R32 Gtr Traction Issues

[GT-R32]

I did a search and couldn't see anything on this.

My car is an R32 running HKS 2530 at 1.3 bar. I have a fairly choked exhaust with the stock dumps and front pipe. Power is basically unknown, it is pretty quick. I have a dyno of ~260awkw on the supposedly low reading Ultimate Tunes dyno prior to replacing my cat. Is it true that this dyno reads low and by how much approximately? I'd appreciate comments on this...

My car will come onto boost quite hard in 2nd and smoke the tyres up to high 7k rpm. Dramatic, but not the fastest way of forward movement. I drive like a Granny 98% of the time but I like to give it a little hit now and then and wouldn't expect this in 2nd, nor is it especially legal and very hard to avoid. We all know the amount of coppers around Canberra!!!

I replaced the shit Nexens it had on it, with them the car would literally smoke all 4 at 100km/h. I figured it had to be the poor and balding tyres. I fitted 255/40/17 Toyo T1Rs to the TE37s all around which I've put several hundred kms on. It's slightly better but in second gear it's still hopeless, straight line is spins the wheels after 4500rpm.

Suspension is Bilstein shocks and unknown springs all around, with some changes to arms etc. as it came from Japan. The spring rates are of course stiff, but not overly so. The ride is quite compliant (certainly compared to a mate's WRX anyway). Camber is negative, but again nothing silly.

My question is, WTF? How can a 4WD car with the same tyres struggle for grip when a mate's S8 RX7 (he runs a ported block + T04Z at 1.1 bar around 280rwkw) with the exact same tyres (basically the reason I bought them) have full grip?

Is there a certain set up that can cause this behaviour? It's got me beat. Can any one here suggest a suspension place that can to look at this set up to aid traction?

[GTRKat]

For any suspension work go see Chris at Inline in Qbn.

[a20089]

My question is, WTF? How can a 4WD car with the same tyres struggle for grip when a mate's S8 RX7 (he runs a ported block + T04Z at 1.1 bar around 280rwkw) with the exact same tyres (basically the reason I bought them) have full grip?

Is there a certain set up that can cause this behaviour? It's got me beat. Can any one here suggest a suspension place that can to look at this set up to aid traction?

My GTR makes about the same power with similar turbo's and boost on the same dyno. I beleive the dyno is not "low" reading, just more truthful then some others.

I currently have some really crappy tyres on the 17's and I do not have any problems with wheel spin except if launching on boost. You obviously have some major set up problems or 4wd problems. You have not mentioned if your front wheels are receiving maxium torque. What does the dial say when you start wheel spinning?

For best drag style launching a softer rear end is the best for weight transfer, but at those power levels you should not need it. The tyres you have should be fine, but if you need better tyres on a budget try Federal 595RS-R's. Most swear by them here.

I hope that helps a bit.

[hr32gts]

HICAS playing up ?

[GTRKat]

HICAS playing up ?

You mean attessa? That was a thought I had too. Mine stopped working once and I unintentionally fish tailed all the way down Gungahlin drive. A little funny but not my preferred driving style.

[GT-R32]

For any suspension work go see Chris at Inline in Qbn.

Thanks I'll remember that. When I went past looking for tyres he had some nice cars there, a whole range including a R34 GTR.

My GTR makes about the same power with similar turbo's and boost on the same dyno. I beleive the dyno is not "low" reading, just more truthful then some others.

I currently have some really crappy tyres on the 17's and I do not have any problems with wheel spin except if launching on boost. You obviously have some major set up problems or 4wd problems. You have not mentioned if your front wheels are receiving maxium torque. What does the dial say when you start wheel spinning?

For best drag style launching a softer rear end is the best for weight transfer, but at those power levels you should not need it. The tyres you have should be fine, but if you need better tyres on a budget try Federal 595RS-R's. Most swear by them here.

I hope that helps a bit.

