Gearbox Options For Motorsport Skylines

[wrxkilla]

Seems we started taking over Daz's build thread with the gearbox talk in GTRs, I thought we could get a new thread that will help for searching in the future as I would really value any real world input you guys have on selecting some cogs.

For a Track / Circuit car what are the gearbox options out there and approximate cost?

Any specific experiences? Known issues, weak points, maintenance, ratios?

So besides the PPG, PAR, OS sets we have some sequential boxes. Hollinger, OS88?, Trust also do one???

Michael

[Risking]

I've used alot of them.

The quaife (trust) boxes are okay but have issues with the lay shaft and gear teeth. The dog engagements are pretty good they are firm and positive. Parts are getting harder to get so I wouldn't use one unless you have spares.

PAR box I have was average. I think I got a bad one though as others I had driven were much better. It was a syncro box but the engagement teeth on 2nd and 3rd kept stripping off the actual gear and hence loosing drive.

The PPG offering is really good as far as dog boxes that ive used go. Its fairly cluncky to get used to but once you learn to be rough enough with it they shift very well. Im yet to find any wekaness as such but i know of others who have found problems. Be it driving style or design im not sure.

Im currently fixing my sequential box after it broke 3rd from lack of maintainance. Its a good box with a gear indicator (will be on my AIM dash now though) The only problem I had when it was fitted was the whole pulling it out all the time for inspection and servicing. I let it go a bit and hence ran into problems. The cost to get a clutch and flywheel to suit was a real killer and the other reason ive let it sit for a while as they also needed to be replaced.

The up keep on any dox box or other is pretty massive when you consider how oftern the car gets driven. We used to pull mine out every 5-6 days of racing and inspect it just to be safe. Since buying a kinder suprise aftermarket box I have left it in the hole and not worried about it. Now after 10 days its really starting to get lazy and you can feel the gear changes being baulked. Its some form of straight cut thing but I have no idea what as yet. Been pretty good to me though considering everything else prior bar the PPG broke within 6 months.

[wrxkilla]

okay a bit of googling came up with a quafe box. Do they still manufacture Trust gear?

anyone seen this and know costs???

http://www.quaife.co.uk/Nissan-Skyline-GTR...it-straight-cut

EDIT: Thanks for the above post! Heaps of information.

[Risking]

Yep trust boxes are just a quaife set. However the billet optional sandwich plate is made buy trust.

I dont know of anyone who's ever bought new but second hand a good one is worth roughly 5-6K and they are getting harder to get parts for as some of them are no longer being produced. Lay shafts are one of them

you'd be better off with the extra cash and buying a PPG which you know you can get all the parts for come time to service/replace things

[unique1]

so whats the maintenance required on the ppg dog straight cut and at what intervals and costs?

[wrxkilla]

Yep trust boxes are just a quaife set. However the billet optional sandwich plate is made buy trust.

I dont know of anyone who's ever bought new but second hand a good one is worth roughly 5-6K and they are getting harder to get parts for as some of them are no longer being produced. Lay shafts are one of them

you'd be better off with the extra cash and buying a PPG which you know you can get all the parts for come time to service/replace things

hrm okay thanks.

But the cost of the ppg and maintenance, you might as well get OS-88 or a hollinger? If you are maintaining dogs it might as well be sequential? I'm sure I could find a second hand Hollinger for $15k and OS-88 a bit cheaper?

[Risking]

We used to pull the PPG out every 5-6 days. 7 days IF there was not enough time between events.

I have absolutly no idea what the recommended intervals are. Thats just the time frame I used as Id find minimal wear and what was worn had not cause any detrimental damage by that stage.

Its probably longer than what I used but I did it all myself and had the time so wasn't worried.

Thats the exact reason I ended up with a seq box. The up keep of the dox boxes was still expensive so I saved the cash and bought something better, I didn't look after it and paid the price in the long run. Its still sitting here on the floor of my living room. Chipped dog's and hairline cracks were the biggest concern I had with the PPG. The PAR boxes broke, I have a customer or two who has the same stroies about the PAR.

