Targa Tasmania

[bigmikespec]

I don't think anyone can deny that the R35 GTR is a brilliant and well engineered car. It is amazing how something that is heavier and less powerful than other cars in its category yet be faster around a track.

However, I think the weight is one area that is a bit of a let down. Imagine if it was 200kg lighter, how much better it would/could be? It may be the difference between a really good car and a great car. Considering they changed every single aspect of the new GTR compared to the others, why didn't they just make it a two seater and apply some extra engineering in making it lighter.

If big fat Americans can get their C6 ZR1 down to around 1500kg why can't the light footed Japanese do the same.

Anyway, my 2c.

PS: so I am not totally OT, congrats to T. Quinn and his GTR!

[skylinecouple]

The older GT-R's stand no chance against the new ones in these events. Infact any of the older cars really don't stand a chance at all. Whilst some of them seem to do ok with some top 20 results they are miles off of where the fast guys are in reality.

All you really need to do is look at the results from even the last 3 years and look at the stage times.

Take The Sideling for example as 2 identical stages done is same conditions (dry). 2006 was won by Steve Glenny in a 2002 STi in 7:54. This year it was won by Weeks in the Lambo in 7:36. Steve's winning 2006 time doesn't even get him in the top 10 these days. And yet he got to use racefuel rather than just 98RON as everyone did this year.

Even this year - look at the final classification for the Mordern V Early Modern. 12 mins seperated the winner of Modern v winner of Early Modern (2002-1992 vehicles). And Rick Shaw is no hack and know's that car of his well.

But these new cars are just so much more capable. We did a straight line test between my R34 (375rwkw's) and my R35 (stock) from 40-200km/hr and the R35 wins by a car length. I still don't know how or why this is the case but it is. And despite being on factory shocks and tyres it also goes around corners better than the R34 on full set-up race tyres. And then there is the gearbox - in Targa I estimate that to be worth 1s/km alone and thats HUGE in this game. The R35 isn't the perfect Tarmac Rally car - there are some..... issues that people need to be aware of and drive around (it doesn't deal well with getting airbourne for example - the computers shut down) - but it's hard to argue that it isn't the best thing going around right now that's for sure. It's just a very capable all round car straight out of the box.

I'm just up-set I can't afford to race one! LOL

FINALLY, someone with some maturity. Thank you. As a discussion this topic, like others on this forum has become quickly heated over a simple statement on weight. You don't have to be an owner to know that something is heavy. Just use your eyes and read the facts. What's next, a supercar that weighs 2 tonnes ? Oh yes, I forgot, the Bugatti Veyron. I expected more from you Mr. Donnon since I've read almost everything you ever wrote. I seem to recall quite a few times criticism over the older GTR's and their weight. Weight is speed you said. La de dah, so what, you have a new GTR. Perhaps if you all weren't so quick to try and put anybody down that dares to criticize the mighty GTR then you would see I believe it to be a great car, just heavy. It doesn't matter that it is cheap compared to it's competitors, nor that it is just amazing to drive and is faster than an R34, I agree whole heartedly in all that. It, like most supercars are heavy. I do understand the simple fact that in order to have 500hp tamed and drivable you have to have a chassis strong enough and the technology to control it. No problems.

I guess for me I'd simply like to see a road registered GTR that is produced by the factory in the same vain as the Porches. Stripped out, no air con, Stereo, sound proofing or anything to slow it down, then we will see just how good it could really be.

[fuzzy_scuz]

+1

[skylinecouple]

I don't think anyone can deny that the R35 GTR is a brilliant and well engineered car. It is amazing how something that is heavier and less powerful than other cars in its category yet be faster around a track.

However, I think the weight is one area that is a bit of a let down. Imagine if it was 200kg lighter, how much better it would/could be? It may be the difference between a really good car and a great car. Considering they changed every single aspect of the new GTR compared to the others, why didn't they just make it a two seater and apply some extra engineering in making it lighter.

If big fat Americans can get their C6 ZR1 down to around 1500kg why can't the light footed Japanese do the same.

Anyway, my 2c.

PS: so I am not totally OT, congrats to T. Quinn and his GTR!

Thank you. Well said. I'd like the more knowledgeable among us to donate some info on tyre wear during the rally.

[Roy]

How good would one be as a potato field plough you reckon?

Shithouse i reckon

And all those saying i have to have driven one to understand...wrong. I dont need to drive one, just like i dont need to have banged either of the below girls or need to know which one is better for a roll in the hay.... i simply know which one i would enjoy better

GTR, muscle and practical...hey boys she can move the fridge, do the yard work and be good at things you cant undersand, while you just eat and drink whats in the fridge she just moved

Or something perhaps not as strong or practical or even competent...but just makes you feel good

[Snowman]

I'm not sure weight is a big an issue as some believe it to be if the car is designed to deal with it.

