New Motorsport Complex Or Mike Ranns Hoon Laws

[JMW]

After reading Pete's post in the Wasteland i thought i'd put my head on the chopping block and kick this one off.

The events of the past weekend have again raised the issue of Adelaide not having a 1/4 mile drag strip in useable condition, thus being heavily linked by those on this forum and other motorsport based forums has had the effect of more hoons on the road.

We all know AIR is just sitting there idle as a wasteland at the moment, and there has been rumours for the last few years of a new facility being built at Osborne. So besides Mallala and the country 1/8 mile tracks SA has nothing at the moment.

As i was involved in drag racing before AIR was closed down, i can say that yes it does get some of the hoon element off the roads, but does not cure the whole problem. There will always be those with 'the monkey see, monkey do' attitude and will not enter there cars to compete, but will happily race on Pt. Wakefield road on the way home.

I opened this thread as a poll and discussion point, not a thread to cause arguments. And also the help keep related items out of the thread created to respect Minh's passing.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Nightcrawler

[rhys5169]

id like to say good work to the bloke from wrx or subaru owners club who was on channel 2 news doing a press confrence expressing in a sane, well thought out manner reasons why we need some form of affordable motorsport in adelaide. for him to get that kind of coverage on a predominatly grey nomad channel was great.

but 2 thumbs down to the labor dickhead who they cut too afterward who shrugged off the question when asked by a reporter and went straight back to what his PR people told him to say "hoons, hoons, cars, hoons, drags, hoons" in a stern voice.... backwards thinking from a backwards government

Edited March 30, 2009 by rhys5169

[RubyRS4]

James, options for the poll would be better as:

1. Yes, we need a motorsport complex (drag strip), and new anti hoon laws.

2. Yes, we need a motorsport complex (drag strip), but no anti hoon laws.

3. No, we don't need a motorsport complex, but we do need more anti hoon laws.

4. No motorsport complex, no anti hoon laws ... I live under a rock!

Your poll deviates away from the title of this thread. But I agree we need to keep this thread on topic ... Pete has been busy enough as is.

Edited March 30, 2009 by RubyRS4

[djr81]

The events of the past weekend have again raised the issue of Adelaide not having a 1/4 mile drag strip in useable condition, thus being heavily linked by those on this forum and other motorsport based forums has had the effect of more hoons on the road.

Please don't link hoons to the motorsport fraternity.

If you want to lobby for facilities for motorsport then good on you.

But please don't link a bunch of mindless twats to the sport that I love.

Overwhelmingly the people you find at grown up events are serious, responsible, enthusiastic & good at what they do. In other words a world away from some clown in a VN ripping a single pegger burnout for his rock ape mates.

Hoons (for want of a better word) don't do what they do because of a lack of facilities. They do what they do because of a lack of cognitive processes.

Hooning & motorsport - not the same.

[Damo_R34]

IMO, There will always be the minority who have a complete disregard for the law, will speed, will do drugs, drink and drive, etc etc, no matter how much legislation or education you provide, it will still happen. A drag strip may or may not reduce the amount of hoon activity on our roads, but drag strip or no drag strip, "hooning" will still occur.

Its common sense that the majority of hoons are aged 16-25ish, and i think that laws such as power to weight restrictions for L, P1 and P2 drivers can help reduce the amount of high speed deaths that occur on the roads. Sure, you can still go fast in any car, but i think most teens/younger drivers speed because their cars with larger capacity engines/forced induction can get to 140k's in a matter of seconds. Reducing the amount of "fun" experienced whilst climbing quickly to high speeds could decrease the amount of high speed deaths/injuries on the roads.

But in answer to your question James, i say yes, i think a drag strip will decrease the amount of hooning on the streets, but not by much. We still need hoon laws, and a drag strip.

The drag strip could also prove quite profitable, which could be in the interests of the state government...

These are my opinions only mind you, from a 21 year old who falls into the hoon category.

[JMW]

James, options for the poll would be better as:

1. Yes, we need a motorsport complex (drag strip), and new anti hoon laws.

2. Yes, we need a motorsport complex (drag strip), but no anti hoon laws.

3. No, we don't need a motorsport complex, but we do need more anti hoon laws.

4. No motorsport complex, no anti hoon laws ... I live under a rock!

Your poll deviates away from the title of this thread. But I agree we need to keep this thread on topic ... Pete has been busy enough as is.

