Best Bang For My Buck Speakers?

[benro2]

Hey guys,

In my R33 GTS-T I've got either stock speakers or some half decent aftermarket ones as they have decent bass, but in the front, treble is very bad as the speakers are placed near your leg, so I'd like to get some splits for the front.

In the rear one of the cone surrounds has broken (I'm guessing) because it has a horrible distorted sound at any volume.

I only want to spend a max. of ~$500 installed. I've been quoted $99 for front installation labour and $88 for rear, but not sure if that includes rewiring.

My amp is an old Eclipse double-DIN unit but from what I've heard, they're not too bad in terms of their amp quality/power. Obviously no match for a separate amp but at this point I'm after pretty much *the* cheapest option (within reason!) so I'm not considering those ATM.

So I've got 2 choices:

Front: Jaycar 6.5" splits (Cat. No. CS2338) - $249 OR DLS Performance K6 - $179

Rear: Jaycar 6.5" coax 2-ways (Cat. No. CS2374) - $119 OR DLS Performance 226 6.5" 2-ways - $139

I listen to mostly metal and rock at medium volumes. I'd like a decent amount of bass but doesn't have to be thumping like out of a sub. Just enough to overcome road noise and mix in nicely with the music. Should also be able to provide instant punch for those big double-kicks Trebles are obviously also important and I want a nice smooth response - I don't want any "stand-out" frequency ranges or any harshness. My audio guy assures me that the DLS's will do the job but I just can't help thinking that because they're literally the bottom of their range, they can't possibly be better than top of the range Jaycars with no brand-name price addon???

Now for my questions:

1. Which would sound better? Has anyone ever heard those Jaycar splits? I like those because they're using ribbon tweeters (sounds fancy too ) meaning most likely smoother trebles and better treble response, plus I've heard that they will supposedly outperform speakers at 3x the price. They're also top of the range whereas the DLS are the bottom.

2. Can I flush-mount the Jaycar's tweeters? The car audio guy told me he can flush-mount the DLS' - I'm a n00b when it comes to any car audio installations so I can't tell just by looking at the pics...

3. Should I both rewiring and if so, what's a reasonable price for installation for front/rear? What gauge wiring should I use? Anything else I should know?

That's about it for now. Thanks in advance for the help!

[RxGTR]

Do you care about the looks? coz if you don't as well go straight to the Jaycar

[_Ryan_]

Check out Hertz....similar money, better product.

[benro2]

Do you care about the looks? coz if you don't as well go straight to the Jaycar

Nah looks aren't a problem but I thought the Jaycars looked pretty nice!

Check out Hertz....similar money, better product.

Where would I get these? The Lifestyle store has them in stock but I don't know what prices are good! Do you know if anywhere has them available to listen to?

[Chris Rogers]

try a CAM dealer for hertz .

www.cam.com.au

see DLS for teh sound of hertz.

[RxGTR]

alright well if looks don't matter then you might as well go for jaycar. Really? i don't like em XD i like ones that look unique like the DNA or Alpha sonik ones

[benro2]

try a CAM dealer for hertz .

www.cam.com.au

see DLS for teh sound of hertz.

That website doesn't work - goes to some generic parked website. What's CAM stand for? Maybe I can google it instead.

Also what did you mean by "see DLS for teh sound of hertz."? - you mean they sound very similar?

alright well if looks don't matter then you might as well go for jaycar. Really? i don't like em XD i like ones that look unique like the DNA or Alpha sonik ones

I'm not really that much into audio as you can probably tell This is a real bottom of the line system - more out of necessity than *wanting* to do it, but figured that since I'm replacing the rears (one is stuffed), may as well redo the fronts and go marginally better. The Jaycars' cones are yellow - that's cool these days, isn't it?

[RxGTR]

That website doesn't work - goes to some generic parked website. What's CAM stand for? Maybe I can google it instead.

Also what did you mean by "see DLS for teh sound of hertz."? - you mean they sound very similar?

I'm not really that much into audio as you can probably tell This is a real bottom of the line system - more out of necessity than *wanting* to do it, but figured that since I'm replacing the rears (one is stuffed), may as well redo the fronts and go marginally better. The Jaycars' cones are yellow - that's cool these days, isn't it?

haha yeh i figured. Lol i don't like yellow thats why. Its good coz its made from Carbon fibre and all but i like other ones XD

[Chris Rogers]

my bad they changed the site

http://www.caraudiomasters.com.au/

try that and find a dealer in your area.

there are better than jaycar.. to be honest find a rainbow dealer and listen to them as well

www.mobilefidelity.com.au for a list of dealers.

[Joe Bellissimo]

I would honestly recommend forgetting about the rear speakers and spending it all on the fronts.

