Hypergear Turbochargers and High flow Services Development thread

[zebra]

...Im now more concered you are unable to answer the question....

[donmik]

So back to the original issue, after running some test with blah_blahs car tonight, I am confident in saying it is indeed the turbo which is not suited...

(By no means am I saying this turbo is no good, as a matter of fact I think the numbers it has put down are quite respectable)

The turbos biggest set back IN THIS APPLICATION I believe is the internal wastegate (which most of us assumed anyway)

I played around with the actuator preload with no improvements, and got to the point were I totally removed the line from the actuator and blocked it...

I still couldn't get it to hold over 24psi...

Which only indicates to me, the back pressure is far to high and forcing the gate open under its own pressure!

Thats all I have time for!

[scotty nm35]

The pressure will always be high in the manifold at full noise, and wastegate spring tension is critical to making big boost in internal gate applications, as you can't force the gate closed with boost like an external gate application.

Perhaps the best option would be to remove the turbo completely as that is the restriction you speak of.

[GTSBoy]

Let me ask this...

Do you even know what your talking about?

The fact that you are using big technical words only tells me you have no idea what you are talking about so you are just trying to confuse everyone...

Assuming you're talking to me, I think you will find I know more about aerodynamics in general, incompressible and compressible flow, modelling techniques (both physical and computer based), thermodynamics, heat transfer, chemistry, metallurgy and a whole bunch of other engineering than you could ever dream of. I am not saying anything about your capabilities, but I know my own.

[hypergear]

The SS2 is designed on standard engine head which it is still fine working with it. I'm not sure how much the head port would be throwing out its portion. Once again I guess you guys have proven the turbine housing is now too small for this rebuilt engine.

Few people mention about compressor over speed. I have a reading out of a early prototype of SS1PU which the compressor is too small and over speed. This is the curve:

As we can see the power curve drops sharply after compressor reaches it peek output. This usually happens to small turbochargers on large engines, with turbine end out flowing the compressor end. The symptom would be very fast response, and a nose dive after reaching the maximum power level of the specific compressor wheel. On the same time it also makes the intercooler extremely hot.

In current case, peek compressor out put is not archived, turbine end is extremely out, in conclusion this turbine end is out of flow. I believe some thing in 3582's turbine end would ease the problem. larger compressor can be used if more then 315rwkws is targeted, enlarging either ends of the turbocharger would result lag. Based on dyno data, the most efficient trade between power and response is 1KW : 10RPMs.

Like mentioned earlier I don't have experiences with ported Rb25det engines, So you can discuss with your engine builder in terms of what size rear housing you want it to have as well as both wheel sizes.

[donmik]

Very impressive!

However I wouldn't be so confident in saying others don't have a vast knowledge in these fields...

Whilst your theories maybe great on paper, they are merely that, theories! once applied in the real world factors change!

But im sure you know this as obviously you have machined and built your fair share of engines.

[blah_blah]

So to sum up tonight

Advice was sought from another reputable tuner of what the issue was.

He said that his initial impression was that it was the turbo, a test was done in accordance with the tuner to see if his theory was correct. I won't go into details of the test as this is not my area of expertise and i will just explain it wrong.

So case closed end of story, 2 experienced tuners and 1 experienced engine builder have reached the same conclusion that it is the turbo and that is the limiting factor on my setup.

The original intention of my post was to share my results and to see peoples opinions on what was going wrong. Now that we have found the answer I think its time to have tea scones and some Cadbury favourite chocolates.

In saying all this I still think the ss2 is a great turbo and hypergear does a great job

Edited July 31, 2013 by blah_blah

[hypergear]

Well, you will need to find out what size housings and wheels this new engine require, I should have most sizes you need.

[GTSBoy]

Very impressive!

However I wouldn't be so confident in saying others don't have a vast knowledge in these fields...

Whilst your theories maybe great on paper, they are merely that, theories! once applied in the real world factors change!

But im sure you know this as obviously you have machined and built your fair share of engines.

Which theories have I spouted that you disagree with?

And whose "vast knowledge" have I impugned?

And what real world factors are you able to take into consideration without measuring the effects of your porting? I know a couple of people who have very good reputations in this field who would beg to differ with your assertion that flow benches are useless.

[hypergear]

Add some pretty interesting update. This is a Kando TD05 16G that was sent in for a high flow job. Using our SS1.5 compressor wheel:

This is machined kando housing with original 16G comp wheel

With our SS1.5 compressor wheel:

I don't like the anti surge slots in this housing. how ever the owner wish to keep them for the looks. lol. it should pump up the original TD05's peek efficiency by roughly 10%.

