Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[DVS JEZ]

Can every one please post up prints of their timing map for their atr43 series turbocharger. That would help us determine which tuner might be better to go for as well as how power and response responded refer to different tunes.

TAO this is not a very good thing to do, how can an ignition map show u which tuner to go to?

But on this we need to know which part of the map each car is using.

Sarge my brand new Dyno Dynamics dyno should be at my place next week

[rondofj]

Sarge my brand new Dyno Dynamics dyno should be at my place next week

Thats great news cos I'll be heading up ur way in a few months to fit in my injectors, Z32 and turbo....which turbo i dunno yet..

[SargeRX8]

TAO this is not a very good thing to do, how can an ignition map show u which tuner to go to?

But on this we need to know which part of the map each car is using.

Sarge my brand new Dyno Dynamics dyno should be at my place next week

This is true, JEZ and I were speaking about this when he was tuning my car. Dialing in timing, I can do that, getting it right though, that is a different matter all together and each car will take different timing. I don't think it's a good way to judge tuner but it's an awesome way to compare turbos and see what people with the same turbo are pushing.

If you get the dyno before the next pie cruise, I'll come up.

[hypergear]

A customer and his mate both bought a G3 2 weeks ago, Running identical mods tuned at two different tuners, one came back with 287rwkws on 18psi and the other one's barely making 201rwkws on 22psi. Plus I've had customers came in with bad tunes and a proper tunes makes huge difference in Power, response, reliability and drivability.

I'm hopping to produce a rather accurate timing table (not sure if possible) that every customer can referring to depending on turbo models, get rather close results with similar mods.

[DVS JEZ]

Timing tables can be used as a guide only, if u give people a timing table to run and it pops the engine it can be pointed to u.

Exhaust and intake restrictions can cause low power due to being knock limited, but once the restiction is resolved more timing/power can be made.

I understand what ur trying to do but tread lightly with it.

Q. The low powered G3, did they try dropping the exhaust to check for a restriction? What else was done to diagnose the low power? Did they try a much lower boost ?

[Rolls]

I'm hopping to produce a rather accurate timing table (not sure if possible) that every customer can referring to depending on turbo models, get rather close results with similar mods.

Assuming their cars are all in the same state of order, air leaks, restrictions etc could play havoc with it. Would want to use the map as a tuning guide of what SHOULD be capable at best.

[Trozzle]

[siksII]

I know boost doesn't relate directly to power, but tons of cars are making way more than that with that kinda boost.

And how does one have too much boost down low?

Boost ramps up from around 10psi to 21psi extremely aggressively, this is what makes it want to ping.

Do a run without the cat.

I do not recommend running no cat on the road as its ILLEGAL i dont do anything illegal

Jez, we tuned the car in 'track spec' without a cat

I'd like to see a graph...15-20rwkw isn't difficult to find if there's an underlying issue for it, of which there could be many. The age and wear of your engine alone means you may not be guaranteed the 260-270rwkw that a healthier engine could produce.

Do you have a baseline figure sik, i.e. a dyno run before turbo upgrade? If so, at what PSI? Are you running a 3" metal intake?

Birds - It had stock turbo running the usual 180rwkw at 9psi before. I had the motor compression tested and also tested on the dyno for off boost performance and its 100%. Current tuner also confirmed the motor feels perfect.

I have a 3inch custom intake, thats not an issue.

I probably check the injectors, intake pipe (make sure its metal 3 inch), cooler, and drop the exhaust for few more runs, also check the ss1PU's timing table for mapping. Was the rubber gasket replaced with a metal gasket or another rubber one?

Injectors - brand new

Cooler - Genuine greddy, I clean and check it every couple of years, was making normal power with stock turbo

-Exhaust, who knows but both tuners and my mechanic said it should be fine with that exhaust, its a 80mm Apexi with only 1 muffler

-Timing - sorry but i dont believe in your method of referencing your timing table, every setup it is a little different, the only time to perhaps reference your timing table would be if its ridiculously different to expected

-Rubber gasket was replaced with a rubber one with metal surround so it cannot blow out. Got the entire intake system pressurised, 100% sure no leaks there

My views about..

The power issue:

-I believe around 10rwkw is being lost compared to the average tuned car due to the tyres. Im running Federal 595 RSRs, they are very soft and sticky when hot. A mate of mine tested his car with then, tuner said its down on power blah blah and then he changed to normal tyres, went back, made normal power, around 10rwkw more.

-The reference graph showing 280rwkw is deceptive, without going into detail I dont believe this is and accurate reflection of how much power the turbo will make for most customers, I did not expect the car to make 280. Even Stao himself is now saying it will make around 260 and I believe this is closer to the mark for this turbo and the majority of cars/dynos.

-There is something else holding back the power on my car but I dont know what it is yet. I believe this is so because on the hypergear reference dyno graph, the turbo/power tapers off at 17psi@5500rpm. If you check my power graph you can see mine only tapers off at around 17psi@6800rpm, the turbo does not max out in the same way, it has more to give.

Driving experience:

I dont like linear power delivery, I wanted a turbo that ramps up hard and feels aggressive and challenging to drive. This is far more fun and entertaining and exciting for me compared to a lame linear power delivery. This turbo most definitely delivers what I wanted. In terms of the driving experience, this turbo is exactly what I wanted. The car feels exciting and pretty hardcore to drive.

-Driveability is good below 3000 but not much is going on.

-3000 to 4000rpm the spooling sound is awesome and the car starts pulling

-4000 to 5000 the rush and g force is mad, in traffic I naturally tend to shift at 5000 max since the acceleration is so aggressive up to that point.