Thanks for the input Ruby, just edited it then

[RubyRS4]

IMO

We do need another drag strip open again. But I do not believe it will stop the hoons. Many people whinging about not having a track to use, will never end up using one anyway if they did have one.

I vote for both. Open a drag strip and introduce new hoon laws, more so in licensing restrictions. Tougher hoon laws are coming now, whether you like it or not.

[JMW]

Please don't link hoons to the motorsport fraternity.

If you want to lobby for facilities for motorsport then good on you.

But please don't link a bunch of mindless twats to the sport that I love.

Overwhelmingly the people you find at grown up events are serious, responsible, enthusiastic & good at what they do. In other words a world away from some clown in a VN ripping a single pegger burnout for his rock ape mates.

Hoons (for want of a better word) don't do what they do because of a lack of facilities. They do what they do because of a lack of cognitive processes.

Hooning & motorsport - not the same.

Unfortunateley the greater public like to link the two together, but i do agree fully with your statement. The idea was not so much to lobby but to just give the forum users a thread to put there thoughts in. But thats exactlty the type of input im after Djr81

[RubyRS4]

Please don't link hoons to the motorsport fraternity.

If you want to lobby for facilities for motorsport then good on you.

But please don't link a bunch of mindless twats to the sport that I love.

Overwhelmingly the people you find at grown up events are serious, responsible, enthusiastic & good at what they do. In other words a world away from some clown in a VN ripping a single pegger burnout for his rock ape mates.

Hoons (for want of a better word) don't do what they do because of a lack of facilities. They do what they do because of a lack of cognitive processes.

Hooning & motorsport - not the same.

I agree 100%. Thats why I asked James to re-model the poll to show one won't necessarily solve the other.

Drag strips will not solve the hoon problem ... I don't believe it will add to the hoon problem either. But at least it will take away the mindless excuses "we have no where to hoon".

I've done a bit of drag racing myself. I really miss AIR. Nowdays I get my thrills out at Mallala, where the ambulance is 30 seconds away, not 30 minutes away!

Edited March 30, 2009 by RubyRS4

[TALBO]

Please don't link hoons to the motorsport fraternity.

If you want to lobby for facilities for motorsport then good on you.

But please don't link a bunch of mindless twats to the sport that I love.

Overwhelmingly the people you find at grown up events are serious, responsible, enthusiastic & good at what they do. In other words a world away from some clown in a VN ripping a single pegger burnout for his rock ape mates.

Hoons (for want of a better word) don't do what they do because of a lack of facilities. They do what they do because of a lack of cognitive processes.

Hooning & motorsport - not the same.

Agree 200%. Well put.

I don't think we need hoon laws. I'm all for a system that punishes offenders heavily and re-classification of reckless dangerous driving, endangering life and attempted murder charges. Repeat offenders need to be made an example of too.... prison time potentially....? After all any car is potentially a murder weapon.

[djr81]

I agree 100%. Thats why I asked James to re-model the poll to show one won't necessarily solve the other.

Drag strips will not solve the hoon problem ... I don't believe it will add to the hoon problem either. But at least it will take away the mindless excuses "we have no where to hoon".

I've done a bit of drag racing myself. I really miss AIR. Nowdays I get my thrills out at Mallala, where the ambulance is 30 seconds away, not 30 minutes away!

Look I have tried (yeah, stupid I know) convincing people to get into motor sport rather than doing stupid sh!t on the road. What inevitably happens is they suddenly become aware of their own shortcomings - be it their true ignorance about cars or their lack of ability. So they just go back to doing stupid stuff on the road.

Basically because:

1. Doing stuff properly is too hard.

2. Getting hosed by a pensioner in a 30 year old car on the track is not as fully sik as making up stories about street racing, burnouts etc for your mates.

3. Its too expensive - motorsport that is, somehow defect notices, court costs, fines etc etc are cheap.

Anyway the point is people will always find some excuse to not do what they don't want to do. So lack of facilities is the current excuse. Fix that & they just move onto something else.

The best you can hope for (& it is a parlous hope) is

1. Get people to recognise hoons & car enthusiasts are two different types of people.

2. Get some facilities.

[RubyRS4]

Look I have tried (yeah, stupid I know) convincing people to get into motor sport rather than doing stupid sh!t on the road. What inevitably happens is they suddenly become aware of their own shortcomings - be it their true ignorance about cars or their lack of ability. So they just go back to doing stupid stuff on the road.

