Recommended Coilovers For Street Drifting?

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i'm building a car for track drifting, but not competitive in any way

[funkymonkey]

I have a set of Ohlins struts and springs, 10k front and 12k rear, which I use for track and street. Its bumpy as fuck and I can never keep cup of coke without spillage from a trip to maccas. the struts and springs are matched and lowers the car to a very useable height. Combined with some roll centre adjusters and roll bars I've found this to be my perfect track combination. Leagues better than any off the shelf "coilover" IMHO. I also have a ceffy which has a more sedate spring rate for daily driving Plus I also have a set of stock suspension in my garage, in case the constabulary question my strange taste in suspension.

I doubt many guys who buy coilovers EVER adjust the fuckers. When you know what spring rate you want and what height you want your car to sit at, just buy the best strut n spring combo you can afford. Guranteed more bang for buck than coilovers which you'll install once then never touch again unless you get defected (and even then you'll only put it up till its cleared). Anyone that claims to use the adjustable dampening or height on a regular basis is on crack. I've found most guys I know with street cars adjust theirs maybe once a year at best.

[gslrallysport]

i think you'd be better off with cheap coils, sways, pineapples, castor and camber, than just a set of good coils and stock everything else

Again I think you'd be wrong because in a drift car you want ZERO castor... Piss off this idea that hard springs resulting in fark all traction is how you drift, because it's not...

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

isn't castor affected when you lower the car tho like camber? i'm not a suspension guru by any stretch

i realise that the more grip the better for drifting.... my point was merely financial

i'm assuming you'd have better grip levels with a lowered drift car with all the other bits and cheap coils, as opposed to spending the same cash for good coils but having only 1 inch of your tyres contacting the road due to camber. and a soft body due to stock sway's

[Messiah]

Can anyone comment on the Tein Mono Flex? currently 3kish delivered so not cheap, and where as i have no problems spending the cash for a good product i'd hate to blow 3k on average crap.

I've been thinking about what to do suspension wise for some time but never asked before as everyone has an opinion. Bilstein, koni ohnlins etc are all being considered, but at 3kish do all the above brands offer similar value (and by that i mean performance, quality and durability)?

[gslrallysport]

isn't castor affected when you lower the car tho like camber?

Doesn't matter either way. In a drift car you want zero caster, which is unlike EVERY other aspect of motoring, be it competition or street. A street car is not easily a drift car as the setups are worlds aparts...

i realise that the more grip the better for drifting.... my point was merely financial

I'm questing whether you've actually read anything from the first page... Get past this macca's cred popularity contest of having 'coilovers'. For LESS money than your cheap shitty coilovers you can get lowered springs and a DECENT set of dampers... Again... for LESS money... NOT more...

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i re read your first post, and yes, i understand what you are saying, but doesn't that constitute cheap coils as i was saying?

i wasn't referring to nasty china crap only, i meant all cheaper coilover options

[gslrallysport]

Ok maybe we're all getting a bit mixed up in our terminology... I define

- Cheap coilovers as: G4, D2, K Sport Crap

- Quality coilovers as: DMS, Ohlins, Sachs, Reigers etc.

- Quality Shock/Spring Combo: KYB, Bilstein, Koni Shocks / Kings, Tein, Eibach Springs

Which sort of level are you looking at getting?

[Messiah]

Ok maybe we're all getting a bit mixed up in our terminology... I define

- Cheap coilovers as: G4, D2, K Sport Crap

- Quality coilovers as: DMS, Ohlins, Sachs, Reigers etc.

- Quality Shock/Spring Combo: KYB, Bilstein, Koni Shocks / Kings, Tein, Eibach Springs

Which sort of level are you looking at getting?

excellent... so tein mono flex "could" be considered quality... now to look at the compediters offerings....

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

not too sure yet.... i run greddy's in the skyline and am happ with them as a daily/occasional track car

but the ke70 build is dedicated track on the ultra cheap

its a bare shell SR20det running an r33 turbo and e85 so should see 200rwkw @ around 900kgs so there will be NO problems getting them to turn, hence i'm going for as much grip as i can afford. car will have sway's, struts, pineapples, a weldy and camber definately, and maybe toe... but not right off the bat either way

any suggestions?

[gslrallysport]

excellent... so tein mono flex "could" be considered quality... now to look at the compediters offerings....

When I said Tein I was more referring the springs.

Tein make some very good shocks, it's just unfortunate it's not the stuff that's available off the shelf in Australia...

Australian Andy Pinker nearly won the Rally America National Championship in 2007 on Tein in a market dominated by DMS and Ohlins, but it sure as hell ain't monoflex!

[djr81]

Doesn't matter either way. In a drift car you want zero caster, which is unlike EVERY other aspect of motoring, be it competition or street. A street car is not easily a drift car as the setups are worlds aparts...

Why do you want zero castor?

