Confused By Response Of Reputable Tuner

[DaveO74]

The last two posts are very fair points and I understand both points of view of the tuner v customer but on the flipside isnt part of being a "Car enthusiast" (I sound like a shannons ad!) the enjoyment of learning how your car works and the thrill of see the results of your own modifications?

If you do the homework and ask questions on places like these Forums that danger of damage is minimised on both sides in my opinion.

[N1GTR]

While i also can see that side of the story, what about places like Hitman?

Hitman wouldnt be doing the mechanical work on every car he tunes. As i understand the operation out there, its tune tune tune. A couple of old members on here have built their cars at home and gone there for tunes, Hitman was just going on their word for what was done to the car. Although, from a tuners point of view, it doesnt hurt to be selective with who's car you work on and whose you dont.

[DaGr81]

You got CRD to install it, get them to tune it...sure they have a lot of customers but hell your paying for them to make time to tune it. That way you have atleast stuck with the same workshop

[DaveO74]

Fair point, looks as though CRD are one of the only ones that will touch the EMU anyway. So until I can source a PFC that's what I'll have to do.

I did get a reply back from the tuner I was talking about in my original post and in a nutshell the EMU is the problem, I'll add the full response when I get home from work as it will take too long on the iPhone.

DrGr81-the only reason I was going to switch workshops is that this guy is known to be one of the best in the business so I thought it wouldn't hurt to try him out

[NZM.031]

so youve done the work and learnt how your car works.... now learn how the emu works and grab a wideband o2 sensor and tune it yourself.

[DaveO74]

UPDATE

Sorry for the very late update people, been flat out with work, the new baby and putting the 33 back together so I have only been browsing a little every few days.

Ok the tuner got back to me and most of you were on the money, it appears that all the trouble with the E-Manage Blue has made people steer very clear of the E-Manage Ultimate in my opinion.

The reply was as follows:

"Hi Dave,

In summary EMU has its limitations, especially when you change air flow meter and injectors. I won't go into technical details of it, but I can say that the tune ends up as a compromise. Some of the shortfalls are not perceivable from a driver's point of view, but can leave the tuner feeling uneasy and is uncomfortable with what they see. Some tuners simply won't have a problem with this and get the job finished and call it done.

There is a risk here for us that the car may not end up meeting our standards for tuning, eventhough it might feel fine when driven. We don't like to take a chance with a car enthusiast not loving a tune that they got done at XXX as all of our new business is "word of mouth" only. For this reason we sometimes may have to turn people away

XXX possibly felt the same way we do about the EMU, and hence were not too interested in it.

XXX obviously feel different as they seem to fit EMU to lots of cars. In my opinion, this is not because they believe EMU is great. I have heard a rumour from Greddy Aust sales rep that XXX landed a very large shipment of them at a very attractive price directly from Japan when they were the Greddy distributors. To move these units, I feel they were sold and fitted to a lot of cars where there were better alternatives to EMU, as the profit margins were high. The same sales rep also told me that EMUs popularity within XXX is falling rapidly since they have to now purchase through Greddy Aust and profit margins are narrower.

EMU does work rather well in most instances, but in your case compromises will have to be made. It is also not hard to see that EMU failed to gain much popularity with Skyline owners for that same reason.

Hope this clears things up, and we look forward to the possibility of gettting involved in one of your projects in the future."

So there you have it. Cant say that Im happy about it but what can I do? I have one installed so ill have to wait until i can afford something better. I wonder what URAS would say about all this?

Hope you all had fun at the trackday you lucky buggers! Im sure ill get to one one day and put faces to all the names

Ill post up some pics of my 33 once its back together.

Thanks to N1GTR and evil_weevil for your advice on my PM's and A&B Motorsport who kindly offered to have a look at it for me but Im a little far away from them.

[N1GTR]

You didnt edit the name out 100%

[DaveO74]

Oops my bad, Edited.

Thanks Steve

[STATUS]

UPDATE

Sorry for the very late update people, been flat out with work, the new baby and putting the 33 back together so I have only been browsing a little every few days.

Ok the tuner got back to me and most of you were on the money, it appears that all the trouble with the E-Manage Blue has made people steer very clear of the E-Manage Ultimate in my opinion.

The reply was as follows:

"Hi Dave,

In summary EMU has its limitations, especially when you change air flow meter and injectors. I won't go into technical details of it, but I can say that the tune ends up as a compromise. Some of the shortfalls are not perceivable from a driver's point of view, but can leave the tuner feeling uneasy and is uncomfortable with what they see. Some tuners simply won't have a problem with this and get the job finished and call it done.

There is a risk here for us that the car may not end up meeting our standards for tuning, eventhough it might feel fine when driven. We don't like to take a chance with a car enthusiast not loving a tune that they got done at XXX as all of our new business is "word of mouth" only. For this reason we sometimes may have to turn people away

XXX possibly felt the same way we do about the EMU, and hence were not too interested in it.

XXX obviously feel different as they seem to fit EMU to lots of cars. In my opinion, this is not because they believe EMU is great. I have heard a rumour from Greddy Aust sales rep that XXX landed a very large shipment of them at a very attractive price directly from Japan when they were the Greddy distributors. To move these units, I feel they were sold and fitted to a lot of cars where there were better alternatives to EMU, as the profit margins were high. The same sales rep also told me that EMUs popularity within XXX is falling rapidly since they have to now purchase through Greddy Aust and profit margins are narrower.