-5000 onwards is just a mad pull, if you shift up at the redline in each gear, 4th gear feels like it revs out just as quick at 3rd.. it just doesnt stop pulling. Havent wound out 5th (yet) but it still pulls hard in 5th!

I have full traction in 1st most of the time and the g force when coming onto boost really pushes you back in the seat. Thank you RSRs and mechanical diff!

I took a video where a friend takes off normally and shifts slow into second, revving it out in each gear. Having a closer look at it, I realised that even with the slow takeoff and shifts we hit 100 in 5.x seconds! Ill need to hook up the pbox and do some testing

I have been in plenty of cars with similar power levels and to be honest although the graph shows 242rwkw, it feels like more than that on the road.

Moving forward..

I would like to try the lower pressure actuator and also run it with normal tyres to see what difference it makes. I would also like to try running it without the cat back to see if that is restriction.

In the meantime I am having a great time getting used to the car and look forward to every drive.

PM me if you are in Sydney and want to go for a ride.

[Rolls]

Post the video!

[Manuel Kasko]

Post the video!

+1 I would love to see the video

[siksII]

The window is open thats why the sound is kinda wavery:

I will make a proper videos for you guys soon

[Rolls]

Lol do you even have an exhaust on there haha?

Sounds like it has about 240kw to me, my car has 240kw and is similar in time to rev out, have a look.

edit: actually it only dynod at 232 on one dyno, 240 on another.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Rolls

[siksII]

Lol do you even have an exhaust on there haha?

Sounds like it has about 240kw to me, my car has 240kw and is similar in time to rev out, have a look.

edit: actually it only dynod at 232 on one dyno, 240 on another.

Haha actually you would be suprised, the exhaust is very quiet in normal driving, on the freeway you can barely hear it...however...when you unleash it screams!

Hard to compare with your vids due to the wheelspin, also i guess your car weighs less.

[SargeRX8]

Why do you all wheelspin so much for? My car doesn't come on hard but sounds as if it revs out quicker but doesn't wheel spin and Rolls, what happened at 7rpm where it just sat there before hitting the limiter? Was it wheel spinning?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=82af-c-1bVo&list=UUdWWN6LAjhhsnyeQIlhiNLQ&index=2&feature=plcp

19psi is a different story, more often than not 2nd gear is unusable.

This was my 224rwkw skyline. The sound is way out.

Edited February 28, 2012 by SargeRX8

[Rolls]

Was wheel spinning, I only have the stock VLSD which opens up pretty badly now. Had good tyres but they were quite hard from sitting in the shed for almost a year on ~50% tread.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Rolls

[hypergear]

Thanks for the feedbacks, most valuable to read.

For a bit history on the SS1PU, this turbo original came from the TR28kai (DC) which is capable of doing 220rwkws, moded in to TR29(DC) which made a laggy 240rwkws, then modified into ATR28G2 that is capable of much more responsive 270rwkws then into SS1 and now the SS1PU. Since it came from a responsive turbo that is capable of flowing 270rwkws originally, so the responsive 270~280rwkws with the ad of billet comp wheel and FNT turbine is pretty expected. The 242rwkws at give boost level is abit low compare to few others, it might has some thing holding it like your tuner said, I'm happy to swap a softer actuator to hook up an EBC with for further tuning and hopefully seeing around the 270~280rwkws margin once fully sorted.

The power delivery of a high flowed turbo is more linear. The SS1PU gains power and torque at much more rapid rate, like a normal athlete compare to athlete on steroid. lol

SS1PU is an on going project, there has been few evaluation models trailed after the current release how ever they failed to deliver better results. Im hopping to reach 300rwkws with current drivability.

[naga]

Hey Stao (& everyone else),

I bought a second hand OP6 highflow. Took it to Stao last year to get some advice about fitting it up. Stao thinks it was an old highflow he did due to the balancing marks. Stao said the CHRA is similar to a gt3076 or something. See attachments for pics.

Anyhow, I finally got around to fitting the turbo this week. Took it out for a test drive and I'm finding it super laggy. Hits 7psi at 4000rpm in 2nd gear, video here:

I just wanted to ask... is this normal?! I have checked the wastegate and put so much preload it shoots up to 10+psi. The reponse is still the same. I have blocked the wastegate feed and response didn't change. My thoughts now is that the turbo is just like this.

In comparison the stock turbo hits 7psi before 3000rpm:

Anyhow I don't have time to change it again, so i'll be driving this around a few months. What are my options if I want stock response with consistent 14psi? I saw earlier in this thread you can do a 2871 BB highflow or 2530 highflow. Will these turbos achieve good response?

[hypergear]

Well, not normal. Looks like the factory actuator's getting tired and the spring no longer has the strength to hold it shut against the exhaust manifold pressure and leaves boost to creep.

You can not preload the stock actuator. Turbo is definitly not like this. Should be able to have it fixed with a new actuator. I can have a play at it if you can drive pass. Ring before drop by.

[hypergear]

Another update:

We do very few SR20det turbos this days. This was sent in from Customer using our latest FNT turbined ATR28G1 turbo from a 92 model 180sx SR20det non VCT model. Fully standard with injectors, nistune, z32 afm, cooler and exhaust:

[Manuel Kasko]

Hey guys

Will it do any damage or cause any trouble if I put the SS1PU on without the nistune installed yet?

Trying to work out a way I can get the car to DVS without having to tow it up there.

I was thinking install the SS1PU and then get my brother to wire up a plug for my z32 so I can drive up with the stock AFM then just chuck the Z32 when I get there