[blah_blah]

Well, you will need to find out what size housings and wheels this new engine require, I should have most sizes you need.

Yeah Im still contemplating what to do. After 6 months of the car off the road I just want to enjoy it for a bit lol

Can't say I want to spend a day changing the turbo so soon after finally having the car on the road

I will just track the car as is for my event at Sandown next Sunday and short shift at 6,000 rpm to keep the motor and turbo happy.

But yes your help is always appreciated

[hypergear]

Hoo I've just upgraded xxxRicho's (John) turbo. You two are going to have a very good match. stick on a gopro and post us with some footage after the event.

[ssxRicho]

So to sum up tonight

Advice was sought from another reputable tuner of what the issue was.

He said that his initial impression was that it was the turbo, a test was done in accordance with the tuner to see if his theory was correct. I won't go into details of the test as this is not my area of expertise and i will just explain it wrong.

So case closed end of story, 2 experienced tuners and 1 experienced engine builder have reached the same conclusion that it is the turbo and that is the limiting factor on my setup.

The original intention of my post was to share my results and to see peoples opinions on what was going wrong. Now that we have found the answer I think its time to have tea scones and some Cadbury favourite chocolates.

In saying all this I still think the ss2 is a great turbo and hypergear does a great job

Result looks good to me, regardless of the engine build (which should give you increased reliability and ability to increase power down the track) this is a result on Pump 98. It's not exceptional, but not every result can be.

1. Get it tuned on E85 and see what the result comes out at.

2. Buy the cables and shit that allow you to change the map from PULP to E85, I'd imagine Trent will be able to steer you in the right direction.

3. Run the E85 map on the track and PULP daily, after-all you have spent good money on the engine (Dom has put a lot of time into it) and you want to protect it.

I can't imagine that lot costing more the $400. For total piece of mind absolutely worth it.

4. I'd just drive the farkn thing!

5. DRIVE IT!

[zebra]

6.drive it!

Gtsboy youre from sa yeah? I may know of one of those guys you are talking about.

He will most likely be doing my heads

[ARTZ]

The pressure will always be high in the manifold at full noise, and wastegate spring tension is critical to making big boost in internal gate applications, as you can't force the gate closed with boost like an external gate application.

Perhaps the best option would be to remove the turbo completely as that is the restriction you speak of.

remove floor pan too as this stops you from pushing the accelerator down further

So case closed end of story, 2 experienced tuners and 1 experienced engine builder and about 15 internet know it alls, have reached the same conclusion that it is the turbo and that is the limiting factor on my setup.

FYP...What about me and all the other internet geniuses that said the same thing!!!....nobody ever thanks us

[blah_blah]

Result looks good to me, regardless of the engine build (which should give you increased reliability and ability to increase power down the track) this is a result on Pump 98. It's not exceptional, but not every result can be.

1. Get it tuned on E85 and see what the result comes out at.

2. Buy the cables and shit that allow you to change the map from PULP to E85, I'd imagine Trent will be able to steer you in the right direction.

3. Run the E85 map on the track and PULP daily, after-all you have spent good money on the engine (Dom has put a lot of time into it) and you want to protect it.

I can't imagine that lot costing more the $400. For total piece of mind absolutely worth it.

4. I'd just drive the farkn thing!

5. DRIVE IT!

Yeah e85 is on the cards sometime in the future

See ya at Sandown next Sunday, you might see me in the slower group

FYP...What about me and all the other internet geniuses that said the same thing!!!....nobody ever thanks us

Oh haha yeah thanks to Artz and GtScotT i think you guys also mentioned that the turbo is likely to be the issue

And other guys who genuinely tried to help with their 2 cents

As such here ya go!

[scotty nm35]

The turbo isn't the issue, if you swap to ethanol like everyone is saying, the problem will disappear. Tracking it like this on 98 is asking for trouble, but what do I know...

[ARTZ]

Yeah e85 is on the cards sometime in the future

See ya at Sandown next Sunday, you might see me in the slower group

still faster than the group i'll be in....

[ARTZ]

The turbo isn't the issue, if you swap to ethanol like everyone is saying, the problem will disappear. Tracking it like this on 98 is asking for trouble, but what do I know...

exactly what would you know...last turbo you installed ended up in the boot....

[Sunkist]

BahahHhahha