Basically because:

1. Doing stuff properly is too hard.

2. Getting hosed by a pensioner in a 30 year old car on the track is not as fully sik as making up stories about street racing, burnouts etc for your mates.

3. Its too expensive - motorsport that is, somehow defect notices, court costs, fines etc etc are cheap.

I have tried also. I have a mate who did a track day at Mallala last year and didn't like his results, after bragging he could rip around Mallala on his CBR in 1m20s! In actual fact, he couldn't break 1m27s. I dropped down from the fast group to medium to show him lines, braking markers, entry speed, etc and he just couldn't do any of that. He wasn't taking in the lesson and got annoyed that I made him look like he was standing still. In too much of a hurry to go fast and not learn how to go fast, safely. It takes time dumbass, something those 40+ year olds have learned. We went for a ride in the hills not long after that. It was windy and the road conditions were not the best. Half the group chose to ride another route, whilst some (including this mate) chose to ride the riskier (but potentially faster) roads. I specifically told him he was all over the place and should ride our slower direction. He went against my advice. Now with 3 racers in the group, and all 3 recommending the slower roads, which would you do? Mr "I'll be fine" ended up crashing and nearly going over a cliff. You can ear bash them as much as you want ... they just won't listen.

They don't like the truth being known: they can't drive/ride as well as they thought they could. They're in denial and want to go back to their dream world and keep bragging about things they can't actually do.

1. I agree. Hoons take short cuts, or won't do it at all.

2. I've been passed many times around Mallala by guys older than me, and there's a reason for that: they've been doing it for decades and have that skill that everyone else lacks. Deal with it and learn it too.

3. Too many people are tight arses. A time slip nowdays doesn't have much bragging rights to a defect notice or speeding fine somehow

Anyway the point is people will always find some excuse to not do what they don't want to do. So lack of facilities is the current excuse. Fix that & they just move onto something else.

The best you can hope for (& it is a parlous hope) is

1. Get people to recognise hoons & car enthusiasts are two different types of people.

2. Get some facilities.

Agreed 200%.

They're a bunch of whingers. Give them what they want, and they'll find something else to whinge about.

1. Just recently, myself, Nene and Ben sat down with SAPOL to iron out some issues and do just that. The message is getting thru.

We have a facility called "Mallala", but not many people use it. Even if we have a drag strip, it won't do much for the hoons. They're crashing on corners and uneven surfaces, something a drag strip doesn't have. Mallala is a good little track for learning more about corners, your car, and yourself.

But as they say: "You can lead a horse to water but ... "

Edited March 30, 2009 by RubyRS4

[Nightcrawler]

My big argument for a drag strip is that if people have a safe place they can go and get it off their chest, then they are less likely to feel a need to do it on the road. Whilst Mallala is great, it is a significant expense to do a track day (not the just entry fee, but rather a set of tyres, a set of brakes, fuel, breakages due to driving so hard), whereas anyone can drive out to AIR, do 10 runs, and drive home at little cost (of course things can break, but much less so than ripping for 10 minutes near full revs around Mallala at a time).

I am positive I remember reading on several occasions about the decrease in the amount of hoon activity after WSID etc opened twice a week for public drags.

Nothing but education will lessen hoon behaviour, but if a drag strip lessens it by 10% or a few deaths per year, it is money very well spent imho. And as pointed out, such a venue would actually make a PROFIT, especially if they were smart enough to house drifting events there too. Seems like a win-win to me - pity the State Goverment is much more interested in penalising the masses with speed cameras, than actually addressing the problem at its root causes.

[rhys5169]

My big argument for a drag strip is that if people have a safe place they can go and get it off their chest, then they are less likely to feel a need to do it on the road. Whilst Mallala is great, it is a significant expense to do a track day (not the just entry fee, but rather a set of tyres, a set of brakes, fuel, breakages due to driving so hard), whereas anyone can drive out to AIR, do 10 runs, and drive home at little cost (of course things can break, but much less so than ripping for 10 minutes near full revs around Mallala at a time).

I am positive I remember reading on several occasions about the decrease in the amount of hoon activity after WSID etc opened twice a week for public drags.

