Channel 9 News Last Night

[Ronin 09]

my colleague was the R&D lab boss at BHP Bluescope for 10+ years, about 15 years ago.

his house was one of the first full steel frame houses built (25+ years ago), on a concrete slab - using experimental steels at the time.

it's still solid as a rock. thing is, when you want to knock out a wall, it's a bit more of a challenge.

needless to say, he is a mega-old bloke!

[CrispyFries]

So what's the deal with extending a timber frame house? Can the extensions use steel? Will be looking at extending my house in the future and pretty sure it's currently timber, but not sure the new rules will allow timeber where I am...

[madbung]

and deforestation

One is a renewable resource, the other isn't..they don't use old growth hardwood to build house frames. Zazing.

Steel frame homes have been built for many years and have 2 major detractions.

In a house fire, even an isolated kitcken fire the odds of frame damage buckling ect are high which in turn adds to repair costs (if repairs are posible). Have the tensile properties of the steel and structural integrity of the frame changed after fire exposure? probably.

Underpinning and/or restumping, eventually all homes need this kind of work, Timber framing will flex and twist where needed.

A steel frame will also do this to a certain degree before buckling or breaking load points.

City dwellings, yeah...Country stuff no way

[djr81]

One is a renewable resource, the other isn't..they don't use old growth hardwood to build house frames. Zazing.

Steel frame homes have been built for many years and have 2 major detractions.

In a house fire, even an isolated kitcken fire the odds of frame damage buckling ect are high which in turn adds to repair costs (if repairs are posible). Have the tensile properties of the steel and structural integrity of the frame changed after fire exposure? probably.

Underpinning and/or restumping, eventually all homes need this kind of work, Timber framing will flex and twist where needed.

A steel frame will also do this to a certain degree before buckling or breaking load points.

City dwellings, yeah...Country stuff no way

Seriously, if the frame of a house gets hot enough to permanently change its composition then there is going to be so little left of the house its not worth worrying about. One of the great strengths of carbon steels is their ability to deal with changes in temperature without undue expansion/contraction or without losing significant strength. You cannot say that of materials such as stainless steel, aluminium or even wood.

Also buckling is far more a property of design than of materials. As is stiffness. Do not confuse stiffness with strength. They are two different proerties.

As you say timber frames will flex & twist where needed. They will also sag, twist, flex & rot where not needed.

Wood is a great material for making trees. Any other use is marginal.

[Bass Junky]

MadBung.

In a house fire, a steel frame doesn't contribute to a fire. White pine (what the majority of houses are made from these days) ignites at 250-280 degrees, after this point the fire spreads through the walls, into the roof cavity and there goes your house, especially if the trusses are built using gang nails, which again, all are.

The steel doesn't buckle or move until way above the temperature at which timber ignites.

When underpinning a house, you have to remember that steel weights around 1/3 of the same frame in timber, hence there is much less load on the joists and bearers, hence much less worry about.

And in regards to city vs country..... the % of houses in country area's in steel compared to city is MUCH higher.

[allblitz]

I'm going to begin building in the next few months (God-willing).

Whats the price difference between steel and timber?

[Bass Junky]

Steel often has a slightly higher cost for the frame itself, as it's almost always pre-fabricated, although the following trades should take less time to fit out as all the services holes should be in the right place for them, and you also wont need to straighten any walls, get the planer out or fix any warped timber frames.

Who is doing your building? DEMAND Steel!

[VB-]

yeah, use steel. i'm a boilermaker and work is slowing down, so start building your house already!!

[BIGGERDave]

Timber converts a lot of Cardon Di-Oxide to Oxygen during it's grow process, and then releases all that carbon back into the atmosphere as it degrades over the next 50 years.

i wouldnt say that the timber releases all of the carbon back into the atmosphere over 50 years, maybe thousands of years, known as the carbon cycle, as wood, in this case timber, acts as a carbon sink. It does this through photosynthesis, converting carbon into oxygen, removing the carbon bonds from carbon dioxide resulting in singular carbon atoms present in glucose C6H12O6 and releases whats left, the oxygen, but not all of it, as the rest of the oxygen is used in respiration during periods of no sunlight, eg night time, and most of the carbon is stored.

But then again, if the whole earth was covered into dense forests of wood, and i mean every continent, there still wouldnt be enough wood to drain out all of the carbon in carbon dioxide we produce annually. (We tested and measured this hypothesis in Uni) so in response, i vote steel framing

Spelling :wacho:

hope ive stated correctly, covered bout 3 years ago, correct if wrong

Edited March 26, 2009 by BIGGERDave

[htial]

Ryan... ...Hope you got the vid... ...I also hope it was the right one...

Sorry it's taken me so long to send... ...I've been having connection problems...

[_Ryan_]

Ryan... ...Hope you got the vid... ...I also hope it was the right one...