From the stages I did the most up-hill stage was probably Rossarden and it was won by Steve Jones in his R35 GT-R. The opposite was the down-hill stage where my car struggled the most with brakes (and weighs in at 1694kgs without drivers) was Sheffied - and that was won by Quinn in his R35 GT-R....

Tyres is another unusual fact. None of the top deemed cars (R35, Lambo or Porsche GT2) can run on the top deemed tyres (Dunlops or Kuhmo's) for this event due to not being available in their wheel sizes. Richards and Steve Jones (running 19's on his R35) were on Pirellis, The Lambos run Toyo's and the rest of the R35's were on the factory Dunlops. It doesn't seem to bother any of them too much as far as speed goes and it means they drive flat out with-out any fear of tyre wear despite the weight of these cars. (All are S1 cars which mean they have to run at factory weight).

The chasing pack which all ran softer tyres deemed better suited invariabley had to have tyre changes and consequent penalties even though they were slower. Herridge in the STi and Miedecke in the Daytona for example.

Now I'm not saying a lighter R35 isn't going to be better again because it will - but it's not currently being a huge issue. The only thing you hear is that the brakes get cooked from time to time on these cars but then look at their times/speeds! I expect that to happen!!!!

[skylinecouple]

So the mind boggles of a situation where the GTR's get more grip "and" less weight. Man, I'd like to see that. You begin to understand why Porsche is very worried. I was watching SBS this morning and they are still doing remarkably well in the world market, but at the pricing of $170k they might not lose the very well healed as they don't care how good a Nissan is, they wouldn't be caught dead in one, but may lose their other customers in the lesser categories.

OK, enough of that ! Hey Roy, you have just wrecked me. Because of that first photo I finally know true love. Seriously, Robby Brand is a god among us.

[Roy]

Porsche let tradition get in the way of them building a better car. They know the Cayman platform is the better thing then 911, but stick with engineering the 911 to a point where it is a good tool. The rear engine layout is good for power down and braking, but really...dynamically they need to admist it has had its day and like 9ff if they are going to build an AWD weapon they need to make it a two seater, use the Cayman platform with a clever PSM system and awd, 3.6L of twin turbo goodness. With Nissan engineering a car from scratch to be as good as it is Porsche a putting themselves at a disadvantage trying to keep pace with a floored configuration. Perhaps now that they merged with VW some senisbile people and not romantics engineer the next Porsche....but hope they keep some of the romance alive

[ras1983]

Porsche let tradition get in the way of them building a better car. They know the Cayman platform is the better thing then 911, but stick with engineering the 911 to a point where it is a good tool. The rear engine layout is good for power down and braking, but really...dynamically they need to admist it has had its day and like 9ff if they are going to build an AWD weapon they need to make it a two seater, use the Cayman platform with a clever PSM system and awd, 3.6L of twin turbo goodness. With Nissan engineering a car from scratch to be as good as it is Porsche a putting themselves at a disadvantage trying to keep pace with a floored configuration. Perhaps now that they merged with VW some senisbile people and not romantics engineer the next Porsche....but hope they keep some of the romance alive

Actually Porsche purchased VW. I'm not sure of the legalities but I'm fairly certain that Porsche management calls the shots.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/06/2460294.htm

[Ant97GTR]

Porsche let tradition get in the way of them building a better car. They know the Cayman platform is the better thing then 911, but stick with engineering the 911 to a point where it is a good tool. The rear engine layout is good for power down and braking, but really...dynamically they need to admist it has had its day and like 9ff if they are going to build an AWD weapon they need to make it a two seater, use the Cayman platform with a clever PSM system and awd, 3.6L of twin turbo goodness. With Nissan engineering a car from scratch to be as good as it is Porsche a putting themselves at a disadvantage trying to keep pace with a floored configuration. Perhaps now that they merged with VW some senisbile people and not romantics engineer the next Porsche....but hope they keep some of the romance alive

Well said mate. I don't care if the R35 weighs 2t as long as it is well engineered enough to keep up and beat a manufacturer like Porsche. This will force them to do better and the end result is we will get faster, more capable cars.

