Importing "etiquette"

[Messiah]

Hi all,

As some of you may have noticed i'm currently looking to to purchase an import, quite possible involving importing from japan.

Now i have spoken to some people about this however i'm wondering about the do's and donts when it comes to searching for the right car and dealing with brokers.

Can anyone advise me what is or isnt "bad form", eg is dealing with more than one broker a good or bad thing, or a waste of time entirely as they might all be looking at the same sources.

If you've asked a broker to look for a vehicle (but havent paid any fees) should you automatically restrict your dealings to him only.

Also what about the obligations of the broker, if your looking for a fairly specific vehicle, should you only expect emails/calls from them when one that fits the bill exactly comes up, or should you expect some kind of "nothings come up, but keep an eye on this space or have a look at some almost-rights i found".

As i'm being pretty specific when it comes to what i'm looking for i dont know what time frame i should be looking at or how pro-active i should be in finding a car that fits the bill. Above all i just want to make sure i do what i can to find the car i want while not messing around the people i'm dealing with.

Cheers

Simon

Edited April 21, 2009 by Messiah

[PRIMO]

Whats the car your chasing .... specifics?

[Messiah]

Whats the car your chasing .... specifics?

see http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Pr...ck-t264991.html for the full details

[Chris Rogers]

depends on what you are chasing. when I had iron chef chasing a car for me he sent me several cars a week and I picked one out. from there its game on.

[Iron Chef]

In most cases, brokers will all have access to the same cars - one of the worst mistakes people make is enlisting the services of more than one broker, only to end up bidding against themselves at auction.

As for contact, it really depends on how busy the broker is as to whether or not you'll be contacted when there are no suitable cars. It does often take a while, depending on how rare the car is you're looking for.

[Messiah]

Yeah thats kind of what i thought. My main concern was simply that if i'm looking for something rare or specific was if its a case of sit and wait or if i should be taking other proactive steps.

My main problem is that at times i can be an impatient bugger so i tend to want to do "something" to try and help the process along.

That said Kristian, you know the business (thats why your my broker after all) so i guess i'll just have to sit tight and hope japan gets sick of black v35's and decides to sell them all.

[Beer Baron]

talk to a few brokers first. ask them where they source cars, where they are physically in japan or where their partners are in japan. see if you can get an idea of if they know a lot about the specific model you are after. some exporters/importers will know lots about evos and know just what to look for. some will know lots about skylines etc. so pick one that preferably knows a lot about the model or at least the brand you're after. and pick one that you trust.

then, choose one broker and one only to start searching for cars for you. it's not fair to have a whole bunch of guys spending time on your behalf if you're only going to end up buying off one. and as mentioned above it's counter productive. all decent guys will have on-line access with an account for the 60 or so dealer auctions in japan. and on top of that they will have other areas they have dealt with like car yards in their local area, other japanese wholesalers etc. but generally, not always, but most of the time the best cars and the best buys will be from auction.

as for how often they contact you. well everyone is different but mostly guys will be looking for a range of cars for people at one time. so it doesn't hurt to call say once or twice a week to ask how things are going. that will help keep you in the front of their mind as they are searching through cars. the big auctions are thu, fri and sat (well for me anyway). so calling on wednesday or thursday to ask if they've seen anything coming up that is worth looking at is a good idea. be aware that each auction runs only once a week. so if a particular auction houses day is thursday the run the auction on thursday and then spend the rest of the week clearing out the sold cars, and filling up and grading the new cars coming in. they do this right up till the day before the auction, so most sites that list the cars wont have a complete list till the day before. though they generally have most cars 48hrs before. this means you need to be contactable so the broker can ring and email you cars that look promising and if you're interested let them know and they will check it in person at the auction. you need to make sure you are contactable on auction day to talk to the guy while he's there on the ground and get his take on that car, and then let him know what your max bid is for that particular car. generally the buyer will tell you what he thinks is a realistic bid for that particular car. if you trust them take their advice and adjust your bid accordingly. if you don't trust them then you need to deal with someone else.

