Bomberman's Rb26debt Build From Dmms Or Better Known As Dazmo

[bigmikespec]

The V88 came with an adaptor board so it plugs straight in for $150...$2250 + $150 + $100 for 7 bar map sensor = $2500

My quote prices were spot-on.

A bit of info if anyone requires it...the plugs for V88 and M800 are the same...if you buy an M800 and want to plug it straight in to the factory loom you can buy the Vi-PEC adaptor board to do the job.

Cheers

FYI that is what I paid too in little old Adelaide for exactly the same, V88, MAP sensor... etc. so I would say Paul you are spot on.

Interesting about the crank, HKSA???

Anyway, keep the updates coming!!!

Edited June 26, 2009 by bigmikespec

[9krpm]

wow you guys have good connection.

$100 for a motec 7 bar map sensor is an unbelievabbbly good price.

You can barely get 3 bar gm/ac delco map sensor for that price!

[JAGR33]

I convinced my tuner to buy the VIPEC.

He said that if it had weighed 50 grams less it would have been COMPLETELY useless...

Paul, you gotta put it to rest, you have to understand that the VIPEC isn't for everybody.

Don't take it personally....

[dazmo]

LOL

[Angus Smart]

LOL!!!

[AtomicBomberMan]

Seriously though, Dirtgarage has put together some pretty tough engines. I really do value his comments and input.

Thanks fall all the kind comments guys. To be honest guys i really dont mind everyone sharing your experiences here. It is a path, although i have not walked, i will need to at some stage. So this is ALL relevant to my build. Even though it is a debate within a thread, it really is good to hear first hand experiences with products you have actually used or is using. Computers and tuning is such a contraversial topic, i guess no different to "what is the proper way to run in a car" or "what is the best oil" This is why i like the motorsport section so much. We rarely get "i heard....." or "my mate told me...." , so any real information you have on the topic going at that moment during this thread please feel free to share!

Edited June 26, 2009 by AtomicBomberMan

[Swiper the Fox]

I convinced my tuner to buy the VIPEC.

He said that if it had weighed 50 grams less it would have been COMPLETELY useless...

Paul, you gotta put it to rest, you have to understand that the VIPEC isn't for everybody.

Don't take it personally....

Funny...he said nothing like that to me when i spoke to him last. Im just trying to help people out thats all...if some people dont want to listen and have a head in the sand approach its their issue...not mine.

Roy the only issue we have had with Vi-PEC is interference with the USB interface. Ive changed to serial cable on my car now and it runs flawlessly. The Ruzic engine monitor plugging straight into the Vi-PEC and the Ruzic software having its own dedicated Vi-PEC set-up section is also a bonus.

You can use whatever ecu you choose. Ill keep using what works for me best and i expect you will do the same. A few of the NSW roundy roundy boys were bagging the product only because i was using and recommending them...only to have their asses handed to them by Vi-PEC powered cars at Superlap. I thought that was very ironic.

[AtomicBomberMan]

I only just saw this thread - hence the delay in asking the question. Is "Daz's" car still running with this crank?

I ask because I'm almost 100% certain that I know this particular crank and if so some of the oil galleries in don't line up with the bearings. I would be worried about bearing failure under high revs and load.

Gav, i think i will try to clarify a few things. Im not sure if you will agree with me but here goes. That picture i have posted is not of Daz's crank. I do apologise for the misinformation. For the Record, pics of Daz's crank can be seen here. As you can see it is the same as the one you have.

Nor is the crank i have posted a 2.8L step 2 crank. After looking at it again, i originally thought it might have been an HKS RB24 crank for the RB20 engines. But after checking my photos i found out that the picture i have posted is actually an old school HKS 2.7L forged full counterweight crank. Like the crank i am using in my engine (the hks 2.6L step 3) it has been out of production for quite some time. I can remember seeing them a long time ago in the HKS catalogue and in japanese magazines. (conveniently i dont seem to be able to find any information on it now) This may be the reason why the person spoken to at HKS snubbed it as being one of their own. He or she may have only been familiar with products currently in production, and not with those that had been discontinued for such a long time. I cannot explain why the said crank has HKSA (HONG KONG STUDENT ASSOCIATION?) on it, nor can i explain what it means, but i am almost 100% certain that it IS an HKS product. This crank was on an auction many years back. It was a series of 3 photos. It was a new crank that was still in the box. I havent a clue as to why the oil galleries in the crank did not line up with the bearings. That really does seem strange. Sorry mate cant shed any light there.