[nisskid]

Can anyone comment on the Tein Mono Flex? currently 3kish delivered so not cheap, and where as i have no problems spending the cash for a good product i'd hate to blow 3k on average crap.

I've been thinking about what to do suspension wise for some time but never asked before as everyone has an opinion. Bilstein, koni ohnlins etc are all being considered, but at 3kish do all the above brands offer similar value (and by that i mean performance, quality and durability)?

ur better off with a european solution for that

[nisskid]

In a drift car you want zero caster

are u drunk?

[gslrallysport]

Why do you want zero castor?

Zero, or as close as you can get it. Certainly in a drift car you do not want to increase the castor from standard like would in any other car. I'm well aware that castor is sexual chocolate in all forms of motorsport, especially rally where you hit stuff hard, but drifting is a completely different ball game, and most of the good drifters have found reducing castor is the way to go.

Without going into too much details (cause it's well past bedtime!), increasing the castor also increases toe out on turn (TOOT). TOOT basically means that the wheels actually point in different directions when you roll lock on... this is fantastic on a grip setup, because the inside wheel does actually physically take a tighter line. During a drift however, the front of the car isn't prescribing the same arc as you would in a normal turn, so having any amount of TOOT makes it harder to maintain a drift once you're in it. It also affects on-turn camber and ride height to come degree (which in turn effects weight transfer), but the main aim of reducing castor in a drift car is to reduce the TOOT.

The pro-castor people will argue that castor helps return the steering wheel to neutral between corners (making it easier to link), but the ability to control the car better at a higher speed usually offsets the "letting go of the steering wheel" argument.

[08r3308]

i have hsd, im happy what i paid for them and they suit my daily driving.

also to add my brother runs isc in his 180 and they are fine.

i got my hsd for a price i could not resist otherwise i would go isc as well.

even tho i didn't purchase coil overs from isc ryan was there to help when i got stuck .

Plus if you buy local you get warranty that will get sorted out quick if anything goes wrong

ps gearus

did you own mx6?

Edited April 28, 2009 by 08r3308

[nisskid]

Zero, or as close as you can get it. Certainly in a drift car you do not want to increase the castor from standard like would in any other car. I'm well aware that castor is sexual chocolate in all forms of motorsport, especially rally where you hit stuff hard, but drifting is a completely different ball game, and most of the good drifters have found reducing castor is the way to go.

Without going into too much details (cause it's well past bedtime!), increasing the castor also increases toe out on turn (TOOT). TOOT basically means that the wheels actually point in different directions when you roll lock on... this is fantastic on a grip setup, because the inside wheel does actually physically take a tighter line. During a drift however, the front of the car isn't prescribing the same arc as you would in a normal turn, so having any amount of TOOT makes it harder to maintain a drift once you're in it. It also affects on-turn camber and ride height to come degree (which in turn effects weight transfer), but the main aim of reducing castor in a drift car is to reduce the TOOT.

The pro-castor people will argue that castor helps return the steering wheel to neutral between corners (making it easier to link), but the ability to control the car better at a higher speed usually offsets the "letting go of the steering wheel" argument.

is this a theory ur relying on, or has it been proven that castor is bad for drift? AFAIK every top level drift car runs aftermarket castor arms to get more castor than standard (usually around 7 degrees or more).

the added response and wheel return outweighs any possible mid corner issues, thats where added lock comes in to play, to give more lock to hold more mid drift angle.

dont underestimate how important quick transitions and initiations are in drift.

[nisskid]

as far as people who have just put cheap coilovers in and are "happy" with them, you give a starving kid from etheopia a big mac and they are gonna think its a great meal, doesnt mean it is.

[Kaido_RR]

Doesn't matter either way. In a drift car you want zero caster, which is unlike EVERY other aspect of motoring, be it competition or street. A street car is not easily a drift car as the setups are worlds aparts...

??

incorrect.

my personally setup for my r33 which was drifted on a regular had 6-7degress of castors, noted it was maybe alittle too much and next wheel alignment we were going to drop it down to 4-5degress But i would never run ZERO castors. Also having a chat to alot of other drifters at the meets they were running castor upwards of 4 degrees.

My 2cent on cheap coilovers, For the money you pay $1000-$1500 they do a fairly well rounded job, they are nothing special and i found my damper adjustment really didn't change anything at all but i was running 1/2nd gen d2 coilovers with huge spring rates (15/17kg if i remember right) i daily the car for 2-3 years.

I now run TEIN Type RS (10/10kg) cost upwards of 5k (and are not an off the shelf product for r33 anymore have to be special order), and the cars feels like its on rails and does the job i want it to do perfectly but thats what you get when you pay big dollars

Edited April 28, 2009 by [Michael]

[nisskid]

when i went to 10 degrees from 4-5 degrees it was a dream to drive. im now back down to 7 degrees and its still great.