Which is the ultimate? Supra VS GT-R

[8thSIN]

i am aware that this is a skyline forum, but just had to ask and see what "biased" opinions I get.

I wanna compare 2 of the most hardcore cars that come from Japan - Supra TT and GTR. for arguments sake, lets say it's a R33 GTR.

No doubt the GTR and it's 4wd ability would kill the supra on launch but what I'm curious to know about both cars on track or top speed racing circuit? Lets say both cars are running 450kw @ wheels.. I am amazed at the top end pull / power of the Supraafter watching Getaway in Stockholm 2 and no doubt the GTR will reach 300kph as easily too.

As both cars are quite equally priced, I have heard that the TT Supra's come equipped with 550cc injectors and it's factory internals are good for 800bhp?? Also I love the fact that it comes with a 6spd box which is another reason for it's amazing top end power.

although the GTR is a rwd/4wd car, blistering acceleration and equipped with brembo's.. when modified to the max, I believe the extra capacity of the supra's engine will out drag the GTR in full modified trim.

of course I'll be using either one of these machines mainly for street and track, but am curious to know which one I would get the better bang for my $$$

anyway, sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get other ppl's opinions on this subject. cheers!

[T0nyGTSt]

The Supra just does not have the heritage of the Skyline.

The Supra does have the capacity, the bottom end and the stock components are of a higher 'load' for modification.

ie. the injectors do not need to upgraded.

But the turbos are sequential (not good more modding hence the big singles) and it is RWD only. The Getrag box is ok but not as strong as the GT-R box.

Thing is - capacity is something the GT-R can always get with 2.7/2.8 and 3.0 kits available.

The motor in the Supra is square so I'd imagine it'll always be a bit more torquey than the Skyline.

T.

[Kutter]

Originally posted by 8thSIN

when modified to the max, I believe the extra capacity of the supra's engine will out drag the GTR in full modified trim.

i once saw a best motoring clip where an R33 GT-R and a JZA80 Supra(by Veilside i think) had a run. From 0-400m the GT-R won....but after that....they continued on to the 1000m mark and the Supra nudged out the GT-R.

[T0nyGTSt]

Also strangely enough the GT-R has the weight advantage.

You know the R32 goes in at 1,430kg.

It is reasonably easy to get the R33 down to under 1,500kg.

T.

[dangerous_daveo]

Well personally I wouldnt say the R33... Just my opinion of them they arent better than say an R32... My oppinon however on that bit.

But I have read a few times that the supra is the most over-engineered car ever built. And it does actually have some fair heritage, not as good as the skyline, but still there.

Also take off the speed limiter it does 298kmh, stock, and there have been a few that have done just a tad over 300kmh, also stock... So with that (not sure of the skidpan Gs) but its almost a actual supercar. So I go with the supra.

However I wouldnt say no to either

[T0nyGTSt]

The problem with the Supra is that it's designed for the US market with all the disadvantages that entails.

The GT-R was always a tightly focussed JDM only design and this single mindedness lead to the leader you see today.

T.

[8thSIN]

But the turbos are sequential (not good more modding hence the big singles) and it is RWD only. The Getrag box is ok but not as strong as the GT-R box.

yea, that is one of the concerns. I understand that big singles are a no-no for street and only for drags which is fairly obvious as it would be an absolute pain waiting for lets say a HKS T51R turbo to spool up a few secs after the lights turn green

due to the popularity of the GTR, there are a host of excellent twin turbo "response" kits which give heaps better power and still maintaining driveability which is perfect.

can't really say I've seen many supra's with a decent twin turbo kit compared to a massive single blower

[SmoothLine]

Originally posted by dangerous_daveo

Also take off the speed limiter it does 298kmh, stock, and there have been a few that have done just a tad over 300kmh, also stock...  

Wrong.

[WazR32GTSt]

smoothline, when you say wrong you need proof othewise...

ui like supras as i used to own an 87 one. the engine is STRONG and apparently bloody quick. i put my money on the supra as far as engine goes.

but for the rest my money is on the 'line... AWD, lower weight...

just my 2c

[GeneralSpeed]

Assuming hp is the same...

Skyline easily outhandles Supra. Skyline easily out-launches Supra.

However...

Supra easily out-accelerates Skyline once it is above about 60km/h.

If you want to do the drag strip thing, it's a hard question. You can get a GTR into the 10's without changing the internals of the engine. You can also do the same for a Supra, though you require much more hp to make up for the lacklustre launching that Supras have.