So gav, what happened in the end?

ah you bet me to it, I was still typing when you posted

Atomic bomber man, the D-jetro with a competent tuner is extremely good. Don't dish that ecu buddy and BB has a good hint.

9krpm, I'm sure its a great computer, ive always been a fan of plug and play, it just saves so much stuffing around. But i think it would be safe to say that the features of the full blown standalone units are definitely more refined.

A bit of info if anyone requires it...the plugs for V88 and M800 are the same...if you buy an M800 and want to plug it straight in to the factory loom you can buy the Vi-PEC adaptor board to do the job.

Cheers

Thanks Dirtgarage. that is very useful information!

Edited June 26, 2009 by AtomicBomberMan

[Gav]

Gav, i think i will try to clarify a few things. Im not sure if you will agree with me but here goes. That picture i have posted is not of Daz's crank. I do apologise for the misinformation. For the Record, pics of Daz's crank can be seen here. As you can see it is the same as the one you have.

Nor is the crank i have posted a 2.8L step 2 crank. After looking at it again, i originally thought it might have been an HKS RB24 crank for the RB20 engines. But after checking my photos i found out that the picture i have posted is actually an old school HKS 2.7L forged full counterweight crank. Like the crank i am using in my engine (the hks 2.6L step 3) it has been out of production for quite some time. I can remember seeing them a long time ago in the HKS catalogue and in japanese magazines. (conveniently i dont seem to be able to find any information now) I cannot explain why the said crank has HKSA (HONG KONG STUDENT ASSOCIATION?) on it, nor can i explain what it means, but i am almost certain that it IS an HKS product. This crank was on an auction many years back. It was a series of 3 photos. It was a new crank that was still in the box. I havent a clue as to why the oil galleries in the crank did not line up with the bearings. That really does seem strange. Sorry mate cant shed any light there.

So gav, what happened in the end?

Glad he has a "ridgie-didge" crank in there. The reason I posted is that I ended up getting back most of what I paid for this, but it certainly wasn't a genuine part. As I said, we took pictures at the time and had a LOT of discussions with HKS Japan over the matter via the HKS dealer in WA (they didn't supply the crank by BTW). The consensus from HKS was ironically that the crank (and the one you showed from the auction) probably WAS from Hong Kong. The box was marked up as HKS in my case also.

When you compare the real deal with what I had (and your auction photos), you can see the difference in quality immediately.

Back on topic, my engine specs are pretty close to what you are piecing together. If you want to chat off line regarding what I would have done different in the light of 20/20 hindsight, freel free to drop me a PM.

Keep up the good work both on the engineering and the write-up.

[GTR STI]

Oil holes not lining up with Bearing Grooves.

Could it be that when you machine the jornals undersized....being that the oil holes shown are angled, as you machine the jornals down, the hole will move off centre.

Question...do bearing manufactures move the bearing groove acordinging to suit undersized jornals?

Chris, Darren...couldn't meet two more helpful or nicer guys.....Darren, the sound of that 33, love it....I'll get there this weekend.

Edited June 26, 2009 by GTR STI

[Walk510]

Funny...he said nothing like that to me when i spoke to him last. Im just trying to help people out thats all...if some people dont want to listen and have a head in the sand approach its their issue...not mine.

Roy the only issue we have had with Vi-PEC is interference with the USB interface. Ive changed to serial cable on my car now and it runs flawlessly. The Ruzic engine monitor plugging straight into the Vi-PEC and the Ruzic software having its own dedicated Vi-PEC set-up section is also a bonus.

