E10 In Diesel X-trail

[HtwCHACtkh]

My Mum accidentally put E10 (Yes E10!!) instead of a Diesel in our Nissan X-Trail TL.. running on a severe lack of sleep I don't hold anything against her.

The car moved about 20m before the engine died, tried to crank again and it just would not turn over. The car has been towed back home now.

I am asking all the mechanical elders for advice now.

Would it be as simple as draining the E10 and putting some Diesel in it? Think any damage has been done?

[Iron Chef]

In two words: Yes. Lots. (presuming it's a common rail diesel and she filled the tank)

At best, she'll need to replace her entire fuel system (injectors included), at worst, the entire engine will need a rebuild.

It only takes a few seconds to stuff them completely on unleaded. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'd be making a phone call to the insurance company if I were her.

Edit: Having Googled a bit, if she's really really lucky and didn't put much in before she started it (ie there was less than 10% petrol in the tank), she may only be up for a fuel pump.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Iron Chef

[Iron Chef]

Found this on a website somewhere:

Petrol in a diesel engine

Breakdown organisations put the figure of petrol misfuelling at around 150,000 cars a year, with repair bills totalling hundreds of millions of pounds.

Petrol will strip your diesel engine of the lubricant used to keep it ticking over and cause metal components to grate against each other and disintegrate.

This runs the risk of damaging the fuel pump and fuel-injection systems, or wrecking an engine completely if used for a significant amount of time.

To make matters worse pre-ignition systems start fuel pumps in new diesel models when car doors are unlocked. This cuts out the time it takes for new diesel engines to warm up, but means that diesel engines can be ruined by petrol by simply unlocking doors.

The fuel pump and injection systems and filters will likely need to be replaced on new models, while an entire engine could be wrecked beyond repair if it has been run for long enough. Regardless of the extent of the damage, the repair bill could potentially run into thousands of pounds.

Avoiding turning the engine over or stopping as soon as possible is vital to prevent more damage to the engine in these circumstances. A fuel-tank drain could be sufficient in such cases to prevent damage.

[Johnny]

thats sucks mate, it seems to happen alot these days. Hope not much damage has been done, goodluck; keep us posted on the outcome.

[Angus Smart]

Start with the fuel pump, and work your way from there. usually its the diesel pump that will die first.

question does your insurance cover this?

[hrd-hr30]

diesels fire their fuel purely by compressing it. petrol will not combust that way so it reamins liquid inthe combustion chamber. end result in the worst case is the same as if it ingested water in a creek crossing - hydro-lock and bent rod/s. the fact it wouldn't turn over after it stopped, suggests this is what happened...

[raps86]

i would at least drain the fuel out and replace the fuel filter and pull the glow plugs out and give the motor a few hits with the starter to see if anything comes out. Hopefully there wasnt any damaged done to the motor how much fuel was put in the tank

[GTR-N1]

...and after all of the ^^^ above have cleared things up; there's STILL YOUR MUM'S SEVERE LACK OF SLEEP.

So as to NOT PHUK IT UP AGAIN,

Can I recommend that she takes...

1) Melatonin

2) l-Tryptophan amino acid

3) Rx for Xanax or Normison or

4) Brandy

...before bed

[Iron Chef]

I was gonna add sex to the list Terry, but talk of parents having sex is kinda gross...

[bloodzkull]

diesels fire their fuel purely by compressing it. petrol will not combust that way so it reamins liquid inthe combustion chamber. end result in the worst case is the same as if it ingested water in a creek crossing - hydro-lock and bent rod/s. the fact it wouldn't turn over after it stopped, suggests this is what happened...

actually no.

like iron chef said at best a new pump. which are heaps to replace. quite possibly more damage.

[pipster11]

had a friend working as an aprentice mech (few years back now)

and they had a heap of soccer mums coming in with their v10 diesel vw toureg thingos which they had put diesel in

they just dropped the tanks and refill with diesel (prob bleed the fuel lines too) im pretty sure that was all

worth giving it a go

[Birds]

diesels fire their fuel purely by compressing it. petrol will not combust that way so it reamins liquid inthe combustion chamber. end result in the worst case is the same as if it ingested water in a creek crossing - hydro-lock and bent rod/s. the fact it wouldn't turn over after it stopped, suggests this is what happened...

