 now running a much larger rear.

Some updates on the SS15 prototype. It actually behaved like been expected. Managed to max out the compressor using way less boost. The engine is much happier and been able to take more timing up top. Down side is slightly laggier due to larger exhaust wheel.

The most it made was 280rwkws peeked 26psi. Which at 21psi it managed to reach 270rwkws which was what the original version at using 25psi of boost. Pretty happy out come. Dyno tuned at Chequrered tuning based on pump 98 fuel.

Purple and thick blue is from the new SS1.5 today.

Thin faded blue is from the original SS1.5

[hy_rpm]

Not bad but only gained 10kw with 1more psi and 2-300rpm lag penalty

Will see how the .86 goes on mine

Going to install it on the weekend and hopefully tune in 2-3 weeks

What actuator did you use Tao as boost was dropping a fair bit

[hypergear]

Well its still the same compressor. All I did was changing the turbine.

Main goal was reaching more power on less boost. Using the new turbine I'm been able to get 270rwkws based on 21psi while older turbine would required 25psi.

The advantage is very useful when comes to stock engines that can't handel so much boost.

Its holding pretty flat till 20psi. And then started to drop, I believe this compressor wheel is too small supplying 20psi to the engine after certain rpms.

I'm developing an CBB turbo for it at moment. Looking to make some thing crazy.

[hy_rpm]

Awesome your a true turbo specialist trying out a lot of new turbos

A lot of r&d and testing to get the best result for the customer

[hy_rpm]

Also I'm not sure if the compressor will be out of flow as std evo 9 turbos which are a td05h16g6 and have a smaller compressor have no problem holding 25psi on a 4g63 till redline

[hypergear]

The Evo high flow has a SS2 compressor. They are awesome. Its going on to it next. But I'm going to try a huge turbine.

[hy_rpm]

No not talking about it once you hiflowed it before then also people have plenty on std evos with the cast std one same thing

Even people in USA have crankef them up to 28-30psi on the same small turbo

[Lithium]

I don't think they tend to hold that into the high rpm with unmodded 16G6s, its more like they peak at 30psi and it bleeds back to mid/low 20s. Bare in mind that Stao's car has bigger cams etc as well, so will be moving more air at a given boost level at high rpm than a typical stock 2litre.

In saying that, it seems that the 16G6s are seriously underestimated by a lot of people - as I've said in another thread, we easily ran out of injector (at 55psi base pressure on ID1000s with E85) using a Kando TD05 16G6 (TD06 comp housing version) at 20psi, enough power to get ~120mph trap speeds and the turbo still has more to give. The SS2 is clearly a bigger higher flowing unit, though.