You can use whatever ecu you choose. Ill keep using what works for me best and i expect you will do the same. A few of the NSW roundy roundy boys were bagging the product only because i was using and recommending them...only to have their asses handed to them by Vi-PEC powered cars at Superlap. I thought that was very ironic.

wow other people that are sick of dirtgarage's shit talk on all other ecu's vipec aren't in the same league as some of the other ecu's he bags at the end up the day they are a good entry level ecu no doubt but not in the same league as other he compare's them too

i've asked questions to dirt in another thread and he wouldn't reply if anyone has there head in the sand it is you dirt

i need to get a sticker made up " I GOT VIPEC YO"

[Swiper the Fox]

wow other people that are sick of dirtgarage's shit talk on all other ecu's vipec aren't in the same league as some of the other ecu's he bags at the end up the day they are a good entry level ecu no doubt but not in the same league as other he compare's them too

i've asked questions to dirt in another thread and he wouldn't reply if anyone has there head in the sand it is you dirt

i need to get a sticker made up " I GOT VIPEC YO"

Why should i even bother helping you out when you ask questions like this

doesn't the vipec have a chute function in it too ????

since it's a better than a motec ???

Or patronising ones like this

i know this is a vipec thread for fcuks sake, though i have one question

since the masters of ecu's are here

what is the difference between the "LINK" and "Vipec" ecu

or childish ones like this

where's dirtgarage to flog the crap out of vipec yo

when you have genuine questions put to you like this one that has been unanswered for 3 years

what so hard about dog box in traffic ? i just bought one from japan...trust 6 speed and am planning to put ikea formula sequential shifter kit on it...will that make it easier to drive ?

and rebuild..how often does it need to be rebuild ?

thanks

If you do have genuine question about the Vi-PEC product feel free to shoot me a PM so its taken seriously...If your just on here to throw smartass comments in threads your not wanted.

back to the build thread...

Edited June 27, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[AtomicBomberMan]

Oil holes not lining up with Bearing Grooves.

Could it be that when you machine the jornals undersized....being that the oil holes shown are angled, as you machine the jornals down, the hole will move off centre.

Question...do bearing manufactures move the bearing groove acordinging to suit undersized jornals?

Chris, Darren...couldn't meet two more helpful or nicer guys.....Darren, the sound of that 33, love it....I'll get there this weekend.

Cheers Phil, thanks for the kind words. We are just as anxious to see your beast back on the road! Its been so long in the making! Good question,

i cant answer that sorry as i really do not know. Does anyone else know?

BB i am still considering about tapping the holes. Just because we are continuing with the thread doesnt mean its not getting done. As you can probably guess by now, the Actual status of the build is well beyond where we are up to in the thread. I dont want you to think I am ignoring good advice!

Edited June 27, 2009 by AtomicBomberMan

[dazmo]

Oil holes not lining up with Bearing Grooves.

Could it be that when you machine the jornals undersized....being that the oil holes shown are angled, as you machine the jornals down, the hole will move off centre.

Question...do bearing manufactures move the bearing groove acordinging to suit undersized jornals?

Chris, Darren...couldn't meet two more helpful or nicer guys.....Darren, the sound of that 33, love it....I'll get there this weekend.

Hey Phil I would say that the the oil hole in the crank not lining with the bearing journel is due to it being a defective crank (cheap copy) as machineing for undersized bearings would not move the the hole in the crank anywhere near as much as what is shown in that pic. Although it would move them very slightly it would not be enough to cause any issue as any machineing for undersized bearings is generally only by .25mm so wouldnt have much of an effect in this area.

And guys that is enough of the Vipec debate if you want to debate this start another thread. I doubt this car will end up useing on anyway as it will more than likely be getting tuned by the same tuner that does my car and as I have stated he has a preference for Motec this is still not 100% decided but is looking like the route we will be taking.