Spend $100 on the install in the front and have $400 left over for the front speakers. Rock and metal tear speakers to shreds. You wont get perfect sound from anything under $1000 when it comes to rock and metal. I'm using a $560 pair of Crecendo Opus 5s and I still want more. You can never get enough clarity when listening to that type of music, I can't stress it enough, buy the most expensive set you can afford.

[R32_fiend]

Agree with Joe, put your whole budget into fronts, get a nice set of DLS splits

[benro2]

I would honestly recommend forgetting about the rear speakers and spending it all on the fronts.

Spend $100 on the install in the front and have $400 left over for the front speakers. Rock and metal tear speakers to shreds. You wont get perfect sound from anything under $1000 when it comes to rock and metal. I'm using a $560 pair of Crecendo Opus 5s and I still want more. You can never get enough clarity when listening to that type of music, I can't stress it enough, buy the most expensive set you can afford.

I can't forget about the rears - one of them is stuffed so I *have* to replace those, but was just going for cheapies (comparitively speaking).

As for the fronts, I'm a bit wary of spending too much, not only because the Skylines have a lot of roadnoise, but because I'm just running them off my Eclipse head deck. I could go and get a 4 channel amp and all that but I really don't want to spend the money.

The other thing is, I've been with a friend to check out all sorts of speakers. We tried some >$700 Focals and to be honest, I wasn't impressed by those (or anything for that matter). I'm pretty fussy when it comes to sound so I'm pretty sure I'll need a >$1000 set for the fronts plus a decent amp and I'm never going to be able to bring myself to spend that, so I may as well just get something like the Jaycars/DLS/anything else people suggest for the ~$200 price range and try and be happy with it

The reason why I'm looking at DLS is because I trust the installer (I've used him for other things and he really knows his stuff) - and he showed me his DLS setup in his own car. He was using mid-priced speakers in his (~$600) and at the time wasn't using a midbass driver, and I have to say I was pretty impressed, even by the amount of bass and the punch they could produce. That's why it's hard for me to judge speakers in store - because even $1000 sets sound bad compared to his $600 set installed.

I don't listen at very high volumes - just enough to overome roadnoise, and to be able to hear the bass. So my wishes are:

1. To overcome roadnoise/windnoise

2. To have enough treble to take out the "muddiness" of the current setup (currently fullrange, legs block fullrange speakers)

3. To have enough bass to overcome exhaust/roadnoise (stock exhaust)

4. To have enough "punch" so that double kicks don't become muddied. Every sub system I've heard, and these include multi-thousand dollar setups has screwed up double-kicks big time!

The Eclipse unit seems pretty powerful and never distorts at the levels I play at. I figure if I buy a set of fairly efficient splits (say > 90dB/W/m) it should handle the volumes I require fairly easily.

[Joe Bellissimo]

Thought about taking out the rear speakers completely?

Keep in mind that most speakers sound much better in a car than in a soundboard. I heard the focals your talking about in a board and disliked them. I heard them in a yaris and was quite impressed.

If you want "bass" you need a subwoofer. I get great bass out of my SPL Dynamics HF6.1s in the rear but that's because I'm using a psycho acoustic bass processor on it.

If you want "midbass" you need a powerful driver with plenty of power fed into it. Speakers simply cant produce the low frequencies because of the lack of surface area and lack of exertion.

http://www.spldynamics.fi/hf-comp/hf-61-e.htm

That link goes to the SPL Dynamics HF6.1 midbass drivers. They cost $180 and will take 100RMS. One of the best value midbass drivers around. Keep in mind adding the tweeter and crossover would bring the price closer to $280 but if you want "punch" you can't go past them.

You will need to deaden your doors to reduce road noise and to assist the "punch".

To get things "perfect" you will need to spend a fair bit. I have achieved, in my car, what you are talking about. The thing is I spent much more than you did and I probably have access to far more resources since I'm in the industry.

[R32_fiend]

Best setup I've had was just fronts and a sub running off a pretty average 4 channel amp. With well setup fronts you don't even notice the lack of rear. Plus hearing sound coming loud from the rear isn't very natural imo

[funkymonkey]

SPL Dynamics HF6.1 even fit in the door of a skyline? or is this for rear?

[Carbon 34]

dont buy speakers based upon price alone, 1000 dollar speakers in a unbaffled door without sound deadener will sound lousy. skyline doors rattle a lot due to the no window frame and long doors in coupes.

really the install must be a good one or its a waste of money. spend about 200-300 will get you some good speakers for a future upgrade to amp, etc.

plan your end goal before blowing money on cheapos that will need replacing later

dont bother running new wires unless your going to run a amp later on, wont make a bit of difference really on deck power.

and if your like SA, you will get defected for cutting the rear deck for speakers, be forewarned ?

deck power will never keep up with hard rock, needs a real amp for speaker control at loud volumes

if you store stuff in the door pockets it rattles bad and will make speakers sound bad, take it out ...lol

[Joe Bellissimo]

SPL Dynamics HF6.1 even fit in the door of a skyline? or is this for rear?