If you like to race people on the freeway, a single turbo Supra on stock internals with high octance race fuel is virtually unbeatable, and very streetable too (can just turn down boost to run 98octane for normal driving). However if you like stoplight racing, the Skyline's AWD will pretty much own the Supra.

Around a racing circuit the Skyline wins easily, Supra really can't compare.

So it depends on what you want to use them for. If you love freeway roll-ons, and have the above-mentioned single turbo (ie T88) Supra, it would require an absolutely mind-blowingly engineered, and priced, Skyline to just keep up because they have to rebuild the engine from the bottom up, and will most likely have to deal with being at least 200cc's down (unless they get the OS-Giken 3-litre block). From a stop though, the Skyline can hold it's own, and will be many seconds per lap ahead on the track, and almost always ahead on the drag strip given hp is the same.

[SHUTO-BOY]

i just saw a fully worked GTR with t51-r spl turbo and 1 full house supra with twin gt30s

but i still reckon, GTR is king

[8thSIN]

Hi GeneralSpeed - thx for ur response, that pretty much clears the questions in my mind.

I currently own a 200kw atw 98 rexy and am pretty sick of the stoplight racing

I want something that would give me a tremendous shove in the back that can also pull quite long in each gear as the rex hits redline too quick and I luv to rev. That being said, the supra's internals and 6spd box will do the above vey nicely for me

I guess high speed, top end driving is what really gets me and I believe the supra has been designed for that (taking nothing away from the GTR) . Both awesome cars and very hard choice indeed.

[DaiOni]

why has no one mentioned the FD rx7?

GTR is, overall, a far better car than the supra for _practical_ uses. Using Japan as a guideline - Supras are not successful at circuit racing (nowhere near the front runners at tsukuba), are not as commomly drag raced, and if drift is seen as worthwhile - forget it. So what are they good for?? Well they look awesome and are the weapon of choice for high speed runs - the JUN beast being a top example.

[i'd like to (have to?) mention that the FD is pretty much the only top shelf car that is a true all-rounder - and successful at it - cheaper to get into the 10s on the drag strip, top rwd car at tsukuba, winning this years D1... And still a common car on the japanese pro-circuit]

In case someone is thinking about mentioning the JGTC - well let's not forget that a JGTC supra has about as much in common with the street version as a v8 tourer has with a commodore or falcon.

Don't get me wrong - the supra is a beautiful car, would make a fine street car - but shows its limitations if you feel the need to compare.

[b0neR]

Yeah Skyline in general is better for racing, but so it should be, its got race heritage and a racecar look. On the other hand the Supra was produced more as a 'Sportscar' for highspeed highway cruising and smooth (with stock turbos) suburban driving. It just happens to be very very quick for quite a small price.

I must admit you would get a bit mislead if reading about Supra's on the net simply because most of the information about them is from the US. The locally delivered US model has more power than its JDM twin and in general is easier to tune (i.e. before doing more major upgrades, single turbo's etc.).

Personally it would depend what i wanted the car for. If i had the choice and i wanted a sexy, fast and extremely cool cruisin' car (just look at that c0ckpit-like interior!) i'd go a Supra. But if i wanted something more of a weekend track warrior and day to day quick car with presence and heritage i'd go a GT-R.

Apart from that most of what everyone has said so far is true in terms of validity and personally i just cant decide which car is 'ultimate' in my opinion.

[CNG]

8thSin,

I must too, put forward a vote for the 3rd Gen RX7.

In my opinion, there is nothing quite like the sound of a rotary revving its nuts off at 8500-9000 rpm while the speedo gets to the other side of 200 km/h (RB26 included!). Its awesome abilities when punted around a racetrack in standard form is also a very big bonus.

It also looks the best out of the 3!

I have posted in great detail the dynamics of each of the 3 cars mentioned here in the forums, so do a seach on what I have posted in the past, and it should give you a fairly good idea of what to expect.

Currently, I drive the exact 2 cars you are considering...the Supra as the daily driver, and the R33 as the weekend warrior. Its not a fair comparison between the two as the R33 is "fairly" modified (~300 awKw), and the Supra pretty much stock (~230rwKw), but I can compare from when I had a stock R32 GTR and the Supra, you could definately feel the difference 0.4L makes in daily traffic making it all so much easier to drive, and to beat others in a rolling start, where traction limitations are much reduced.

That said, if I had a choice now, I would probably return to my first love, and buy a S8 RX7 and work its nuts off for your intended application. Trust me, you wont be dissapointed!

Let us know what you end up choosing!

Cheers,

Chris

[HKSgtst]

i heard that the 2JZ-GTE is capable of withstanding 600hp on standard internals and the RB26dett can only get just below 500hp before needing to upgrade the internals.