You're probably right about the dyno. Some insane numbers relative to ours are in the RB26 turbo upgrade dyno thread, LOL.

It seems it's 4WD issues. I'll check the transfer case tomorrow.

You mean attessa? That was a thought I had too. Mine stopped working once and I unintentionally fish tailed all the way down Gungahlin drive. A little funny but not my preferred driving style.

That fishtail is what I experience in 2nd and 3rd gear coming on boost. Exciting, fun, etc but not fast, LOL.

[rmsport]

Is there a certain set up that can cause this behaviour? It's got me beat. Can any one here suggest a suspension place that can to look at this set up to aid traction?

It is called "The right foot"

The best traction control around !

[rmsport]

Don't mean to be facetious, but the younger generation seem to think that traction and "the right foot" are completely divorced from one another.

I would suggest a high performance driving course would go a long way to curing the traction problem.

[GTRKat]

Don't mean to be facetious, but the younger generation seem to think that traction and "the right foot" are completely divorced from one another.

I would suggest a high performance driving course would go a long way to curing the traction problem.

While I don't think you are entirely wrong about a driving course, I think you're jumping the gun here. I have had my AWD fail (problem fixed now) and it's damn surprising/scary when it does.

His symptoms fit what happened in my case and are pretty unusual for a GTR.

And tell me, do you know this guy or how old he is?

[GT-R32]

Thanks Kat. LOL, not that I should have to justify my position on the internet FFS, but this is near my 30th car and I've owned from 550hp 1080kg RWDs to modified 440+ci V8s. I don't think the right foot is an issue in this case. A 4WD car with tyres like this should not do this, I shouldn't have to feather the throttle in this car in 2nd gear in a straight line, as pointed out by a20089. FYI Erol, I've been on the track in plenty of other cars and done an advanced course 7/8 years ago with Rick Bates when I was younger.

Please try not to apply prejudice without any knowledge of the car or driver. I guess Erol's comments are a case in point that Skyline is somewhat synonymous with 'young hoon'. A shame for the genuine enthusiasts that make up the vast majority of owners. The Today Tonight attitude is basically politically correct now days.

Well it's definitely not the transfer case, it's working perfectly. I'll bleed the ATTESA and get a place to look at my suspension set up and go from there. Thanks everyone.

[Scooby]

definitely on the right track with bleeding the attessa but make sure you get hold of an R32 manual if you don't know how to use the pump to presure bleed the system, gravity bleed doesn't work. Trojan can do it for you if you need them to.

i've got some Trust front pipes that I want to shift if you're interested in uncorking it.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Scooby

[rmsport]

Please try not to apply prejudice without any knowledge of the car or driver. I guess Erol's comments are a case in point that Skyline is somewhat synonymous with 'young hoon'. A shame for the genuine enthusiasts that make up the vast majority of owners. The Today Tonight attitude is basically politically correct now days.

I certainly don't relate Skyline to 'young hoon'

The statement below I do assosciate with 'hoon', regardless of age, stated experience, 4WD/2WD, Kw's etc.

That fishtail is what I experience in 2nd and 3rd gear coming on boost. Exciting, fun, etc but not fast, LOL.

[GT-R32]

Yeah I am a Today Tonight 'hoon', clearly shown with a light hearted explanation of what the car does moving up the revs. Sorry I don't fit in with your ideology. Criticise away.

Perhaps post something positive as a way to sell yourself and the Richardson Motorsport business? While I would assume you have a solid and loyal customer base, your 7 or 8 cynical and critical posts on here are doing you no favours. Or maybe it's just that you like to show people how you see the world?

[a20089]

Yeah I am a Today Tonight 'hoon', clearly shown with a light hearted explanation of what the car does moving up the revs. Sorry I don't fit in with your ideology. Criticise away.

There's several members here that seem to have a knack for door knocking god bothering, and can't decern a jovial post.

Good luck with the prob and let us know the outcome.

