Pontiac Is Officially Dead

[Duncan]

lol I agree. saab is the only one from that list that will be worth missing

[Burbre]

Is hummer actually goin down? Shite, how bad is the recession....

[frx026]

From what I know through some industry contacts, I can tell you that GM Aust is now trying to sell commodores directly in the US under the GM badge as police cars.

GM Aust has built one protype car for the LAPD. It is based on the VE however the equipment list is different from the Aust spec VE's used for our police.

The reason for this is that the americans require a large car with load carrying capacity and a V8 engine for pursuit. Ford US currently makes a car for most law enforcement in the USA, however this car has been scrapped under the Ford restructure that Obama made happen in order for Ford to get a $9bil us loan.

GM Aust have also shown this new prototype to Russia and several european countries. Most of Europe gave it a very cold shoulder.

GM Aust are hinging their hopes on the sale of this car to US authorities, it would represent about 70,000 vehicles per annum and would ensure that GM Holden stays in operation in Aust.

There are several things that could cause this to fail.

- US car unions not allowing that volume as imports

- GM USA going under

- The car failing field tests

- Aust unions and work shut downs

- Aust component manufacturers going under and GM not having the bits to build the cars.

If GM Aust was to fail there are several viable options.

- All manufacturing moved to either Thailand or china or commodore

- No commodore or variants and all GM product imported

- Manufacturing her in Aust closed and moved to existing plants in either Thailand or China

It Would effect tier 1 and teir 2 parts suppliers here in Aust as well as many dealerships who have already had to battle with loosing floor plan finance and are currently running the lowest amount of new car stocks in around 20 years.

Many teir 1 and teir 2 component suppliers would most likely close. And those that dont close would have to lay off staff to survive. Which is what happened to me 3 weeks ago.

More car dealers would close.

The other factor in Aust to watch out for is the upcoming release of the chinese cars now that a couple of them have been able to pass ADR testing.

The Lifan 520, GWM and Cherry cars will hit the market hard and offer new cars much cheaper than the existing offers from any manufacturer we currently have here.

Sources - GM Holden Marketting, Atteco Aust (importer or Cherry and GWM)

[bozodos]

I'm sceptical about the impact that selling Chinese cars here would make, China is always going to be synonymous with cheap shit.

Interesting comment about the US police car thing though, I imagine there would near be a f**king riot over there if their car manufacturers are all going up the shit and they start to import a shitload of aussie cars to use in their police fleet lol. Would be cool to see though.

[Duncan]

I'm sceptical about the impact that selling Chinese cars here would make, China is always going to be synonymous with cheap shit.

I totally dsagree. Korea is already cleaning up their image quality wise, and let's not forget how japanese cars were viewed in the 70s and 80s. And there was a time when America was seen as building quality cars.

With time we will all be driving chinese cars (or just built in china). And then some other country will start making cheap cars. And so on.

[sr20de]

sadly i fear we are going to be seeing a lot more of this in the not too distant future.

[bozodos]

Well one would have thought that by now the Indian car makers such as Tata would have been able to grab more of a market share here with their cheaparse utes etc. I guess time will tell though.

[sneakey pete]

Ford US currently makes a car for most law enforcement in the USA, however this car has been scrapped under the Ford restructure that Obama made happen in order for Ford to get a $9bil us loan.

Hmm, i didn't think ford actually took up the offer on that government loan, that they were still going it on their own?

[Chris Rogers]

It makes you wonder hey. If the big guys like GM etc are going under, how are the small business owners coping

(OT)

I'm feeling it myself. my yearly takings are down by 1/3 compared to last year.)

(/OT)

they did this to Oldsmobile back in the 90s. thats gone by the wayside.

pontiac - last real ones they did were in the late 60s (GTO) the 90's stuff was crap the 80s stuff wasn't much better. to be honest they were mostly panel swaps anyway. the base frames were the same.

SAAB, there's a worry. swedes will resume that company and it will go on. only thing that affects is opel really. and that doesnt affect this market anyway.

[GTR-32U]

I'm sceptical about the impact that selling Chinese cars here would make, China is always going to be synonymous with cheap shit.

Interesting comment about the US police car thing though, I imagine there would near be a f**king riot over there if their car manufacturers are all going up the shit and they start to import a shitload of aussie cars to use in their police fleet lol. Would be cool to see though.

Yes I agree with you on that one...Knowing how the US will always support local manufacturing as opposed to an import, I very much doubt that Holden will succeed in pulling that deal off. If Holden goes down it would be a catastrophe here. Imagine the follow on effect. Part manufacturers would close down immediately Job losses in the thousands...Time will tell

[W0rp3D]

It makes you wonder hey. If the big guys like GM etc are going under, how are the small business owners coping

Lets not forget that these were poorly run companys with too many execs getting way too much money, i personally think that one of these companys should have been left to rot before the government offered any bail out, that way they would get the message that if you dont start doing things right, your next, the execs are so bad that when they went to meet with the government with there hand out they all went there is seperate personal jets, these are the same people who are saying they are broke and need a hand out.....

Edited May 16, 2009 by W0rp3D

[The_Paladin]

Asides from the jobs of the honest man and the suppliers, if Holden went down, nothing of value would be lost. Seriously.

Their cheap cars cannot compete with the Japanese and their expensive ones cant with the Europeans. GM is a dinosaur that should have died in the iceage. I've got no sympathy for a company that willingly puts a blindfold on and pretends that the world dosent change. GM/Holden's death is inevidable, better now than later. the only way Holden can survive is a complete change in direction.