I'm throwing suggestions out there. I'm not particularly familiar with the factory locations in the R33.

The mounting depth is on the website, could someone let me know if that would fit or not? If it doesn't I'll make a different suggestion.

[benro2]

Thought about taking out the rear speakers completely?

Keep in mind that most speakers sound much better in a car than in a soundboard. I heard the focals your talking about in a board and disliked them. I heard them in a yaris and was quite impressed.

If you want "bass" you need a subwoofer. I get great bass out of my SPL Dynamics HF6.1s in the rear but that's because I'm using a psycho acoustic bass processor on it.

If you want "midbass" you need a powerful driver with plenty of power fed into it. Speakers simply cant produce the low frequencies because of the lack of surface area and lack of exertion.

http://www.spldynamics.fi/hf-comp/hf-61-e.htm

That link goes to the SPL Dynamics HF6.1 midbass drivers. They cost $180 and will take 100RMS. One of the best value midbass drivers around. Keep in mind adding the tweeter and crossover would bring the price closer to $280 but if you want "punch" you can't go past them.

You will need to deaden your doors to reduce road noise and to assist the "punch".

To get things "perfect" you will need to spend a fair bit. I have achieved, in my car, what you are talking about. The thing is I spent much more than you did and I probably have access to far more resources since I'm in the industry.

Thanks for the detailed reply Just a few related questions:

1. When you say "bass" do you mean bass suited to say hip-hop? And "midbass" is more for rock? If that's the case then midbass is all I'm after.

2. With that SPL Dynamics HF6.1 midbass driver, is that $180 each or for a pair? $280 for a pair with crossovers and tweeter is still acceptable - I was prepared to spend $250 on those Jaycar Response drivers. Which also leads me to me next question...

3. I don't have a problem leaving the rear speakers as they are (ie: leave them there but disconnect them), except I have noticed that when I bring the fader up to the front, I sort of seem to notice a loss of "fill" and the sound is less... 3D? I can't describe it in words but I'm sure you know what I mean. I also think I could get used to running just fronts though, if it meant more bass, better trebles, etc. So - if I just disconnect the rears, is it possible to bridge my head deck to just run those HF6.1's and the tweeters, and if so, will that provide the sort of power I need to get that "punch"? Bear in mind that again, I don't play it at very high volumes, just enough to get over road/wind noise and to not give me a headache

4. Is there any reason why those HF6.1's, being 6.5", would provide any more bass than a regular 6.5" split system?

5. I've heard that applying Dynamat and filler to the doors is a bit of a PITA plus it limits access to things if stuff breaks, like electric windows, etc., so I'm not sure I want to do that (or spend the money/time either ) - but if I do get something like the HF6.1's, at medium volume levels, will the insides of the door start rattling and annoying me? I don't carry anything in the door pockets other than serviettes

really the install must be a good one or its a waste of money. spend about 200-300 will get you some good speakers for a future upgrade to amp, etc.

plan your end goal before blowing money on cheapos that will need replacing later

dont bother running new wires unless your going to run a amp later on, wont make a bit of difference really on deck power.

and if your like SA, you will get defected for cutting the rear deck for speakers, be forewarned ?

deck power will never keep up with hard rock, needs a real amp for speaker control at loud volumes

if you store stuff in the door pockets it rattles bad and will make speakers sound bad, take it out ...lol

Some more related questions

1. So with the install, you're saying to spend $200-300 or you mean on speakers alone? I've been quoted $99 for this install but I don't know if that includes rewiring. What's an acceptable price for a good install with and without rewiring?

2. If I do what Joe suggested above and I disconnect the rears (and possibly bridge the head unit or get a separate amp for the midbass drivers), will that require rewiring? I guess what I'm asking is: what's the max. power the stock wiring can handle and is there any sound quality difference between that and half decent stuff?

3. End goal is basically the best sound quality I can get for $500 installed. Excessive power really isn't that important (but it can't be whimpy of course!). If that means that I can just disconnect the rears but have sufficient "fill" and bass/midbass/punch for metal then that's fine - I don't mind spending more on speakers in total - as long as everything installed is <$500. Even if I have to get a 2-ch amp as well, but mounting and installation costs will add up quickly I think, as a friend told me that amps don't fit under the front seats, so have to go underneath the parcel shelf, where the battery is I really don't want to have to do anything myself, as I'm inexperienced and really can't be bothered

Thanks for the help so far people, learning a lot as I go!

[Joe Bellissimo]

1. Bass is in all music. Hip-hop does have a lot of lower bass tones in it but so does rock music. The problem with leaving out the bass is that in certain songs you will have a "void" in the music where it will sound very empty. Rock music will lose a lot of its warmth since the lowest bass notes will be missing.