Nothing but education will lessen hoon behaviour, but if a drag strip lessens it by 10% or a few deaths per year, it is money very well spent imho. And as pointed out, such a venue would actually make a PROFIT, especially if they were smart enough to house drifting events there too. Seems like a win-win to me - pity the State Goverment is much more interested in penalising the masses with speed cameras, than actually addressing the problem at its root causes.

exactly, well said.

[Madaz]

Thats the ol brush it under the mat and hope it goes away, at least until next election

[medman2damax]

QUOTE (Nightcrawler @ 30 Mar 2009, 01:23 PM) My big argument for a drag strip is that if people have a safe place they can go and get it off their chest, then they are less likely to feel a need to do it on the road. Whilst Mallala is great, it is a significant expense to do a track day (not the just entry fee, but rather a set of tyres, a set of brakes, fuel, breakages due to driving so hard), whereas anyone can drive out to AIR, do 10 runs, and drive home at little cost (of course things can break, but much less so than ripping for 10 minutes near full revs around Mallala at a time).

I am positive I remember reading on several occasions about the decrease in the amount of hoon activity after WSID etc opened twice a week for public drags.

Nothing but education will lessen hoon behaviour, but if a drag strip lessens it by 10% or a few deaths per year, it is money very well spent imho. And as pointed out, such a venue would actually make a PROFIT, especially if they were smart enough to house drifting events there too. Seems like a win-win to me - pity the State Goverment is much more interested in penalising the masses with speed cameras, than actually addressing the problem at its root causes.

exactly, well said.

exactly exaclty well said well said.

+1

Edited March 30, 2009 by medman2damax

[AndrewJZX100]

Hoon laws that relate to what car(s) people can and can't drive are rediculous. Cars don't rip skids by themselves, it's the wanker behind the wheel who thinks his mates will be impressed when he drops a static in the middle of the suburbs or guns it off the lights to beat someone next to him.

Identify those with the attitude that they can do whatever they want on the roads and suspend their licence until their behaviour and outlook on driving improve. Better yet, put programs in place to weed out these people before they get a licence. Attempt to instill a cautious attitude towards driving in school and put emphasis on learning car control and respecting that if things go wrong they can potentially take your life or others.

Young people will always want to experiment and do things for themselves to see what the outcome is so there definately needs to be a complex built where people can go to act out their curiosities and find out what happens when they do certain things in their cars. This also gives the aforementioned showoffs somewhere they can burn some rubber, test their car against others and just generally have some fun, in a safer environment.

Getting a little bit of the desire to be a showoff/thrash the shit out of their car for what ever reason combined with forcefully changing their attitudes to driving on the road and towards other road users would do far more than waiting until they have performed stupid and dangerous acts on the road then knee-jerking with harsher and harsher blanket penalties.

[SLED]

A Poll is a good idea James but I doubt anyone on here will vote the bottom 2 selections.......if they do, they are in the wrong place.

Shame we couldn't get this poll out to Joe Public and get a broader perspective.....oh well.

Anyway, here's my 2 cents worth that I didn't feel was appropriate in Minh's thread.

I personally believe (as per Andrew's post) a new drag strip at the very least is what's needed but even then, I don't think it will circumvent all hoon behaviour on the streets.

Having said that, if a new drag strip was to save just 1 teenage life, it would be worth it!!

Imagine for a moment if you could forsee the future and you spoke to the mother of that teenager 1 week before and told her that her son would live to a ripe old age if he had a drag strip to vent his right foot and you'll meet a mother that would be prepared to sell her house to fund that track.

Unfortunately Tom Koustantonis (minister for road safety) has made a very clear statement today on talk back radio stating that if you think the state government is going to fund a track, to not hold your breath.

The opposition (Stephen Wade) on the other hand have come out saying that a new track needs to expedited pronto.

You want to send a very loud and very clear message to the government.....put your $900 in an envelope (when you get it), address it to Mike and ask him to put this in a high interest trust account to help fund a new track. Even if only 1000 people did this, it would hit the front page of the papers and highlight the absolute need out there.

If I qualified I would do it........can I see some hands...........didn't think so.

[dangerman4]

hey Pete you set it up i will chuck in $1000 towards the track if it pays me a .1% return for the next 10 yrs.

[craig R33]

i heard something on the radio this arvo bout it being back to parliment,

dont hold your breath tho!