And remember as well. no commodore drivers = safer roads.

[cosmic starz]

pontiac - last real ones they did were in the late 60s (GTO) the 90's stuff was crap the 80s stuff wasn't much better. to be honest they were mostly panel swaps anyway. the base frames were the same.

-----------------------------------------------------

you took the word right out of my mouth - Pontiac dead - good riddance - never built anything exciting or with super hot body style since the 1966-67 series Pontiac GTOs

GM, Chrysler et al squandered any right to stay in existence a long time ago - look at the Chrysler made garbage on sale here in Australia right now - a rationalised American car making industry is long overdue

[NISMO]

Well one would have thought that by now the Indian car makers such as Tata would have been able to grab more of a market share here with their cheaparse utes etc. I guess time will tell though.

The India cars that i have seen are very different in that they have very small engines and are really only suitable to throwing a couple of grocery bags in the back and putting around a CBD like area.

The cars coming out of China on the other hand are more sized like the sedans we currently see. There uses are a mirror of what we Aussies currently use cars for. So it makes sense why a) we would see them here, and b) why they would sell.

You've gotta remember as well that not everyone buys a car because of it's features/build/performance. Some people really don't give a crap and literally buy something to get them from here to there and more so something as cheap as possible. And if you think this is wrong, please explain the existance of the Holden Camira :-)

[djr81]

The India cars that i have seen are very different in that they have very small engines and are really only suitable to throwing a couple of grocery bags in the back and putting around a CBD like area.

The cars coming out of China on the other hand are more sized like the sedans we currently see. There uses are a mirror of what we Aussies currently use cars for. So it makes sense why a) we would see them here, and b) why they would sell.

You've gotta remember as well that not everyone buys a car because of it's features/build/performance. Some people really don't give a crap and literally buy something to get them from here to there and more so something as cheap as possible. And if you think this is wrong, please explain the existance of the Holden Camira :-)

The existence of the Holden Camira (Wheels Car Of the Year, no less ) can be explained quite simply. It is what happens when a corpulent, out of touch car company decides it needs a new small/medium sized car. Then designs something that may have been half decent were it not so the fact they couldn't design/manufacture a ham sandwich to spec.

As dreadful as the Camira was, you should check out the Cadillac version.

See here:

http://wikicars.org/en/Cadillac_Cimarron

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&...mages&gbv=2

Perhaps even more scary was the Daewoo version foisted on poor, unsuspecting punters years after the Camira had been euthanaised.

None of which explains the Toyota Camry. The anti car if ever there was one.

[NISMO]

The existence of the Holden Camira (Wheels Car Of the Year, no less ) can be explained quite simply. It is what happens when a corpulent, out of touch car company decides it needs a new small/medium sized car. Then designs something that may have been half decent were it not so the fact they couldn't design/manufacture a ham sandwich to spec.

As dreadful as the Camira was, you should check out the Cadillac version.

See here:

http://wikicars.org/en/Cadillac_Cimarron

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&...mages&gbv=2

Perhaps even more scary was the Daewoo version foisted on poor, unsuspecting punters years after the Camira had been euthanaised.

None of which explains the Toyota Camry. The anti car if ever there was one.

bahahahahahaha

Surely you're joking re car of the year?

[djr81]

bahahahahahaha

Surely you're joking re car of the year?

1982. Loud & proud.

[Birds]

Why are people paying out on cars that were designed for a market they successfully found? Just because a car isn't to your liking doesn't mean it did not serve it's purpose for which it was built. Holden's "niche" in the world has always been the family man with two kids, towing trailers/caravans/boats over long distances and relatively shitty roads. It's the reason our affordable sports cars are based on our family sedans and any other attempt at an affordable sports car in Australia is usually met with failure. Australian conditions are one of a kind, and Australian cars last throughout those conditions. You can hate on them as much as you like but they do their job. Then you have the aesthetics of it, wherein many Australians agree that the import companies rob from their design departments and give to their engineering (*cough* Toyota). The Europeans, as nice as they are, are nice for a reason. And the average Australian just can't afford it, hence they are turning to fuel efficient imports. I agree, when it comes to technologies the Australian cars have always been behind on the rest of the world (bar the airbag), but there's only so much you can put in a car and now Holden/Ford are playing catchup on a technological plateau that is now 90% focused on inventing an alternative to petrol. If you haven't been in / test driven some of the latest offerings you might be surprised at the luxuries and quality of them. Then you can convert one to LPG (or better yet liquid injection) and be laughing.

It reminds me of the bullshit argument I hear so often from friends about "this engine producing more power than that engine, despite being half its size", ignorant of how important torque and power bands are to the vehicle's purpose. Diesel engines anyone?

Edited May 18, 2009 by Birds

[fuzzy_scuz]

Wheels car of the year is not a prestigious award when you say the following:

Leyland P76

Holden Camira

In industry circles it means jack. Esp when the major sponsor is..........Holden!!!!!!

If the VE Commodore can get car of the year why not the Falcon with 5 star Ancap across the entire range?

[bozodos]

Sif be Camira hating! those things are near indestructible! same goes for the Camry! They come under the heading of 'good thrashers' lol. Wheels does seem to be targeted towards more the kind of readers who are also into the NRMA/RACV magazines, ie boring baby boomers with a family.

P.S best mate and I did the rounds of the dealers out of boredom last monday, and the build quality of the VE's and FG's we looked at was shithouse, especially the fabrics used in the seats and interior plastics. They both felt flimsy, cheap and ugly, the VT/VX were of much better quality. You can tell where the corners have been cut.