If you find a second hand hollinger for 15K then make sure you have it serviced and be prepared to spend another 4-5K getting it up to standard.

Also dont forget the clutch arangement you'll need as well, another couple of grand there.

[Neil]

Is Needham an option???. I used one in my old Sports Sedan and it was great. Straight cut and smooth as for what it was. I liked the shift pattern to,,,1st was where 5th is in a line box (gated) and 2nd was where 1st is and so on.

Neil.

[Risking]

I do like those shift patterns neil.

They take a bit of getting used to if you drive a manual tow car though!!

A mate of mine has a gemini sport sedan with one but its far from smooth to shift with. Last time I drove it the box felt like it was going to fall out unless you got a massive run up before wacking the gear shifter!

Was probably just his box though as the entire car is the most under maintained POS.

Was yours a 4 or 5 speed Neil??

Edited May 28, 2009 by Risking

[unique1]

thanks Risking, so what exactly is done to the ppg when pulled down every 6 days? just basic clean up of the dogs? or buying parts to freshen it up? i know very little about the dog setups as i havent needed to touch mine as yet but would be keen to know whats involved.

I would go a holinger in a flash but 22k is alot of cash when ive spent soo much already on the motor it just gets out of control.

[Neil]

I do like those shift patterns neil.

They take a bit of getting used to if you drive a manual tow car though!!

A mate of mine has a gemini sport sedan with one but its far from smooth to shift with. Last time I drove it the box felt like it was going to fall out unless you got a massive run up before wacking the gear shifter!

Was probably just his box though as the entire car is the most under maintained POS.

Was yours a 4 or 5 speed Neil??

Of course you like that shift pattern,,,It the right way of doing it.

No they don't ya big girl,,,I drink beer while Mel tows the car home. and besides we use an auto.

Mine was great,,I loved it. After using and breaking 4 standard boxes,,,The needham was fantasic. Sure it's a slam into the next cog,,but thats what straight boxes are all about,,,the right revs at the right time makes it easy. I think I only ever used 2nd by mistake once. It was a 5 speed by the way.

Neil.

[Duncan]

these options need prices!

Michael the boxes you listed range from $2k to $25k.

I've decided to go PAR in the nugget because it get the cheapest of everything I'm happy to break 10 of them over 10 years before it catches up with the cost of the hollinger

[Rhys9]

these options need prices!

Michael the boxes you listed range from $2k to $25k.

I've decided to go PAR in the nugget because it get the cheapest of everything I'm happy to break 10 of them over 10 years before it catches up with the cost of the hollinger

I was thinking the same thing!

Rhys

[Risking]

you'd be much happier to buy my second hand PPG too Duncan

[Beer Baron]

hey brad, what type of sequential do you have that broke 3rd?

[bigmikespec]

What about "Hewland", I don't think have anything specifically for a 4WD but who is to say they can not design/manufacture something to suit?

http://www.hewland.com/

[Risking]

thanks Risking, so what exactly is done to the ppg when pulled down every 6 days? just basic clean up of the dogs? or buying parts to freshen it up? i know very little about the dog setups as i havent needed to touch mine as yet but would be keen to know whats involved.

I would go a holinger in a flash but 22k is alot of cash when ive spent soo much already on the motor it just gets out of control.

I used to just file the dogs square again. Used to find that the edges would get mushroomed over a little. If I kept ontop of it they would usually be pretty good the nixt time it was looked at. I only ever bought a few bearings for it, never had much in the way of replacements. If anything it was over maintained.

hey brad, what type of sequential do you have that broke 3rd?

Richard it was an OS88. Once it was stripped was found that the splines on the shaft that locate 3rd had sheared. Being a modular shaft design all the gears are obviously splined. I had bought it and not bothered to inspect anything. Didn't last long before failing. Unfortunatly I didn't research its history.