T04z 'or' Garrett -10's

[Roy]

Should be very nice track car as the motor is installed in a 700kg R33 GTR

Sorry OT...700kgs? Would be an amazing (unbelievable) effort if the thing is a std chassis R33, and not a sports sedan tubular chassis with fibreglass/CF panels

[BoostdR]

The boot, doors, radiator support are custom, plexi glass windows etc. No tubular chassis. Should be fun.

[The Dan]

I fail to see why people think the Z is one of these laggy turbos.

It is far from it. 1 bar at 3800rpm is not a laggy engine. I don't know if any of you have actually noticed when your power comes on with twins but -5's make a bar at 3800rpm also give or take a couple hundred depending on setup. -10's are another size up from this, so you can't expect them to perform as well as the Z, even on a single scroll manifold. Not all Z's are twin scroll either.

2.5-3L engines cannot make 600whp before 3500rpm so unless you go for N1's, you are not going to get the super response setup that everyone keeps talking about. Even factory GTR turbos are all in at 3200rpm. It just feels earlier because they don't make anywhere near the power.

And what's stopping the guy with the big single from changing gear ratios in the box and diff?

A motto I will stand by and prove fact every time is that anything over 350rwkw in a GTR and there is a single that will make the same power and come on boost slightly earlier than the twins before it.

[Strik3r]

t04z ftw I'll have to check my dyno charts to see exact response, but it makes peak power pretty much as soon as its on full boost and holds it right through to redline. You can get an 0.7 rear for the t04z, but it limits the power and you'd be better off going a GT3540 than a .7 t04z. im running the .84 rear and it seems to be the best blend between response and a fktonne of power. Even on the dyno the car was trying to launch off the rollers when it came on boost.

[Strik3r]

to add, with an rb30 bottom end you will see at least a bar by 3800.. i think im a tiny bit later than that (4k/4100 maybe) but its really not too bad.

If you simply bolt a t04z onto a rb26, yes it will be laggy.. but if you set everything up right (cams, manifold, headwork) you can gain response and power. when your talking about chasing more than about 400hp, i think big singles are a better option than twins as well.

[SimonR32]

The engine is in the car now, will soon give us a better idea on how the engine performs in real life. The turbo's were chuffing away from coming on boost so early...hopefully my HKS antisurge housing will help on my own setup. Should be very nice track car as the motor is installed in a 700kg R33 GTR

lol @ 700kgs...

i want to see it driving onto a weigh bridge with that diet

[BoostdR]

4WD Pro-GTR drag records (on slicks):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st HKS Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 7.671 181.98 mph HKS GT3540R (x2)

2nd Avance Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.119 171 mph MHI TD06-25G (x2)

3rd Target Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.331 169 mph HKS GT-3037S (x2)

4th Garage Saurus Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.355 n/a HKS GT-3040 (x2)

5th A'PEXi Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.357 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

6th VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.450 168 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

7th Tomei Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.503 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

8th Bee Racing Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.602 n/a HKS GT2835R (x2)

9th RS Feast Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.667 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4WD drag records (on street tyres):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.612 172.5 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

2nd Waste Sports Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.916 162.32 mph HKS GT3240 (x2)

3rd Garage Decide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.933 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4th Signal Auto Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.999 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

5th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.025 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

6th Garage SPL Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.104 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77 (x2)

7th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.114 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

8th Red Zone Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.122 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

9th M's Factory Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.140 150.39 mph HKS T51R-SPL

10th R-Make Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.169 n/a KKK K26 (x2)

I know what I'm going to use.....A single turbo exactly twice the size of twins has 2.5times the inertia.

[bloodzkull]

i'm making 346kw(465hp) out of -5's. 19psi. i honestly believe it would push over 500 easy enough with non standard exhaust manifolds and a bigger exhaust, and some better piping.

i'm on full boost by late 3's but making 6psi at 3 flat. very torquey setup considering it's still on 2.6ltr's. and a massive range of usable power. i'm sold on twins

and don't take this the wrong way. but even with no driver and no fuel. i'll believe 700 when i see it.

Edited March 27, 2009 by bloodzkull

[Marko R1]

4WD Pro-GTR drag records (on slicks):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st HKS Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 7.671 181.98 mph HKS GT3540R (x2)

2nd Avance Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.119 171 mph MHI TD06-25G (x2)

3rd Target Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.331 169 mph HKS GT-3037S (x2)

4th Garage Saurus Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.355 n/a HKS GT-3040 (x2)

5th A'PEXi Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.357 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

6th VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.450 168 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

7th Tomei Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.503 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

8th Bee Racing Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.602 n/a HKS GT2835R (x2)

9th RS Feast Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.667 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4WD drag records (on street tyres):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.612 172.5 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

2nd Waste Sports Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.916 162.32 mph HKS GT3240 (x2)

3rd Garage Decide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.933 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4th Signal Auto Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.999 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

5th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.025 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

6th Garage SPL Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.104 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77 (x2)

7th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.114 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

8th Red Zone Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.122 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