[Helious]

Is it still 'the right foot' if you are driving a left hand drive car? So tell me, if I was being paid 200K a year to drive a car around a track really fast...am I a hoon? So if someone says, I only live once so why not have fun rather then restrict the quality of my life with rules some old guy decided for me...am I a hoon? As far as im conserned, the speeds at which we go are slow. The only reason we have to go those speeds is because we are restricted to having to rely on one of the more weaker forces in this world, friction..and gravity will always find a way to trump friction.

Talking of forces, could it be an option that not enough weight of the car is pushing on the rear wheels? If you have very soft suspension, it might be that the rear end is too light so rather then moving the car forwards it jumps it up slightly causing it wheel spin...I dunno only thinking out loud ><

[a20089]

Talking of forces, could it be an option that not enough weight of the car is pushing on the rear wheels? If you have very soft suspension, it might be that the rear end is too light so rather then moving the car forwards it jumps it up slightly causing it wheel spin...I dunno only thinking out loud ><

Soft suspension would cause a bigger weight transfer to the rear wheels (ie weigth) due to the forward momentum, like a motorbike. GTR's are a bit light in the rear end and with solid suspension they to can spin a very little bit.

But as I said not much of a problem at these power levels and good tyres.

[GT-R32]

Is it still 'the right foot' if you are driving a left hand drive car? So tell me, if I was being paid 200K a year to drive a car around a track really fast...am I a hoon? So if someone says, I only live once so why not have fun rather then restrict the quality of my life with rules some old guy decided for me...am I a hoon? As far as im conserned, the speeds at which we go are slow. The only reason we have to go those speeds is because we are restricted to having to rely on one of the more weaker forces in this world, friction..and gravity will always find a way to trump friction.

Talking of forces, could it be an option that not enough weight of the car is pushing on the rear wheels? If you have very soft suspension, it might be that the rear end is too light so rather then moving the car forwards it jumps it up slightly causing it wheel spin...I dunno only thinking out loud ><

Sorry it is still left foot if you're driving a LHD car, as the peddles remain the same. But I appreciate the comment. And concur with your further comments.

The suspension is hard, but as a20089 says not hard enough at these power levels particularly with these tyres to cause issues.

[rmsport]

Soft suspension would cause a bigger weight transfer to the rear wheels (ie weigth) due to the forward momentum, like a motorbike. GTR's are a bit light in the rear end and with solid suspension they to can spin a very little bit.

Having been accused of being cynical, god bothering, and Today Tonight correctness, I am somewhat reluctant to dispell this 'urban myth'.

Weight transfer has nothing to do with soft or hard suspension springs or shocks.

Weight transfer in the acceleration/braking direction is governed by Centre of gravity height/wheelbase/G's acceleration.

Also, anti-squat geometry is designed to lift the car, causing an 'equal and opposite' reaction at the tyre, (ie more traction)

Physics has not changed since the earth was created.

Erol

[GT-R32]

Great post Erol, I'm sure we all learnt something from that.

[Sir Lord Van Von Vader'ham]

Having been accused of being cynical, god bothering, and Today Tonight correctness, I am somewhat reluctant to dispell this 'urban myth'.

Weight transfer has nothing to do with soft or hard suspension springs or shocks.

Weight transfer in the acceleration/braking direction is governed by Centre of gravity height/wheelbase/G's acceleration.

Also, anti-squat geometry is designed to lift the car, causing an 'equal and opposite' reaction at the tyre, (ie more traction)

Physics has not changed since the earth was created.

Erol

your suspension settings are all about weight transfer in the sense that your allowing the weight to move around as is need to help provide more or less grip (less!!! ) as your driving style and environment demands.

knee bones connected the turbo so to say

in the same token it will most likely be a combination of things that is causing the issue.

maybe age of tyre with slightly too much camber and stiffness and the tyres are cold and the alteza is playing up..... etc, etc

just guess's as i haven't seen it happen

but who cares anyway? your GTR does skids!!!!