Not purely, most use glow plugs to ensure ignition at the end of the piston stroke. Petrol can and does combust that way...hence detonation in a petrol engine, which would occur in a diesel at around 3/5 the piston stroke, hence this diesel running E10 went for as long as there was still diesel in the rail. I suspect the engine stalled on this detonation, in which case you *shouldn't* be up for a new engine as it sounds like the engine wasn't running long enough to cause severe damage. Most likely just have to replace minor bits of the fuel system if they have been affected by it; filter, fuel pump etc.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

I was gonna add sex to the list Terry, but talk of parents having sex is kinda gross...

depends on who's doin teh sexin

[bombtrack]

depends on who's doin teh sexin

teh parents...

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i was thinkin more along teh lines of one of teh parents....

[BezerkR32]

my workshop was located behind a service station, we had this happen at least once a week, admitedly most people realised there mistake before driving off so it was a simlple fix, just drained tank and replaced filter.

First thing you have to work out is if the engine turns, if it doesnt, then forget the rest of the shit to test.

i doubt the engine would be damaged but it is possible.

Drain tank, replace fuel filter and pray if the engine cranks.

[slippery sliders]

my workshop was located behind a service station, we had this happen at least once a week, admitedly most people realised there mistake before driving off so it was a simlple fix, just drained tank and replaced filter.

First thing you have to work out is if the engine turns, if it doesnt, then forget the rest of the shit to test.

i doubt the engine would be damaged but it is possible.

Drain tank, replace fuel filter and pray if the engine cranks.

As above is spot on, drain the tank, replace filters and get the car running - you can get from autobarn and repco a diesel treatment that is to help with dodgy fuel.

We have this come into our service department atleast once a month.

[hrd-hr30]

any update?

he said it wouldn't crank over after it stopped. everyone suggesting its probably only fuel system seems to have missed that part.

if you are going to try and start the thing, I'd pull the glow plugs out, disconnect the fuel line to the pump and crank it over to clear whatever fuel is still left in there before attempting to start it on diesel again.

Not purely, most use glow plugs to ensure ignition at the end of the piston stroke. Petrol can and does combust that way...hence detonation in a petrol engine, which would occur in a diesel at around 3/5 the piston stroke, hence this diesel running E10 went for as long as there was still diesel in the rail. I suspect the engine stalled on this detonation, in which case you *shouldn't* be up for a new engine as it sounds like the engine wasn't running long enough to cause severe damage. Most likely just have to replace minor bits of the fuel system if they have been affected by it; filter, fuel pump etc.

just for the record:

glow plugs are used to help the diesel combust when the engine's cold. you can start a diesel engine without glow plugs but its not easy. and they're not needed at all once the engine is up to temperature.

pre-detonation in a petrol engine is normally started by a hot spot in the combustion chamber. you won't find those conditions in a diesel engine - their combustion temps are far lower. but it's of absolutely no relevance to whether straight unleaded will combust in a diesel engine, which is what we're talking about.

as for the engine not running long enough to cause sever damage... how could it have been run any longer? they ran it till it stopped and it wouldn't even turn over when they tried to restart it!

Edited May 20, 2009 by hrd-hr30

[HtwCHACtkh]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the really late reply, I haven't been in good shape the past couple months.. In and out of hospitals/doctors. =T (This was the reason for the lack of sleep)

Since some people were keen on the end results of this blunder, I feel obliged to inform the people!

The X-Trail came out just fine! Took it to Nissan they flushed the fuel system, drained the E10 and replaced the filters and put diesel in it and it worked again. Was in the workshop for no more than 2 days.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Alinys

[GTR-N1]

Glad to hear it!

Needless to say, she'll never make that mistake again (-even if she was colour-blind = mostly, a male affliction anyway 1:20 c.f. women 1:200).