another piece of etiquette is pay on time. have your funds ready so you can pay your buyer for the car and his FOB fee the day after he has won the car for you (or the next business day). he doesn't want to call you with the great news that he's won you a car only to be told: "I just have to sell my pulsar with the sick system and chromies that I want $15K for and I'll get you the money then. it shouldn't be long the car is fully hot, should sell straight away". it's not fair on the guy. especially if they have 5 customers who are slow to pay at once it can just about bury an exporter if he owes the auction house for 5 X 5 million yen cars. if he doesn't have enough money to cover you guys he can loose his auction access which will make things very difficult. and even if he does have the money he shouldn't have to be shelling out for cars for you.

so my advice is:

-pick one broker/exporter and one only

-have ALL the money you need ready before you start and pay each bill straight away. they will love you for it.

-be honest about your total budget for the car landed complied and on the road.

- be very clear about your 'want list' and let them know what is and what is not of top importance on that list

-take the experts advice on what is/is not a realistic price to bid for a particular car. they will grow to hate you if they keep turning up quality cars only to have you give them tiny low ball bids that they know will not win the car before they even start. it wastes their precious time at auction. eventually they will stop showing you the top shelf cars and start looking for cars in your bid range which means you'll end up with a lesser car.

-buy the upper end of cars. it's always worth paying a little more for the cars with a better grade, with lower kms, with books etc. don't skimp on the actual car bid price.

- don't call the poor bloke every day to ask what's happening. once or twice a week is ok, but no more than that.

- say please and thank you.

- enjoy.

[Beer Baron]

oh, and a black 350 is pretty rare. and a manual is pretty rare too. and a black manual is really rare! but I just had a little look for you and I found one coming up. it would be perfect for you. leather seats, 6 speed man, grade is ok at 4.5B. has the premium bose audio etc too. could be a nice car. would need to be checked in person to tell (sheets are sometimes waay off). anyway, if you've already engaged a broker he should have shown it to you by now. if not hire me and I'll buy it for you

[Beer Baron]

it's quite a tasty car. if you are ready to buy definitely get someone to check it out, and if it's good... BID! you wont see this combo of leather/black/manual/04 model pop up too often and it's quite rare to see manuals with nice options. call your broker today if you've already engaged one.

[Iron Chef]

oh, and a black 350 is pretty rare. and a manual is pretty rare too. and a black manual is really rare! but I just had a little look for you and I found one coming up. it would be perfect for you. leather seats, 6 speed man, grade is ok at 4.5B. has the premium bose audio etc too. could be a nice car. would need to be checked in person to tell (sheets are sometimes waay off). anyway, if you've already engaged a broker he should have shown it to you by now. if not hire me and I'll buy it for you

Surely USS Tokyo would be accurate in their gradings...*insert choking noise*

[Messiah]

Well that all seems fair enough (i'm referring to Beer Barons biiiiiiggg post btw), thats probably the most complete, straight forward and succint summary i've seen around really, it might be a good idea to stick it in the importing FAQ.

I'd imagine is pretty hard for a broker to find a polite way of saying "crap all happens for most of the week so dont bug me all the time, i'll tell you when stuffs happening" without sounding like they're just brushing someone off.

So yeah, based on the above i'm going to do what i've been doing so far, which is stick with the one broker, but with the addition of shutting the F up for most of the week and letting him get on with his job.

IC, is there some inside joke regarding USS Tokyo that i'm not aware of?

Also am i reading this right, it says grade 4.5b, however it looks like they have "scratch - fist sized" labelled on almost every panel.

Also does anyone have a link to a translated version of one of those sheets just so i can see what the different sections mean?

[Iron Chef]

You have to kind of understand the typically ambiguous nature of the Japanese language to truly appreciate it, but USS Tokyo only seems to grade their cars on the bits you can see, so you can theoretically have a grade 4.5 with rust underneath so bad that you can punch your fist through the floor. That's why it's so important to have someone there to check it out.

