Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[inmaniac]

3 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Nah, that's rubbish. It's not boost that blows apart motors, it's timing and or torque.

I "had" a 300 000+ motor running with 1.8bar worth of boost for a good amount of time and thrashed regularly at the track too. It died about 3 years later lol

Lol good to know.

Ok thanks for the input. I'll chat through the options with Tao and see where I land.

Edit: Was that standard internals Dose? I'm running all standard including HG

Edited April 9, 2017 by inmaniac
Extra Question

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

39 minutes ago, inmaniac said:

Lol good to know.

Ok thanks for the input. I'll chat through the options with Tao and see where I land.

Edit: Was that standard internals Dose? I'm running all standard including HG

Completely standard internals, even the OEM head gasket. However I did have some coolant being pushed out so I installed new ARP head studs as a band aid solution. 

Damage was already done, but the motor lasted another year of heavy track abuse, left plenty of mental shavings in the sump too! But yeah 18psi, street use with the occasional drag strip will last ages if you tuner has a clue about tuning

 

[hypergear]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:54 PM, inmaniac said:

Hey guys.

Just wondering who here has experience with the standard "G2" high flow and what your real world results were?

Cheers!

G2 is engineered to work with stock ecu and injectors. You can still get over 240rwkws with it on decent mods and more boost. Dyno below shown customers result of 222rwkws maxing factory injectors on 13psi.

 

[CEF33Y]

How's the RB20 experiment going Tao?

[iruvyouskyrine]

Also interested. So close to pulling the trigger on a GTX3067 but if you have some solid RB20 results I may wait

[hypergear]

My Rb20det is hitting a brick wall at 215rwkws. I've installed the best possible mods to not cause any flow restrictions, and it doesn't like to make power. So far I've dynoed turbos in equivalents of: GT2871, GTX2864, GT3071, GT3076. and the most power it would make was 215rwkws with a 3076 equivalent. I've also spent alot of timing fixing the car and made sure all components runs correctly. Be aware of Ebay cam gears, Mine "0" degrees out of so called "HKS" brand is actually -5.  

Car's a GTS4. shown 188,000KMs, but drives solid. Silver top engine. The power band sort of falls into range of Rb20det P98 figures out of Trent's dyno. There are few odd ones that made pretty high power for the turbo size, I'm curious to know if its because their engines are healthier or if it had some sort of cams / head upgraded in their long years of running.

For some odd reasons RB20dets doesn't like timing in mid range. Mine's down to 6 degrees around 4000RPM, but happy taking 13 degrees up top when there is 20psi of boost making the car feel torque less down low.  E85 fixes that problem, and shift the whole power curve 1000RPM to the left with heaps more up top. 

At moment I'm fitting up a set of Kenford cams. I hope this will make a difference to power and I don't think there are anything else that I can do other wise. 

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Should hold a timing gun when it's load held on the dyno, see if the timing isn't fluctuating due to a bad cas or timing belt deflection. 

[t_revz]

^^ agreed. I had a bad Cas that fluctuated like this at every RPM and wouldn't take much timing and miss fired at 18psi. Adjusted belt several times but problem remained. 2nd hand CAS fixed it

[hypergear]

That was the first item came in mind, Trent tested said CAS is fine. I will check again when its back on dyno next.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

What you need to do is say at X load and Y RPM, make all the surround areas all 10 degrees of timing.. then load hold the dyno at roughly that RPM and that load point/area then shine a timing gun at the motor and see if it's showing the same timing as per prescribed at on the timing map.

Another possible thing that "may" have happened, check the woodruff key on the crank. It might have snapped off and both your cams vs. crank is off. I have seen it happen with my own eyes on a SR I worked on.

[R_34]

Can't say about other RB20 but mine loves timing, at 13psi he's given mid 30's up top, and when I had a functioning boost controller he was mid 20's at 20psi on PULP98.

[iruvyouskyrine]

58 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

What you need to do is say at X load and Y RPM, make all the surround areas all 10 degrees of timing.. then load hold the dyno at roughly that RPM and that load point/area then shine a timing gun at the motor and see if it's showing the same timing as per prescribed at on the timing map.

Another possible thing that "may" have happened, check the woodruff key on the crank. It might have snapped off and both your cams vs. crank is off. I have seen it happen with my own eyes on a SR I worked on.

How would the harmmonic balancer be driving still if no woodruff key? I am confuse

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

^ woodruff snaps, then crank/cam drive sprocket moves just enough and jams itself with the remaining woodruff. You'll be surprised

[iruvyouskyrine]

Ahh yeah I get you!

[hypergear]

Cars at Seven Auto motive to get those cams in, will keep everyone updated once its running.

I will keep this post upated with my FB updates. fist our team took winning trophy on Vic time attack 1.35.27 last week. footage:

 

 

Mr Oversteer was ranked 3rd this time due to Alternator problems:

 

[inmaniac]

On 09/04/2017 at 5:24 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Nah, that's rubbish. It's not boost that blows apart motors, it's timing and or torque.

I "had" a 300 000+ motor running with 1.8bar worth of boost for a good amount of time and thrashed regularly at the track too. It died about 3 years later lol

In case you were curious, after speaking with Toshi (who was ultra conservative, and against the G3 @ 18psi on my engine) and Tao, we came up with a hybrid that was halfway between a G2 and G3 high flow. It's going to have a larger compressor wheel than a G2 but use an OEM wastegate.

The reasoning was that I didn't want to have the bigger turbo with such a high minimum boost pressure on my daily. Adding to this, my goal was rather conservative, aiming for a responsive 240rwkw+ on P98.

I have a feeling I'll regret not going bigger in future haha but for now I'm sure this will be fine  I also trust Toshi's judgement 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Many ways to skin a cat, Toshi likes to tune with loads of timing, loads of fuel but not too much boost. He takes the "let's throw in heaps of fuel so it won't knock" approach - which is completely fine however in the event IATs increase or you use a bad batch of fuel things can end in unfavourable ways.

[inmaniac]

18 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Many ways to skin a cat, Toshi likes to tune with loads of timing, loads of fuel but not too much boost. He takes the "let's throw in heaps of fuel so it won't knock" approach - which is completely fine however in the event IATs increase or you use a bad batch of fuel things can end in unfavourable ways.

Yeah gotcha.

Well I won't get everything on and tuned for about a month (stupid busy at work atm sadly) but I'll post here when it's done, we'll see how we go

[-S-]

Many ways to skin a cat, Toshi likes to tune with loads of timing, loads of fuel but not too much boost. He takes the "let's throw in heaps of fuel so it won't knock" approach - which is completely fine however in the event IATs increase or you use a bad batch of fuel things can end in unfavourable ways.

Which is reliable? Increasing boost or add timing/fuel or a little bit of both?

[GTSBoy]

Turbo cars make power from boost, not timing.