9th M's Factory Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.140 150.39 mph HKS T51R-SPL

10th R-Make Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.169 n/a KKK K26 (x2)

I know what I'm going to use.....A single turbo exactly twice the size of twins has 2.5times the inertia.

well this comes to me as a surprise, all of the above listed gtr's are twin turbo (except for the M's Factory @ 9th place)

i had another chat with my tuner who has had experience with tuning the t04z & -10's...he said it takes a bit longer to get the twins on song together & has had the following results...

rb26 with -10's = boost by 4500rpm (take off 15% with rb30 = boost by about 3800rpm)

rb30 with t04z = boost by 4500rpm

peak power with -10's = will give me 400kw (my goal)

peak power with t04z = will give me 400kw (my goal)

either way i'll be happy & i'll probably stick with my already purchased -10's

[Piggaz]

well this comes to me as a surprise, all of the above listed gtr's are twin turbo (except for the M's Factory @ 9th place)

i had another chat with my tuner who has had experience with tuning the t04z & -10's...he said it takes a bit longer to get the twins on song together & has had the following results...

rb26 with -10's = boost by 4500rpm (take off 15% with rb30 = boost by about 3800rpm)

rb30 with t04z = boost by 4500rpm

peak power with -10's = will give me 400kw (my goal)

peak power with t04z = will give me 400kw (my goal)

either way i'll be happy & i'll probably stick with my already purchased -10's

Im getting fullboost (1.7bar) around 4700 RPM in 4th at the moment. (2738CC and 9.0:1 comp). Maybe this might drop with the next tune. Hopefully!!!!

[DRIFTER]

i'm making 346kw(465hp) out of -5's. 19psi. i honestly believe it would push over 500 easy enough with non standard exhaust manifolds and a bigger exhaust, and some better piping.

i'm on full boost by late 3's but making 6psi at 3 flat. very torquey setup considering it's still on 2.6ltr's. and a massive range of usable power. i'm sold on twins

and don't take this the wrong way. but even with no driver and no fuel. i'll believe 700 when i see it.

I'm making 330kw(445hp) out of a 3582 on 23psi with standard coils breaking down. I'm at full boost at 3500 and have 10 psi at 3 flat - massive rage of usable power, and i don't have to work on twins.

Single FTW!

[Lithium]

4WD Pro-GTR drag records (on slicks):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st HKS Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 7.671 181.98 mph HKS GT3540R (x2)

2nd Avance Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.119 171 mph MHI TD06-25G (x2)

3rd Target Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.331 169 mph HKS GT-3037S (x2)

4th Garage Saurus Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.355 n/a HKS GT-3040 (x2)

5th A'PEXi Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.357 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

6th VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.450 168 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

7th Tomei Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.503 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

8th Bee Racing Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.602 n/a HKS GT2835R (x2)

9th RS Feast Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.667 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

I know what I'm going to use.....A single turbo exactly twice the size of twins has 2.5times the inertia.

Where do you come up with a theory like that? The twins will have near twice the drag from cores/shafts and no less rotating mass to spin.

Also you have referred to a seriously out of date top list - a few should be added:

Heat Treatments - 7.57 with GT45R

Godzilla Motorsport - 7.8 with GT47R

GDS Motorsport - 8.02 with T51R SPL

<can't remember the name - Arab guys) 8.1 with Borg Warner 88mm

SpeedD - 8.2 with GT47

Sumo Power - 8.2 with T51R

All single turbos...

[The Dan]

well this comes to me as a surprise, all of the above listed gtr's are twin turbo (except for the M's Factory @ 9th place)

i had another chat with my tuner who has had experience with tuning the t04z & -10's...he said it takes a bit longer to get the twins on song together & has had the following results...

rb26 with -10's = boost by 4500rpm (take off 15% with rb30 = boost by about 3800rpm)

rb30 with t04z = boost by 4500rpm

peak power with -10's = will give me 400kw (my goal)

peak power with t04z = will give me 400kw (my goal)

either way i'll be happy & i'll probably stick with my already purchased -10's

You'll need to change those figures.

RB26 with -10's = boost by 4500 = boost by 4100 on RB30

RB26 with T04Z = boost by 4200 = boost by 3800 on RB30

And if your goal is 400kw, then why the hell do you need -10's? -5's will do 400kw and RB26 with -5's = boost by 4000 = boost by 3600 in RB30.

[The Dan]

But if you've already bought the -10's why does any of this matter? We've all done the comparisons before...you are always going to get the die hard twin fans and the die hard single fans. Like I said earlier, I try to stick to twins under 350rwkw, but over that, single is worth considering. No one setup is really better than the other. And the reason why people go on about twins being so responsive on RB26 is because no one has really gone to the effort of putting a small single on an RB26 before. I'm sure someone has but you don't see it all the time. GT3082R on RB26 would go off. And you'd still make 350rwkw easily.

The multi throttle is another aid to response. Any of the guys who go for aftermarket plenums don't put on small turbos (usually) so there are no real comparisons between multi throttle and small single vs multi throttle and twins.