That sheet reads pretty well to me - you have the rest of the translation via email already

[Beer Baron]

it's unlikely that the scratches are actually the size and shape of a fist. that is just a rough guide that my auction access provider puts at the side of each screen. A1 is the smallest graded scratch. so it could be anything from a tiny 1mm long faint buffable scratch to a 15mm long deeper scratch. often very small scratches aren't graded at all. again this is why you never buy cars on-line like some less caring people do. you need to have someone on the ground who knows their shit and cares about your repeat business to inspect the car for you. otherwise you are relying on a team of lowly paid auction house employees who grade up 10,000 cars a week and will whose goal is to have as many cars sold as possible. so it's in their interest to be 'kind' with their gradings. I mean they are not outright dishonest, but they would each do hundreds of cars a day and spend a very short period of time with each car. you also need someone good inspecting. many buyers will not look that closely as they know most importers will not give them much repeat business. since they only get paid for cars they buy would they rather inspect 10 cars for you over the course of 2 weeks, or inspect 1 car and encourage you to buy that? take a guess. they get the same money in each case. again, that's why you need people you can trust.

yes you're right for many buyers in japan they are limited to a couple of the local auctions near where they live, and they may travel to 1 or 2 others like osaka or USS T once a fortnight or so. many guys have contra deals though with other buyers in other parts of japan to inspect and buy cars for them at their local auctions. so they can safely buy from a range of places.

anyway, like I said, the sheet for the car reads nicely. but I only ever use a sheet as a guide on whether are car is worth the trouble of inspecting. never use the sheet to decide to buy or not buy a car. if the sheet looks good, then the car needs inspection. that is what you use to decide. because whoever you have inspecting the car can look over it properly.

sometimes a grade 4.5 car is rubbish, could be a heavy smokers car, who lived on a snow field in sapporo so it stinks and is full of rust. and other times a 4.5 could be a little old lady who was a car nut and lived in a nice apartment in shinagawa who only took the car on nice long drives once a week and kept it garaged and serviced every 6 months. no way to tell from the sheet. this is why the guy who inspects for you and bids for you is the most important link in the chain.

[Iron Chef]

I should copy-and-paste this and send it to HPI lol

[Beer Baron]

well they did use about half a dozen of my photos in issue 105 or 104 (i forget which) of auctions, big freighter etc and no credit given! bastards! lol. and autosalon mag were keen on buying pics of mine from drifting and tokyo auto salon etc, but in the end for the money I could get as a non-pro photographer outweighed the fact that I'd lose IP over the pics. and I wouldn't have been able to share them with people for free via the forum etc. so I kept them

[Messiah]

funny you should mention that i work for news ltd and very closely with cars guide so if you guys dont mind i might pull some of this for a story/blog that i'm thinking about working on.

I was going to ask you about that in the not too distant future too Kristian, i was just waiting on us finding and securing a car before i pumped u for more info.

currently pondering 2 stories, one is about the mess i've made of my current import and me trying to get in engineered... the other about the trials and tribulations of importing your own car from japan.

[Iron Chef]

I should mention that I've been doing a bit of writing for HPI, and will also have a regular column, I think from the next issue onwards, but if News Ltd pays better Simon, let me know haha. Richard if you want your name in lights, let me know. Maybe I can write something encoded in the article, like "Reluctantly, I couldn't handle any recalcitrant drivers"...

[Messiah]

well, if you dont mind and its not a conflict of interest i'd still like to look at writing an account of my experiences. I figure that it might be a good thing to increase awareness of the import process/options to an audience that might not normally look into the grey import scene.

general stuff really... why i chose to import (basically great value when compared to equivalent specs of adm cars) the problems and hurdles you'd need to be aware of, etiquette like i asked about earlier, some info about some of the people who work as import brokers, all wrapped up in a kind of diary of my experiences.

kinda like the HPI project car stories.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Messiah

[JGTC]

Alot of good information in this thread, cheers Richard and Kristian, i'm looking to import a N/A R34 for the first time so every bit of information helps.

Cheers,

Danny

[Messiah]

Alot of good information in this thread, cheers Richard and Kristian, i'm looking to import a N/A R34 for the first time so every bit of information helps.

Cheers,

Danny

hey, hey! HEY!!! dont forget to thank me for asking n stuff...

shheeesshh.... people these days