EMU does work rather well in most instances, but in your case compromises will have to be made. It is also not hard to see that EMU failed to gain much popularity with Skyline owners for that same reason.

Hope this clears things up, and we look forward to the possibility of gettting involved in one of your projects in the future."

So there you have it. Cant say that Im happy about it but what can I do? I have one installed so ill have to wait until i can afford something better. I wonder what URAS would say about all this?

Hope you all had fun at the trackday you lucky buggers! Im sure ill get to one one day and put faces to all the names

Ill post up some pics of my 33 once its back together.

Thanks to N1GTR and evil_weevil for your advice on my PM's and A&B Motorsport who kindly offered to have a look at it for me but Im a little far away from them.

I have not read the whole thread but the person who wrote the above email brings some valid points to the table, i too have had in the past to pull EMU's from cars that they did not really suit,

For example i have a good customer running a fully built RB30/25 with cams and a GT3076, whilst this is a pretty simple setup the EMU is not all that well suited as the factory base maps the EMU modifies is based on a 2.5l.... boost cut needs to be clamped early which leaves to much "adjustments" or "Comprimises" as posted above.

I currentley have a 300rwkw 180sx in with EMU that i have built for a customer the car started off with the aim of 250rwkw but a full house build and TRUST turbo kit has raised the power levels to a point that makes me uncomfortable tuning the EMU as to get 300rwkw out of the EMU will involve way too much work and comprimise especially in the timing tables.

The EMU "was" a great budget ecu as it was well under a grand all up before the aud went south and for many applications it was more than adeqate and i still have no issues tuning one but i do like to set a general rule of thumb of less than <260-270rwkw, One good this is you still have the factory KNOCK maps to drop back into if you get bad fuel etc.... I find the biggest issue with badly tuned EMU's that come in for assesment get tuned by tuners unfamiliar with factory ecu's. They tend to tune in the factory ecu's KNOCK map. Whilst tuning a EMU one must contiually check the ECU has not switched over, it is as simple as saving what you are doing and shutting the car down for a few minutes and then continuing on. A car tuned in the knock map will tend to exhibit random fits, pinging and fueling issues.

We do alot of R34's andJZX100 chasers as PFC's are scarce (kill JZX auto's if shift pressures tuned incorrectly) and the EMU is very JZX Auto friendly.

i reckon your car should work fine however im not sure what the expected output of that particular hypergear is (i find the hypergears are built one by one and everytime i get one they are differrent).

If your aim is 250rwkw im confident the EMU will be perfectley fine, there are a few tips though. The emanage likes highflow injectors on Rb25's etc as the lag times stay constant, many tuners find setting the lag time compesation very tricky. If pays to ignore the lag numbers and concentrate on the lambda.. ie concentrate on the result not the numbers. If looking over 250rwkw then i highly reccomend using the optional map sensor.

cheers Trent

i hope it makes some sense, ive just returned from the v8 supercars at winton and am still fairly pissy Biante cars were the highlight BTW

Edited May 3, 2009 by URAS

[Guilt-Toy]

i can get you a power fc for r33 gtst for $1250 with h/c

let me know if your interested.

[Liz]

Glad you got a good answer out of them in the end. It's awesome seeing a tuner turn away something because they don't believe they can acheive something that you want to achieve out of it!

Upfront honestly! It helps!!!

Liz.

[evil_weevil]

Thats a pretty good responce from the tuner.

I wouldnt let that responce be turned away if you get another ECU, esp if Anthony - guilt toy can get you the powerFC for that price - Dave, I would still consider using that tuner if in your budget, you could get another ecu, but it always comes back to what you want, what falls within your budget mate!

Any other questions, feel free to pm!

No dramas for the pm's mate,

[DaveO74]

Liz/Chris,

I understand what your saying and your right. What i meant by not being happy about it is the fact im kind of stuck with the EMU for a bit until I can afford the PFC but thats the way things go I spose If only Guilt-Toy contacted me a few weeks before the baby was born eh! hehehe

It was a bit of a gamble getting the EMU and its better than nothing, as I said before, at the time PFC's were thought to be almost finished (For 33 GTST's anyway) and were dam expensive back then because I think the market went into a bit of a "panic" so to speak with the chip supplier problems or whatever it was.

I still believe the tuner in question is one of the best around and I appreciate his honesty and I will use his services one day, thats why I didnt want to publicly name him. Im glad to have an explanation and from what he and Trent (URAS) have said I do understand.

Its not all bad as Ive still got a ways to go before im above 250odd rwkw so the EMU is capable for now.

Thanks again for the advice people. I better send Guilt-Toy a PM.

So are you guys gonna give me some tips when I can get to a track day soon?

[evil_weevil]

I can teach you what not to do at the track...just watch me

[DaveO74]

Maybe we could start a new style of racing

[Liz]

look, there is nothing wrong with a few 'off's', ok?

[DaveO74]

Hey Liz didn't you used to live around Galston?......I know that car

[Liz]

yeah i did dude!

[yogi000]

liz, you coming up for any track days?

[DaveO74]

yeah i did dude!

And now I must be the only import driver there....I feel so lonely surrounded be falcodores:)