[Beer Baron]

just to clear one thing up, I only mentioned what garth told me paul AFTER you brought it up in here. I would never have mentioned it in here otherwise, but you came in here and posted about them using vipec. I do and did believe you, I was just relaying what the driver (tuner?) of the car said, and he told me that part of the cars success came from the time he spent tuning the centre diff maps in the motec. apparently it has maps for the AWD split and can be infinitely tuned based on a whole bunch of parameters. so he can set up how much front drive he wants under 0 throttle, braking conditions with road speed say above 100kph, and a diffferent one with the same conditions but with road speed below 100kph, and he can set up another split with say, TPS above 50% and a certain amount of steering angle on (ie post apex cornering) and another one for 100% throttle and low steering angle up to say 100kph, and then have it back to rwd above a certain speed etc. maybe he has got it wrong and the vipec can do all that stuff? if so that is very impressive.

[SimonR32]

i find it funny that people are debating which is a better ecu...

all ecu's are very very basic in their functions, i would actually call most of them dumb!!!

most aftermarket ecu's struggle to run a factory car better than a factory ecu.

you can have all the functions in the world, but if you only use the ecu to change fuel and timing... whats the point of spending the bigger dollars?!?

[Swiper the Fox]

just to clear one thing up, I only mentioned what garth told me paul AFTER you brought it up in here. I would never have mentioned it in here otherwise, but you came in here and posted about them using vipec. I do and did believe you, I was just relaying what the driver (tuner?) of the car said, and he told me that part of the cars success came from the time he spent tuning the centre diff maps in the motec. apparently it has maps for the AWD split and can be infinitely tuned based on a whole bunch of parameters. so he can set up how much front drive he wants under 0 throttle, braking conditions with road speed say above 100kph, and a diffferent one with the same conditions but with road speed below 100kph, and he can set up another split with say, TPS above 50% and a certain amount of steering angle on (ie post apex cornering) and another one for 100% throttle and low steering angle up to say 100kph, and then have it back to rwd above a certain speed etc. maybe he has got it wrong and the vipec can do all that stuff? if so that is very impressive.

It was a bit of a co-incidence that i was again at Insight on the weekend (Scott Kuhner is involved with the development of both our drag GTR, circuit GTR and crews for us at the track). So i thought id snap a few pics with the phone. The Vi-PEC is still under the dash where i saw it the day before Superlap...why would the car run Vi-PEC signage at Superlap if it was using another ECU?? Elias' S2000 was there also and is another car that has switched to Vi-PEC with outstanding success. You maybe should talk to John Boston and ask him what he thinks as you guys seem to think he is the man. Call Scott at Insight or drop in and have a chat...he can go over all the winning cars at this years event with you and answer any questions you may have.

We tuned the Vi-PEC in our circuit car on Saturday and got some excellent gains in throttle response and overall power. It made 520AWHP at 17 psi with the AFR's at a constant 11.5 with 17deg advance on BP98. This will be wicked up a bit this weekend after we replace the CAS as the Vi-PEC showed it running errors when we viewed the log...this is something that we couldn't have previously seen or known about with the old ECU we previously used.

Yes Richard...it is impressive. Thats the reason why i am trying to share this information but constantly get belted over the head when i attempt to. Im over getting crap from the haters over this...you guys dont want to hear it thats fine...please yourselves.

Happy motoring.

Edited June 29, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[dazmo]

So is it the case that the diff maps in the EVO can be tuned thru the Vipec just the same as they can in the Motec ? as this would no doubt be a huge advantage to be able to customize diff maps and as Richard said would no doubt be the major difference in performance in the car.

That is some good results you are getting from your circuit GTR will be good if you could get up to QLD when your up here next and get out to one of Paul Ruzics track days for a few laps. Would be good to catch up again.

[BezerkR32]

shit mate, didnt want to start an ECU war, just wanted to give you a heads up....

shame you guys cant manipulate the standard ecu, but running the afms restricts what your plumbing on the intake side anyway, but depending on what power you want to make a pair of z32s are good for 400kw anyway. these rbs dont seem to like making more power than that for large periods of time. not when you turn them too hard anyway. Good luck with your ECU choice and your build.

[9krpm]

shame you guys cant manipulate the standard ecu,

It can be done mate. I know a group of tuners in QLD that are able to manipulate the stock ecu's ranging from nissan to Lambo ecu's.

They once tuned an M5 with 3 live emulators and 3 lap tops

It all comes down to which tuner atomicbomberman will prefer and what ecu the tuner is comfortbale with