Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[Harey]

Also we can install a big 32mm disc and machine 30mm internal gates @ $100 for who ever wants to get it done.

Hi Tao,

What is the advantage of doing this? Will it help run 18-20psi flat without your wastegate controller?

[Harey]

Ok done some more reading and the larger flapper valve will only help with boost creep issues. Whereas we are talking about boost drop issues.

[zebra]

I think that the boost drop issues with the high flows, is more to do with the comp housing rather than the turbine housing.

I remember that slides high flows use to do it aswel and so do the older GCG units.

I dont think the little Nissan comp housing can flow enough air for the target power level.

Have you guys checked on the dyno if its the gate that's creeping open...its easy enough to see.

I still think that its intake side related rather than the hot side of it all.

[Harey]

The thing is Hypergear use an extra fitting called a 'wastegate controller' which limits the wastegate from opening past a certain point. And this does fix the issue, so it is a hot side issue. Tao explained it as the actuator spring cannot handle the force involved. I dont understand why a stronger spring cant be fitted to compensate.

[zebra]

I saw that "wastegate controller" but it looks a bit dodge..what happens on a cold night and the gate needs to open further, etc etc, Stao offered to fit one to mine, but being that its a track car i cant risk having epic boost spike issues etc

[Harey]

Exactly right! This is my point as well.

It looks very dodge. A stronger actuator would fix everything! And be the proper way of doing it.

My previous car I ran straight off a 17psi actuator. It controlled boost very well and the cops couldnt see any form of boost control. Yes I could increase how hard the boost hit with an aftermarket boost controller but it was already very hard and it wasnt worth it to me for the extra defect risk.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Harey

[SS8_Gohan]

if a $4k HKS kit of very similar size can't hold boost flat to redline, what exactly are you expecting from a similar sized highflow unit at a quarter of the cost????????

.63 does NOT hold boost to redline. Simple as that, end of story. And that is by no means a slight on Stao's turbo's, they're great units. But ANY manufacturer, or similar specs, will get very similar boost curves. I don't see what the problem is really. Go out and buy a HKS 2835 ProS (or more like a GTRS which is comparable to most of the highflows we'd be buying) if you really want to try something different... it'll be pretty much the same story.

[zebra]

if a $4k HKS kit of very similar size can't hold boost flat to redline, what exactly are you expecting from a similar sized highflow unit at a quarter of the cost????????

.63 does NOT hold boost to redline. Simple as that, end of story. And that is by no means a slight on Stao's turbo's, they're great units. But ANY manufacturer, or similar specs, will get very similar boost curves. I don't see what the problem is really. Go out and buy a HKS 2835 ProS (or more like a GTRS which is comparable to most of the highflows we'd be buying) if you really want to try something different... it'll be pretty much the same story.

That pretty much sums it up, and as most people say an external gate really is the only option...no point on a highflow imo because that defeats the purpose, best option is to tune around it...ie add more timing as the boost drops off.

[Harey]

if a $4k HKS kit of very similar size can't hold boost flat to redline, what exactly are you expecting from a similar sized highflow unit at a quarter of the cost????????

.63 does NOT hold boost to redline. Simple as that, end of story. And that is by no means a slight on Stao's turbo's, they're great units. But ANY manufacturer, or similar specs, will get very similar boost curves. I don't see what the problem is really. Go out and buy a HKS 2835 ProS (or more like a GTRS which is comparable to most of the highflows we'd be buying) if you really want to try something different... it'll be pretty much the same story.

For a start we are talking about a PU hi flow which has the standard front but an aftermarket 0.82 rear. So not a 0.63.

He can get it to hold 20+psi to redline with his wastegate controller!! This means it is possible, its just the actuator is not strong enough to hold it on its own. By limiting the movement of the actuator arm, it does hold 20+psi to redline.

If it wasnt possible, no problem, its just I havent seen a reason from Hypergear and it seems they are designing there own modifications instead of sticking with the standard operation of an internally wastegated turbo.

[SS8_Gohan]

sorry, thought we were talking about .63's.... think i got confused between this thread and Ruffels thread..

never tried a .82 myself unfortunately.

[Crans]

The thing is Hypergear use an extra fitting called a 'wastegate controller' which limits the wastegate from opening past a certain point. And this does fix the issue, so it is a hot side issue. Tao explained it as the actuator spring cannot handle the force involved. I dont understand why a stronger spring cant be fitted to compensate.

If a stronger spring, say a 25psi spring was fitted then the boost will spike to 25psi(Alot more than you obviously want to run) and then slowly taper off to say 18psi. External gate, Stoa's gate controller or deal with the drop off are your only options

[hypergear]

Please focus some attention here:

The boost drop issues mentioned was based on a .63 housing. Not .82 turbine housing.