[Strik3r]

well this comes to me as a surprise, all of the above listed gtr's are twin turbo (except for the M's Factory @ 9th place)

i had another chat with my tuner who has had experience with tuning the t04z & -10's...he said it takes a bit longer to get the twins on song together & has had the following results...

rb26 with -10's = boost by 4500rpm (take off 15% with rb30 = boost by about 3800rpm)

rb30 with t04z = boost by 4500rpm

peak power with -10's = will give me 400kw (my goal)

peak power with t04z = will give me 400kw (my goal)

either way i'll be happy & i'll probably stick with my already purchased -10's

If you have the -10's already then im sure you'll be happy. But as food for thought, here is my t04z dyno graph.

As you can see, 1 bar at 4krpm, full boost by 4500.. and it makes close to peak power by 6000 rpm. Put the same thing on a 3 litre bottom end, and you would probably have 24psi before 4000rpm!

p.s. both combinations are good for at least 100 more hp than what your goal is. but i guess that leaves you plenty of room when you want to chase more power

best of luck, let us know how you go.

[SimonR32]

4WD Pro-GTR drag records (on slicks):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st HKS Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 7.671 181.98 mph HKS GT3540R (x2)

2nd Avance Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.119 171 mph MHI TD06-25G (x2)

3rd Target Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.331 169 mph HKS GT-3037S (x2)

4th Garage Saurus Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.355 n/a HKS GT-3040 (x2)

5th A'PEXi Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.357 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

6th VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.450 168 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

7th Tomei Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.503 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77LS (x2)

8th Bee Racing Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.602 n/a HKS GT2835R (x2)

9th RS Feast Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.667 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4WD drag records (on street tyres):

Class Owner Country Vehicle Type ET Trap Speed Induction

1st VeilSide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.612 172.5 mph VeilSide GT3540 (x2)

2nd Waste Sports Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 8.916 162.32 mph HKS GT3240 (x2)

3rd Garage Decide Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 8.933 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

4th Signal Auto Japan Nissan Skyline R34 GTR 8.999 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

5th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.025 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

6th Garage SPL Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.104 n/a IHI RX6B-TCW77 (x2)

7th Endless Japan Nissan Skyline R33 GTR 9.114 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

8th Red Zone Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.122 n/a HKS GT3240 (x2)

9th M's Factory Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.140 150.39 mph HKS T51R-SPL

10th R-Make Japan Nissan Skyline R32 GTR 9.169 n/a KKK K26 (x2)

I know what I'm going to use.....A single turbo exactly twice the size of twins has 2.5times the inertia.

LOL, most retarded theory i have been on SAU for a while...

apart from the list being outdated, every single one of those turbo kits outflow a T51R SPL and Trust T-88 34D that were the biggest singles available in japan at the time...

[Marko R1]

You'll need to change those figures.

RB26 with -10's = boost by 4500 = boost by 4100 on RB30

RB26 with T04Z = boost by 4200 = boost by 3800 on RB30

And if your goal is 400kw, then why the hell do you need -10's? -5's will do 400kw and RB26 with -5's = boost by 4000 = boost by 3600 in RB30.

i went with -10's as i knew i could afford to make up the lag with the rb30 (& get more power)

[Marko R1]

If you have the -10's already then im sure you'll be happy. But as food for thought, here is my t04z dyno graph.

As you can see, 1 bar at 4krpm, full boost by 4500.. and it makes close to peak power by 6000 rpm. Put the same thing on a 3 litre bottom end, and you would probably have 24psi before 4000rpm!

p.s. both combinations are good for at least 100 more hp than what your goal is. but i guess that leaves you plenty of room when you want to chase more power

best of luck, let us know how you go.

that is a nice power Delivery - looks fat!

does anyone have a graph of -10s to compare? i wonder if the graphs would look the same...

[sneakey pete]

i went with -10's as i knew i could afford to make up the lag with the rb30 (& get more power)

You'll be getting more than 400awkw's i'd say mate.

[BoostdR]

I would like to see the T04Z with a .61A/R housing against a set of GTRS.

anyway the endless debate continues.

I think the best chance a single would have would be to utilise a split pulse exhaust housing with the associated twin wastegate spilt pulse manifold...then were talking a Single advantage.

According to HKS themselves the GTRS's on an Rb26 just tip the TO4Z in response.....would like to know what A/R the T04Z has on it however

And just to place some more confusion in the mix. I have attached both compressor maps. So given best possible reponse before entering the surge zone we get:

Boost GTRS GTRSx2 T04Z

.5 bar 6.5 lb 13lb 13lb

.75 bar 9 lb 18lb 17.5lb

1 bar 12 lb 24lb 21lb

1.25bar 16.5lb 33lb 25lb

1.5bar 22.5lb 45lb 29.5lb

1.75lb 26 lb 52lb 35lb

So obviouly each gtrs can spool much faster however has half the exhaust gas to do it with.

Edited April 5, 2009 by BoostdR