Trying To Understand Turbo Upgrades To A Rb20 Please Help Me Understand

[335]

Hello

I currently have a RB25 turbo on my RB20. I am thinking about upgrading to a bigger turbo because I want to hit 200rwk and up. Goal is 250rwk

What would be better, high flowing the RB25 turbo? High flowing the original RB20 turbo? Going with a HKS GTRS turbo? 2530 Turbo? Or TD06?

I want to have good response and have a fast car. I use the car as a daily driver but I do hit it on the high way sometimes and plan to take it to the track once or twice a year.

Help please.

[femno]

250kw is a fair bit for a 20, in this case you cant have good response/midrange.

Look in the RB20 Turbo upgrade thread. Most of your answers are in there.

A 2530 is too small for 250kw.

[335]

250kw is a fair bit for a 20, in this case you cant have good response/midrange.

Look in the RB20 Turbo upgrade thread. Most of your answers are in there.

A 2530 is too small for 250kw.

So you are saying that if I go for 250rwkw I will have a lag machine?

[335]

250kw is a fair bit for a 20, in this case you cant have good response/midrange.

Look in the RB20 Turbo upgrade thread. Most of your answers are in there.

A 2530 is too small for 250kw.

I tried to go through the thread but it just seems to be results and it doesn't really answer my questions. I just want a hard firm answer from someone please.

[335]

I am sorry I meant to get something around 230 rwkw. But if that will make it super lagger than I would like 220 rwkw.

Edited March 27, 2009 by 335

[toddlls]

I am in this same boat as you, I am almost convinced the way forward for 200+rwkw is to upgrade to a RB25DET as the lag issue is not what I'm wanting either plus there is great benefit in a better torque curve from the 25, I will be watchin this thread to see if someone can answer you with a better solution rather than just tellin you to go search which I believe you have done and thus the reason for this thread

another option is to go the RB25 crank and effectively perform a stroker upgrade which i am currently investigating too

[paulr33]

more displacement is better in all cases

if you can affford engine swap

[JarrydF]

Just to give you an idea. I whacked on some bits on a friends R32.

The stock rb20 turbo made 150rwkw on roughly 16psi.

The rb25hf made 210rwkw on 16psi with 640cc injectors, fmic, 3" turbo back.

Both times it was mapped with a nistune board. The RB25HF isn't to laggy either.

[Roy]

I am in this same boat as you, I am almost convinced the way forward for 200+rwkw is to upgrade to a RB25DET as the lag issue is not what I'm wanting either plus there is great benefit in a better torque curve from the 25, I will be watchin this thread to see if someone can answer you with a better solution rather than just tellin you to go search which I believe you have done and thus the reason for this thread

another option is to go the RB25 crank and effectively perform a stroker upgrade which i am currently investigating too

There is no doubt that an RB20 is breathless compared to the bigger displacement RBs when under 3,000rpm and off boost. BUT do not underestimate the grunt and speed you can get out of a std RB20. There isnt an RB25 going to the track with SAU-VIC that can catch my 260rwkws RB20 at the track. That includes a 320rwkws R34 GTT. Similar power SR20s are also slower, so...dont write off the internally std RB20 as laggy and no good for performance.

For a punchy street car, yes they are compromised. But for outright performance they can match up to GT3 Porkas with no real problem at speed.

So for all those people saying no good from 200rwkws. Well have a look at the below graphs

STD RB20 with a TD06 turbo and ECU upgrade

Compared to a std turbo RB26 with Poncams, and same dyno and same tuner

As you would expect the Rb26 spanks the RB20 down low, but it has a usable rev range over at usable road speeds. You can see the RB20 punches well above its weight being comparable to a well sorted (breathing mods) std turbo RB26 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And here is the results from a program where it compares different dyno plots, and as you can see my RB20 isnt struggling against a pair of similar powered RB25s from R34s with Hi FLows and Poncams.

Keep in mind behind every engine is a gearbox, diff and tyres, so it means DICK at what rpm you make power, its all about at what road speeds you are making good power over !

[Ronin]

With low mount internal gate TD06. I do have a better graph with out wheelspin dip but i'm too lazy to scan it. It does need an external gate though.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Ronin

[Wheezy]

Similar setup to Roy's RB20 both with TD06L2

[335]

Similar setup to Roy's RB20 both with TD06L2

So how is the daily driving with these RB 20's? I was thinking about the TD06. Is it laggy? How can I improve the low? Cams?