The wastegate controller is a ideal solution to actuator not been able to hold boost. and believe me I've tried the strongest Garrett Big can actuator that fits. It picked up more boost in mid range but doing the exact same thing towards red line.

Lets put it in this way. I installed a 20psi actautor on a .63 turbine housing with a GT3076 CHRA. It will hold boost fine till exhaust manifold pressure reaches certain level. So you will have 18psi by 4500RPM and have 15psi by 7000RPM.

Forget about the 20psi actuator. I will install a 60psi actuator out of a tractor. You will get uncontrollable boost creep reaching 60psi by 4500RPM and have a boost drop to maybe 30psi at 7000RPM.

People need to understand the pressure inside a turbine housing is NOT FIXED. and can not be controlled with a fixed Variable actuator spring. and Whats going to creep boost?? The stronger actuator you install the greater boost spike through out mid range you will have.

We have an example here. SSGOhan here's running a high flow with a OP6 housing with a 20psi actuator. See what’s happening here? his getting 18psi with no boost controller and experience a boost drop to 16psi at red line.

This is not due to cold side. Which is why people running .82 turbine housings experience none of very little boost drop compare to people running .63 housings, even thou the CHRA are in same size. and I'm the person implanted this theory as seeing HKS2530 have issues holding boost, This might be the case as its only running a 60mm comp wheel which we are not.

Wastegate controller.

I'm not interested in what it looks. I'm only interested to solve a problem. or realistically every one should be running an external gates.

Engine size and RPM is directly linked to manifold pressure. Wastegate controller is only made to act from 6000RPMs and on wards. Meaning I'm using a actuator to control my boost level pre 5000RPM and using the wastegate controller to act against a some how more fixed pressure range.

Also if it has been dyno adjusted to get a constant boost level with bonnet fully opened sitting on front of a massive cooling fan. Then its unlikely to get boost creep once bonnet shuts with engine bay temp 5 times higher then what it was.

Once again, people do not have to run the wastegate controller if they don't support my idea. I’m not charging extra for it and it can be taken off to create none affect.

Has it been tested. Yes it has been tested, Please refer to the 290rwkws high flow running 19psi to red line.

[Ruffels]

Stao, where could i obtain one of these 20psi actuators that SSgohan has?

also if you have tested proof of your wastegate controller, i should be free this week end to install it

[msports180]

Just a quick question, im thinking of building a RB25/30 for a GU patrol, i have a blown R33 turbo allready. With this highflowed would it be a good match for a 25/30? Im not after massive power as i will only be using stock injectors etc, im more after torque being its going into a 4wd. I just dont want to choke the engine.

Thanks.

[hypergear]

Just a quick question, im thinking of building a RB25/30 for a GU patrol, i have a blown R33 turbo allready. With this highflowed would it be a good match for a 25/30? Im not after massive power as i will only be using stock injectors etc, im more after torque being its going into a 4wd. I just dont want to choke the engine.

Thanks.

Stock R33 turbo is too small for a RB30det. We can do a PU high flow for it running .82 rear with ATR43G1 profile. will do about 450HP with excellent street response and plenty of torque for tolling.

[Harey]

Please focus some attention here:

The boost drop issues mentioned was based on a .63 housing. Not .82 turbine housing.

We have an example here. SSGOhan here's running a high flow with a OP6 housing with a 20psi actuator. See what’s happening here? his getting 18psi with no boost controller and experience a boost drop to 16psi at red line.

Wastegate controller.

Has it been tested. Yes it has been tested, Please refer to the 290rwkws high flow running 19psi to red line.

Thanks Tao for the detailed response. This is great info.

You mentioned at the start that the boost drop issues were only with a 0.63 housing and yet the tested example you use is the 290rwkw hiflow which I understand runs the 0.82 housing??

If there are no boost drop issues with the 0.82 housing why would you still use the wastegate controller with them?

[boostn0199]

At the end of the day IW even 0.82 experince boost drop of some kind of maybe 1 or 2 psi the most reliable way to hold it is external but if you dont want that then just put up with the slight drop as said before it is not the wrost thing to be dropping a few psi from 18 on a stock engine at redline and if stao has a solution with as he has said and it works well then use it but normal acutor and IW your always likely to drop abit of boost off at top

[Harey]

Why is it not possible to hold boost to redline using an internally gated 0.82 housing??

See below thread:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Gt...ge+can+actuator

Conan7772 has the classic problem of dropping a few psi to redline, he resolves this by fitting a higher pressure large can actuator. He manages to hold 22psi flat as f*ck I think was how he put it .

See dyno sheet (post 26 on page 2):

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/post-a257703-

Edited April 20, 2010 by Harey

[hypergear]

.82 don't drop. I've running 18psi flate with .82 housing. No problem at all.

[boostn0199]

So what the probelm here then if the .82 isnt dropping? THe Pu hiflow is 0.82 right?