Midbass is the higher bass tones, the sort of bass that creates your upper drum beats. It is ESPECIALLY important in rock music since the drums will have no kick if there is no midbass. If you have enough midbass it makes your lack of lower bass very hard to notice. It's all up to your taste and how picky you want to be about your sound.

2. Those prices are correct. Did you have a look at the website? Its built really tough.

3. You will lose rear fill if you take the rears out. I know a couple of people who use really cheap or factory speakers in the rear just to fill the cabin of the car with a bit more sound. I would probably recmond getting rear speakers as an afterthought when you have a bit more money to spend and just fitting them in there yourself.

Most head units wont allow you to bridge the channels and it will probably fry the decks amplifier.

Do keep in mind that I'm running 100rms through mine compared to the average 15rms a deck would output. I can't really say how much output it would have running from a head unit.

4. It's the power handling that makes them shine. The woofers ALONE can take 100RMS. Add the tweeter and crossover and they can take 150RMS+.

There are plenty of other 6.5" drivers which can do more, but none that I'm aware of in that price range.

5. My HF6.1s in the parcel tray of my car create rattles. Now that would be normal except my tray is deadened!

You will have to make a few compromises. To get optimal results this is what I would do:

1. Install the HF6.1 and tweeters (You can't get a good punch without good drivers)

2. Connect them to a 150rms x2 amplifier (You can't run good drivers to their potential without good power)

3. Sound deaden your doors thouroughly (You can't get the most out of your power if it leaks out the door)

4. Add a MaxxBass103 (You can't get good bass out of normal speakers without some sort of signal processing)

I'm describing the perfect scenario. You will more than likely be happy with less than perfect but as long as you know your options you can make an informed decision.

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but are you using factory speakers at the moment?

(Sorry bout massive post )

[benro2]

No probs about the long post Joe, much appreciated - keep them coming!

Midbass is the higher bass tones, the sort of bass that creates your upper drum beats. It is ESPECIALLY important in rock music since the drums will have no kick if there is no midbass. If you have enough midbass it makes your lack of lower bass very hard to notice. It's all up to your taste and how picky you want to be about your sound.

OK, so basically I only need to worry about midbass unless I'm really picky?

2. Those prices are correct. Did you have a look at the website? Its built really tough.

Yes, I checked it out, looks like a nice driver but a point you raised before is the mounting depth. However, have a look at this post here (post #34). Under the "Time" section you can see that he's used nearly 2.8" (71mm) deep speakers (if I'm reading his post correctly?) - and those HF6.1's are "only" 67mm. Should I be OK? What happens if I buy them and then discover they're too deep? Can I do anything or is it time to send them back?

Also, regarding the prices, I still don't quite get you - is that $180 for a pair?

Regarding tweeters, what about these Jaycars? They're ribbon tweeters, but don't quote a power output. $69 seems reasonable to me. The freq response is 3kHz-40kHz and the HF6.1's is quoted as up to 5kHz. So does that mean I'm OK there, and are car crossovers adjustable in any way? If not, how do I match up the midbass/tweeter/crossover?

3. You will lose rear fill if you take the rears out. I know a couple of people who use really cheap or factory speakers in the rear just to fill the cabin of the car with a bit more sound. I would probably recmond getting rear speakers as an afterthought when you have a bit more money to spend and just fitting them in there yourself.

OK, what about this idea?

1. Buy a 2 x 150W RMS amp (please suggest a good, cheap one) to run the HF6.1's + tweeters, plus install new wiring

2. Throw out rear speakers, relocate stock fronts to rear (look like 5-6"), run them off 2 channels of the head unit (not bridged)

You will have to make a few compromises. To get optimal results this is what I would do:

1. Install the HF6.1 and tweeters (You can't get a good punch without good drivers)

2. Connect them to a 150rms x2 amplifier (You can't run good drivers to their potential without good power)

3. Sound deaden your doors thouroughly (You can't get the most out of your power if it leaks out the door)

4. Add a MaxxBass103 (You can't get good bass out of normal speakers without some sort of signal processing)

Well I think I'll only have the money ATM to do the first two. I've looked into the MaxxBas103 and it looks interesting, but can I get a similar effect with EQ?

Also regarding sound deadening, what would I use here exactly? Is it easy to remove if something like the electric windows break?

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but are you using factory speakers at the moment?

No, no one has asked yet - and I'm not quite sure I've never seen the factory speakers before and I didn't replace the head unit so for all I know, the previous owner in Japan may have replaced the speakers too. They certainly seem to produce a decent amount of bass but they're just in a very bad location and without tweeters, getting treble out of them, even without someone in the passenger seat, is very hard. I would probably describe them as close to stock - it's probably just the extra power of the head unit making them sound better than a factory system.

Thanks again for all the help