[Roy]

Actually Porsche purchased VW. I'm not sure of the legalities but I'm fairly certain that Porsche management calls the shots.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/06/2460294.htm

I am not sure, different reports different stories. Porsche had been buying shares in the VW group and because the way the German stock exchange is structured nobody knew how much they actually owned. Talk was they had a controlling interest in shares, some have the number at 41%. But Porsche had racked up some debt acquiring the shares and i understand after Porsche slowly eating up VW shares VW has raised the white flag and they have merged. ?!?!?!

Either way, Porsche-VW will be a monster, with Porsche now having access to a lot of R&D engineering and boutique production lines for small volume manufacture.

Hope they take on Nissan GTR as the buyers will win in the end with crazy fast cars finding their way onto roads. All while being economical and green ?

[skylinecouple]

How about a Cayman Golf ? Mid engined Porsche power in a shopping trolley with wide guard treatment. Or if you want green, how about a joint venture into gas diesel twin turbine V10 power ? Or if Renault merge with VW then we can have a GTR R35 with a mid mounted V10 twin turbo diesel.

[Gibbo_R35]

Just so you understand, at no time did I say it wasn't a supercar or it didn't handle, by waddling pig I mean it's weight and only it's weight.

I understand what you are saying about weight, however how does this weight impact on the car? Does it hamper it's performance or dynamics, it tracks very very well and accelerates like no ones business. If the car sacrificed a performance aspect for this weight, then yes I would say you are right, however when the "flaw" of this car is not actually a flaw that is when I question an opinion.

As I said, "my opinion". But something I have noticed since they came out is the defensiveness you would find up on "The Mountain" (Mt. Panorama) if someone dares to HAVE an opinion. Up there I've seen knives pulled because someone said Brocky is a fag or my mates punching crap out of each other because one guy's 56' Chevy only beat the other guy's Monaro because it was a big block. Boyish stupidity. They are just cars after all.

I am all for opinions, that is what makes the world go around, what I am against is un-informed opinions. This is not opinion it is ignorance. No one is pulling knives, we are just defending a car that has had so much speculation raised about it, some of which has turned out to be true, the rest not so much. From destroying gear boxes to engines being rebuilt at 100,000km etc.

If your mates are doing this to each other over cars, then I would question the company you keep and the mentality associated with that.

You raised an opinion on a car you have never driven or even ridden in, we challenged you on it to back up your opinion with some kind of fact....the result is ....no fact just speculation. You can qustion our maturity if you like, however it does not distract from the fact that you raised a completely unfounded opinion and then had a cry when we called on you to back it up.

I have owned cars from a lot of different manufacturers, I am not a one eyed supporter of any car, hell I have never owned a GTR before and really not even contemplated buying one until this car, I bought it for it's performance and trackability, I am not even defending my choice of car, because some people will drive it and say it is not for them.....that is fine and I have no issue at all with that....however.....the difference here is that their opinion is an informed one.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Gibbo_R35

[skylinecouple]

Uninformed ? I doubt it. an opinion can never be uninformed, it is an opinion. Read my posts, I never once said the bloody car couldn't perform. Nor do I care that it's weight has not detracted from it's performance, I said, it is merely my opinion it is heavy. I couldn't care less if it can drive up walls carrying Batman and Robin and change direction faster than a crack dealer on the run. Does anybody even remotely remember the whinging going on just a few years ago when our beloved Commondores and Falcons hit over 1600kgs ? 1700kgs is not light for any car. A Lotus is light, an F1 car is light, a GTR is not and yes I know they are a completely different type of car. I have an opinion, I am not opinionated.

An opinion is just that, light hearted comment on a particular subject. I wasn't speculating, I'll leave that for the Stock Market. Speculating would be more of, "I reckon that GTR's a heap of shit, and I'll bet it's because it's too heavy". Though to be saying that I would have to be wearing my King of the Mountain Brocky T-shirt.

I'll leave it there and wish you all well with Targa and the GTR's success. God help anybody else with an opinion.

[Gibbo_R35]

Your right...we are sorry for asking you to explain your opinion...next time we will blindly accept.

I wish you all the best...with your "opinions"

Anyway...I guess the proof of performance is in its results......I suggest taking the short drive down to Macarthur nissan and speak to Maciek and ask to take their car for a test drive. It may just surprise you...then again it may not.

[skylinecouple]

Your right...we are sorry for asking you to explain your opinion...next time we will blindly accept.

I wish you all the best...with your "opinions"

Anyway...I guess the proof of performance is in its results......I suggest taking the short drive down to Macarthur nissan and speak to Maciek and ask to take their car for a test drive. It may just surprise you...then again it may not.

