R34 Traction Issues

[Wacky Dee]

I've had the GTT for almost a year now and honestly can't remember if it's always been like this or only since suspension update ...

Anyway, few months ago I had the Bilsteins and whiteline bushes from SK's groupbuy installed as well as the 'rear subframe alignment kit'. I'm using factory springs lowered about 2cm on the Bilsteins. Pretty decent directional tyres from Maxxis..

Now the problem I'm having is that the car loses traction extremely easily if there are any sort of bumps in the road ESPECIALLY when going into a corner. So much so that I am now in a habit of turning TCS off whenever I get in the car. But even that doesn't help when I go around a corner (and I'm not talking spirited cornerning, just normal speed) and if there are any bumps, potholes etc in the road the car feels like it's losing power. Almost as if the TCS is kicking in (however its turned off) but not quite as violent. So I lose power as if the one or more wheels aren't making contact with the road

Is this axel tramping or something else and what should I be looking at fixing ? Is it just my stock springs being too soft or something? The ride seems pretty harsh since changing to Bilsteins and lowering it on the stock springs..

[R34_Wong]

Have the same issue with my HKS Hipermax's. I believe this is due to the ride being too stiff but I can't really confirm.

Would love to hear more input on this as well.

[blind_elk]

Have you got clearance on the bump-stops?

[Wacky Dee]

how do you mean ?

[djr81]

how do you mean ?

He means most of the Bilstein/Whiteline kit gear comes with a generic bump stop. If the bump stop is not cut to a proper length before installation you end up with a set up that works better as a pogo stick than as car suspension.

[Wacky Dee]

I had heasman's install the new shocks/bump stops etc and seeing as how they're supposed to be good at this sort of stuff I would've hoped they installed the bumpstops correctly .. is there any way to check without taking the shocks out??

[skylinecouple]

From personal experience those Bilsteins are valved way too hard for standard springs. Better suited to King or other stiffer springs. As most will agree, mismatched suspension parts are just as bad as the original worn out suspension. I have a feeling the springs are allowing the shocks to move too quickly and since the shocks are valved to have more resistance per millimeter travelled with stiffer springs they are resisting the fast movement which comes across as a harsh ride. However, those shocks should easily control those springs and not cause a loss of traction.

This would bring us back to the bump stop issue, ah, wait a minute, you said you lowered the springs two cm's. Ok, so perhaps now with a weak spring that is designed to travel a certain distance is now 20mm shorter and allowing the shocks to bottom out regardless of shortened bump stops.

By the way, I can tell you two of the most important things. Good wheel alignment will transform traction problems. I know because I wasn't too impressed with my shock, spring and bush changes till the alignment was done and it all just started working well. The other is the pinapple installation in the squat position. Car just sits on the road like glue now. 264rwkw's and it just takes off like a scolded cat.

[GUN_METAL_GTR32]

u should have gotten hsd coilovers.

i used to have really bad axel trramp with my old stock suspension ( a little worn out ) now i have no traction loss.

how wide r the wheels u have also.

cheers

[sloazr33]

I've had the GTT for almost a year now and honestly can't remember if it's always been like this or only since suspension update ...

Anyway, few months ago I had the Bilsteins and whiteline bushes from SK's groupbuy installed as well as the 'rear subframe alignment kit'. I'm using factory springs lowered about 2cm on the Bilsteins. Pretty decent directional tyres from Maxxis..

snip...

how did you lower the factory springs? did you cut them with a grinder?

with SK's kit, the Bilsteins are supposed to be used with springs that are stiffer than standard. (Whiteline / Eibach)

sounds like mis-matched parts to me

also, if you have lowered the car and have not had a rear camber kit installed, you may have too much rear camber which would add to the problem

[Wacky Dee]

camber bushes (whiteline) were installed back and front .. as well as pineapples (aka "subframe alignment kit") The stock springs were NOT cut .. the Bilsteins just has extra circlip grooves cut into them by Heasmans to adjust the height.

Heasman had aligned the wheels as well ... but it was one helluva quick alignment. I might just try get a proper alignment somewhere else. If that still doesn't work, I'll get new springs installed. I've been quoted $750 for new springs supplied and installed .. some aussie brand, not Kings. The place is pretty reliable from what I hear (Eastcoast Suspension) .. or should I stick to Kings?