But for me, a GTR all the waay

[Roy]

I hear what your all saying about the strength of the Supra engine (and i think you will find the gearbox is very capable behind huge hp engines, remember it wont have the same shock loading that a GTR with its 4wd drive)

But its my understanding that Supras dont have very flexible management, oridinary std IC, injectors that soon run out of duty, and manifolding means if you want more hp its either hi-flow std or go to the expense of new manifold turbo, plumbing etc.

So basically if you buy one, then they are expensive to modify to a mild state of tune. Reason i think you see so many basically std ones, or the other extreme with big Trust singles.

[si]

I've got a vid here of an R33 GT-R vs Supra RZ....both stock.

at the 400 mark they are:

gtr - 13.213

supra - 14.058

and at the end of it, i think they do 1000m...

gtr - 240.38km/h

supra - 236.15km/h

[skylineakt]

HPI did a story on Supra and Skyline once and compared the two. I remember they were saying that in the US Supras make some big powers.

And for the same modifications you make on a Supra and a Skyline, the Supra will actually create more power. But than again as mention above, Skyline has the advantage of Attessa.

HPI also did a Supra man vs Skyline man which I though was really good. But still in looks, handling and heritage SKYLINE IS STILL THE KING!! hehe

[DaiOni]

I've posted this before, but here it goes again - some actual data - instead of biased owners rambling on with opinion

Bearing in mind, of course, that we are referring to the mighty v-spec in this comparo (which is taken from bestmotoring in 96):

* RX7 RS - 1280kg - 265ps. (4.83kg/ps). Standard sports model. RWD.

* RX7 RZ - 1250kg (recaro racing seats, no rear seats) - 265ps. (4.72kg/ps). Top line car (but only mildly upgraded). RWD.

* Supra RZ-S - 1490kg - 280ps. (5.32kg/ps). RWD.

* GTO MR (3000GT) - 1610kg - 280ps. (6.6kg/ps). 4WD.

* NSX-R - 1230kg - 280ps. (4.39kg/ps). RWD.

* NSX - 1350kg - 280ps. (4.82kg/ps). RWD.

* R33 GTR V-spec - 1530kg - 280ps. (5.5kg/ps). Atessa 4WD.

- 0-400m -

* R33 GTR V-spec: 12.978 (used a couple of times in the comparison - other times: 13.06/13.31/13.01)

* NSX-R: 13.276

* RX7 RZ: 13.386

* GTO MR: 13.395

* RX7 RS: 13.566

* NSX: 13.636

* Supra RZ-S: 13.982

- Autokhana -

hairpin/chicane section:

* NSX-R: 9.96sec

* RX7 RZ: 10.01sec

* R33 GTR V-spec: 10.14sec

* NSX: 10.28sec

* RX7 RS: 10.30sec

* Supra RZ-S: 10.33sec

* GTO MR: 10.50sec

laptimes:

* R33 GTR V-spec: 36.25sec

* RX7 RZ: 36.28sec

* NSX-R: 36.33sec

* NSX: 37.14sec

* RX7 RS: 37.30sec

* GTO MR: 37.33sec

* Supra RZ-S: 37.58sec

(note: the following two are fairly meaningless without the full description, but is a ranking of sorts)

handling rating (out of 10)

* R33 GTR V-spec: 9.2

* NSX-R: 9.5

* RX7 RS: 9.0

* RX7 RZ: 8.8

* Supra RZ-S: 8.5

* NSX: 7.8

* GTO MR: 7.0

engine/transmission rating (out of 10)

* NSX-R: 10

* RX7 RZ: 9.2

* NSX: 9.2

* R33 GTR V-spec: 9.0

* RX7 RS: 8.8

* GTO MR: 8.8

* Supra RZ-S: 8.5

- Tsukuba Circuit Race -

(5 laps)

(note: the grid was set with a handicap penalty - but I'm not sure what that was based on)

Grid:

1: Supra RZ-S/RX7 RS

2: RX7 RZ/GTO MR

3: NSX/R33 GTR V-spec

4. NSX-R

Finishing Order:

1. NSX-R

2. RX7 RZ

3. R33 GTR V-spec

4. GTO MR

5. Supra RZ-S

6. NSX

7. RX7 RS

Best Lap:

1. NSX-R: 1'06.33

2. RX7 RZ: 1'06:36

3. R33 GTR V-spec: 1'07:13

4. RX7 RS: 1'07:44

5. NSX: 1'07: 49

6. Supra RZ-S: 1'07:76

7. GTO MR: 1'07:78