Here's another word for you, "obsessive". Because clearly you can't read. Look at the posts, not every fifth word, a quick scan, but read them. I would like to see some weight shed from the GTR for curiosity's sake. No more than that, no less. I don't want it to be lighter than a And those friends that used to have punch ups over their cars and who's is best ?, over thirty years ago when my elder brother used to hang out with a guy some people might know in drag racing circles called Freddy Dudek. Look up the name, I suppose he is uninformed to ?

After eight years owning my Skyline and reading this forum almost every day no matter where I am in the world I can honestly say I am amazed at the eagerness some of you are displaying to start an argument over someone's post which you clearly have not read. Oh, and since you didn't read the last one I'll explain again, "opinion", don't have to explain it, it's an opinion. Like my opinion of you right now, not much. I hope you do buy a new GTR and it loses it's value going off the showroom floor faster than a virgin in a whore house.

[Godcla]

Your right...we are sorry for asking you to explain your opinion...next time we will blindly accept.

I wish you all the best...with your "opinions"

Anyway...I guess the proof of performance is in its results......I suggest taking the short drive down to Macarthur nissan and speak to Maciek and ask to take their car for a test drive. It may just surprise you...then again it may not.

Just some of the Awards the R35 has collected in a very short time......" World Performance Car 2009 " does it for me.......

Top Gear Awards 2007 - Supercar of the Year 2007

Automobile Magazine - 2009 Automobile of the Year

Evo Magazine Car of the Year 2008

Edmunds - 2009 Edmunds' Inside Line Editors' Most Wanted Awards: Instant Classic

Motor Trend - 2009 Motor Trend Car of the Year

2008 Japan's Most Advanced Technology Award

Popular Mechanics - Automotive Excellence Awards 2008 (Design)

2009 International Car of the Year

World Performance Car 2009

[Gibbo_R35]

Here's another word for you, "obsessive". Because clearly you can't read. Look at the posts, not every fifth word, a quick scan, but read them. I would like to see some weight shed from the GTR for curiosity's sake. No more than that, no less. I don't want it to be lighter than a And those friends that used to have punch ups over their cars and who's is best ?, over thirty years ago when my elder brother used to hang out with a guy some people might know in drag racing circles called Freddy Dudek. Look up the name, I suppose he is uninformed to ?

After eight years owning my Skyline and reading this forum almost every day no matter where I am in the world I can honestly say I am amazed at the eagerness some of you are displaying to start an argument over someone's post which you clearly have not read. Oh, and since you didn't read the last one I'll explain again, "opinion", don't have to explain it, it's an opinion. Like my opinion of you right now, not much. I hope you do buy a new GTR and it loses it's value going off the showroom floor faster than a virgin in a whore house.

Gary,

Careful...your true colours are showing.

I will leave it at that...you obviously have not read your own posts, you claimed the R35 was "big fat waddling pig that is competitive only because it is technologically better". Sorry if I misread that and that you actually meant that you were curious what it could do if it shed weight.

If the GTR does lose money as fast as you say...so be it...maybe then you could afford to get in one rather than bitching about it.

[skyline_man]

FINALLY, someone with some maturity. Thank you. As a discussion this topic, like others on this forum has become quickly heated over a simple statement on weight. You don't have to be an owner to know that something is heavy. Just use your eyes and read the facts. What's next, a supercar that weighs 2 tonnes ? Oh yes, I forgot, the Bugatti Veyron.

Weight reduction costs money mate. Lots of money. It aint as easy as just stripping the interior because that only gets you so far. To make a car with the chassis rigidity of the GTR but weighting 200kgs less requires exotic materials that aint cheap and a lot of engineering. For example changing the roof of the GTR to carbon fiber seems like a fairly straightforward process to many, but in fact it is a complicated process. You can't just simply slap on a cf roof. If you do, you also reduce the structural rigidity of the car as well. This was explained by Mizuno in one of his interviews. If the GTR was to weigh 200kg less, Nissan would have to be asking 911 turbo money for it to be profitable.

As a Nissan fan I have to say it is just too heavy and just too expensive and too complicated. I know I haven't driven one, I don't have to.

First you bitch about the car being too heavy, (but it's weight doesn't hamper its performance) and then you bitch about it being too expensive (even though it is regarded by many who have driven it to be the performance bargain of the decade). So what do you want, a 1400kg full dry carbon fibre body GTR for under $100K? Are you in a dream world or something? I think (and this is just my opinion) that YOU are the one who should show more maturity with your "opinions"

Edited May 7, 2009 by skyline_man

[justingtsr]

How good would one be as a potato field plough you reckon?

They might go under wire fences better than a r32. I like the exit from the padock. Good job shame you didn't get the win!