Edit: oh yeah just remember the brand ..Lovells ? Does that seem like a fair price for supply/install?

Edited April 16, 2009 by Delta Force

[skylinecouple]

Most springs you have heard of like King or Lovell's or whiteline Eibach, Pedders are all good. I think my King standard lows were 3.5kg rear and 4.5kg front, but thats a R33. I find them a little soft and think the 4.5kg rear and 5.5kg front would be better. So I guess what I'm saying is get the King springs or Lovell's but ask for thei standard low but one kilo heavier. The wife's R34 has Tein super streets and I love them. Wish they fit my car cause she wouldn't know the difference. They are stiffer than the king springs and the shock control is near perfection.

[Wacky Dee]

so when you actually get new springs like say the Lovells you can ask for a specific spring rate ?? Or do they come with a predefined spring rate depending whether they're "lows" or "super lows" ?

I'd love to improve the ride quality .. the bilsteins + stock springs = VERY harsh ride and you can feel every bump. So what do you reckon should I be asking in terms of spring rate as I want to lower it another 2cm more than it currently is (its already 2cm lower than stock using the Bilstein circlip grooves)

[Wacky Dee]

Just spoke to eastcoast suspension ... he said the Lovells would be about 30% stiffer than stock springs but nowhere near 4.5kg like you mentioned, probably about 3Kg (still waiting for confirmation) and he said the stiffer springs (4.5Kg) would be a different kind (racing spring) but would be a lot costlier as other stuff would need changing too ..

I am getting so confusored now ... what do you reckon is the spring rate on the stockies ?? And would going to these standard Lovells actually improve my ride quality being that they're stiffer springs, keeping in mind I'll go 2cm lower than car is currently.. Thanks

[Wacky Dee]

Just heard back from them and they're saying the Lovells springs are 140lbs (2.5Kg/cm) front (??!?!?) and 160lbs (2.8Kg/cm) rear .. I woulda thought fronts would be stiffer but anyway. Does this seem too soft ? Should I go for some other brand springs ?

Edited April 17, 2009 by Delta Force

[sloazr33]

Just heard back from them and they're saying the Lovells springs are 140lbs (2.5Kg/cm) front (??!?!?) and 160lbs (2.8Kg/cm) rear .. I woulda thought fronts would be stiffer but anyway. Does this seem too soft ? Should I go for some other brand springs ?

they sound a bit soft to me; sound like standard spring rates.

i have the whiteline spring part numbers from the SK group buy if you want them

[Wacky Dee]

do you have the whiteline springs with bilsteins? how are they ..harsh ride ? Yeah part numbers would be nice if it's for R34 GT-T. Any ideas what the spring rates are on those?

[sloazr33]

woops my bad, the part numbers i have are for a R33 gtst, i forgot you have a R34

[skylinecouple]

Yes Denis those spring rates seem stock to me. However, do the research and find out for yourself. Try Whiteline and Pedders. By the way, Someone like Slide in the sales forum might be able to get some Jap springs designed for your car. My set up I really liked was the King standard lows with KYB Exel-G shocks which are slightly stiffer than standard but much cheaper than Bilsteins. Put these with the whiteline adjustable sway bars front and rear and all the bushes to correct camber and castor, pineapples and diff bushes and you will have a weapon of a car. Put the front bar on the 2nd hole from the end and rear bar same ie: hard setting. Handling is flat as a tack and simply will not lose grip unless you really provoke it.

If you go too low be prepared to get a yellow sticker on your windscreen and besides, too low will not give you a fast road car but a fast track car and the difference would be negligable on the track anyway. The last thing you will want is to hit a large dip in the road half way round a fast corner and end up jumping a meter across the road. THAT's why the RTA and the rest don't allow it, common sense really.

[nuffsaid]

Hey Denis, stock R34 rates are like 2.8k front and rear.

Kings will be around the 3.1k mark

[Wacky Dee]

yeah I'll give these Lovells a miss then ..will ask if they can get the whitelines in instead. Thanks guys

Oh and as for lowering ..didn't intend to dump it on its ass .. there's still like a 3cm gap between top of the tyre and the guards so I though another 2cm lower wouldn't look too sus as far as cops go and would look nicer as well

Edited April 17, 2009 by Delta Force