Edited March 27, 2009 by 335

[Wheezy]

Cams will only move the curve up a little and fatten up mid range power.

Displacement will fix your solution.

Mine is not a daily, I believe that Roy\Ronin's still are.

I can't really comment here as I NEVER drive it in city traffic. Thats what a daily driver is for.

But, with a nice quiet exhaust, plumbed back wastegate and some paitence you might be alright. It would be no different to any other import with say a button clutch of sorts.

Its all gas, break, honk for everyone in traffic. Lag would not really come into play.

[Roy]

I dont undestand what people mean by is it ok for daily driving...lol of course it is. It drives like an NA 2L and has 100rwkws in the rev range you use on the street. If by daily driver you mean a car you can thrash on the street then no way a TD06 is for you. In second gear is does not sit you in your seat until 60km/h.

But i am a boring old fart, have never been booked for anything in my life as on the street i keep it all pent up. I get to the track and i rape my poor car. So for daily driving, i dont get it, most streets are 50km/h to 80km/h....you dont need 260rwkw for that

If you are in Vic i suggest you come to the next SAU Vic DECA day. Russman would be happy to scare the shit out of you with his driving in his R32 running a 2530 and abtou 230rwkws, and i can take you for a spin in my TD06. You will definitely get a feel for the respective strengths of each setup....

But when you say street driving, you need to be honest with yourself and think about what sort of driving it is that you do on the street

[Wheezy]

Agreed, 260rwkw RB20's are no fun on the street, you cant do much with them. Lighting up 2nd gear every time your tyres are cold is not my idea of fun.

You will just end up with no license.

[335]

I dont undestand what people mean by is it ok for daily driving...lol of course it is. It drives like an NA 2L and has 100rwkws in the rev range you use on the street. If by daily driver you mean a car you can thrash on the street then no way a TD06 is for you. In second gear is does not sit you in your seat until 60km/h.

But i am a boring old fart, have never been booked for anything in my life as on the street i keep it all pent up. I get to the track and i rape my poor car. So for daily driving, i dont get it, most streets are 50km/h to 80km/h....you dont need 260rwkw for that

If you are in Vic i suggest you come to the next SAU Vic DECA day. Russman would be happy to scare the shit out of you with his driving in his R32 running a 2530 and abtou 230rwkws, and i can take you for a spin in my TD06. You will definitely get a feel for the respective strengths of each setup....

But when you say street driving, you need to be honest with yourself and think about what sort of driving it is that you do on the street

Ok GTRS are good for response while the TD06 is good for flat out speed.

I live in Japan. I live in a area where its close to Yokohama so there are a lot of places to hit the gas here, especially on the highway. There are famous places here highway wise where the Japanese and foreign people living here take their rides to display and race.

It is expensive to use the track here so I will only do that maybe once or twice a year.

I want to have good response as well has having good speed.

Which would be the better option: highflow the RB25 turbo on my RB20, by a GTRS(2530), or go TD06 or something?

I am planning to start buying parts to upgrade my car more.

[Roy]

TD06-20G is more responsive then GT-RS and makes more power. My car went back to back with another SAU guy on dynos to compare setups. We run similar exhausts, same IC and filter from memory, he ran a botl on GT-RS i ran a full Greddy TD06-20G setup. The cars have different tuners, but the 20G made more power and was more responsive.

A GT-RS is not the same as a 2530, the 2530 is smaller.

The more power thing could be attributed to the fact that i was running 2psi more, but i think at the same boost the 20G would have still made a few kws more and would have of course still been more responsive

[335]

TD06-20G is more responsive then GT-RS and makes more power. My car went back to back with another SAU guy on dynos to compare setups. We run similar exhausts, same IC and filter from memory, he ran a botl on GT-RS i ran a full Greddy TD06-20G setup. The cars have different tuners, but the 20G made more power and was more responsive.

A GT-RS is not the same as a 2530, the 2530 is smaller.

The more power thing could be attributed to the fact that i was running 2psi more, but i think at the same boost the 20G would have still made a few kws more and would have of course still been more responsive

You mentioned earlier that I would not see any boost with the TD06 until 60 kmh, how would the car drive until then? Would it be slow? Would a GT-RS be a good compromise?

Want to make sure I get it right. The 25 turbo is pretty good but want to make sure when I upgrade that I don't lose response.