Sorry it's taken me so long to send... ...I've been having connection problems...

got it, thanks for that, i was expecting some new kind of crazy cancer but it was just douche's who don't know how too manage their usage haha, Thanks again!

[blackrex]

I'll be rebuilding my house that burnt down in the black Saturday fires using steel frames. I'm trying to reduce the amount of timber used in the construction of the whole house to reduce the fire risk as well as the damage caused by the termites, as the house is in the highest risk area for them in the state.

[Ruffels]

Who is doing your building? DEMAND Steel!

Haha, someone is worried about thier falling bhp and bluescope shares

nah, steel is good... makes life a bit easier on us sparkies as it already has holes cut in it for our cables, but not easy to clip to lol

[SKYL1N]

we have steel frame.. no problems at all.

[Bass Junky]

If anybody needs any further info on the correct companies to go to in order to get a steel farmed house built, please let me know.

I'm happy to help.

[cosmic starz]

my parents had a steel framed house on concrete slab in Hervey Bay Qld in the early 90s where summer temps were very hot and I do not recall any expansion noises whenever I was visiting - this type of construction was getting very popular in country areas - and termites which proliferate in northern hotter climates are not a problem compared to timber construction .............why has this thread appeared now? ..........someone doing a free advertorial for Bluescope?

[baron25]

Steel frame homes have been built for many years and have 2 major detractions.

In a house fire, even an isolated kitcken fire the odds of frame damage buckling ect are high which in turn adds to repair costs (if repairs are posible). Have the tensile properties of the steel and structural integrity of the frame changed after fire exposure? probably.

Underpinning and/or restumping, eventually all homes need this kind of work, Timber framing will flex and twist where needed.

A steel frame will also do this to a certain degree before buckling or breaking load points.

City dwellings, yeah...Country stuff no way

Madbung, you're right in that damage to the steel frame in a fire adds to repair costs, but you're wrong at the same time (if that makes sense). Yes it costs more to replace due to higher material costs (but they're only slightly higher as steel frames have taken off, the unit costs have dropped dramatically such that they are almost comparable with timber frame) but the temperatures with which steel starts to lose structural integrity are around 900-1500 degrees, by which stage your house is already beyond saving. And if you're really paranoid about fire damaging the structure there's treatments available which slow the rate of fire damage (it's called vermiculite, and insulates steel from fire. Usually used on larger buildings, but i don't see why you couldn't use it at home.)

And buildings are designed such that they are overstrengthened - lose a member and the whole thing won't collapse, so it's simple to replace a few.

(Civil Engineer FTW)

I was with a few mates a couple of weeks ago (both builders) and they were arguing this very argument. Crux of it was, with experienced guys, you can build in steel in a few days what takes a month in timber. Which equates to far less cost in labour, so $$$ back in pocket.

[Jack-]

Clutch.

Sorry mate but you are clearly uneducated and ill informed about this.

Steel Houses DO NOT CREAK. This has been proven bu the CSIRO and was found to be no more than a myth perpetrated by the timber to protect market share.

Steel is recycleable. Timber is not. Of ALL the steel possible to be recycled in Australia, 80% is, and of that 80%, 95% is actually recycled and turned into new steel. We dig the iron ore up once, turn it into steel once, and then re-use if for the next 100,000 years.

Timber converts a lot of Cardon Di-Oxide to Oxygen during it's grow process, and then releases all that carbon back into the atmosphere as it degrades over the next 50 years. AVerage life span of a galvanised steel house frame..... 800 years. As proven in accelerated scientific tests.

To protect timber from Termites and/or Rot you need to treat it with harsh chemicals, how knows what they are doing to people..... Remember Asbestos?

RBPOWA, The blue coating on the "TrueCore" material is simply a blue ink/tint in the final Chromate layer. It's simply a branding exercise, and that steel (Bluescope's ZincAlume) is not actually 100% correct for use in Steel Framing, normal Z275 Gal is better, as you don't need to use a membrane underneath the steel on concrete slabs. Having said that though, in the vast majority of cases, it's no problem to do this.

And you got those stats where? As for termites, why uses asbestos when treated pine does a fine job.

I was with a few mates a couple of weeks ago (both builders) and they were arguing this very argument. Crux of it was, with experienced guys, you can build in steel in a few days what takes a month in timber. Which equates to far less cost in labour, so $$$ back in pocket.

Both steel and timber frames come prefab so I don't see how either one would take significantly longer.

The only real advantage a galvanized frame has over timber is an issue of termites, where as it costs more.

[blackrex]

And you got those stats where? As for termites, why uses asbestos when treated pine does a fine job.

Of feeding the termites....

My house that burnt down, had had a whole corner of the house eaten out by termites, and that was with treatments being done every two years, and the frame being made from treated pine.