Skyline Space Frame

[GTS4WD]

Will the Space Fram 32 be competing in the sports sedan seires of the Shannons Nationals?

And the Excel is fugn awesome!

[Risking]

Eventually thats the plan yes.

This car will be finished and sold as a rolling chassis and Ill finish off another 2nd car to race.

It will take time to get them competative so ill run them in the state series straight up.

Liams little excel certainly looks the goods, ive used alot of his ideas in my own cars.

[Riverside Racing Parts]

Any more progress brad?

[Risking]

Yeah a little Liam.

Engine has been relocated to the center due to a few complex issues with the original position and the components I want to use.

Center mounting makes the whole lot easier in this chassis, the other car will be offset.

The engine is 350mm further back than an original GTR and roughly 200mm lower maybe 250mm depending on the final ride height.

With the body shell over the top we have a 75mm ride height so that has to be addressed with final supsension mountings.

Those are the turbos the car will use to start off with, Twin TD0620G L2's.

They had made in excess of 550Kw on the road car with stuff all boost. The roadie needs turbos now though!

[NZM.031]

risking... you sir.. are a machine of an animal... and you're going to have one animal of a machine!

p.s. the excel looks phat in that photo... should leave it like that and go rat rod style... hahaha.

[MBS206]

Brad, what's the pipe made of and what ID and OD that you're using and what sort of welder are you using to weld it all?

I'm having ideas (Non space frame related) but I need to know what a strong pipe would be to use chassis wise, and what I'm up for to weld it...

[Risking]

Im using CDS mild steel tube and 4130 molly tube on some less structural stuff. OD is 44.5 and wall thickness is 2.6mm for the CDS.

CDS mild steel tube is perfect for most chassis work. Im also using 38 OD 2.6wall for the smaller guage stuff, like bracing and engine mounts etc etc. a Mild steel chassis whilst being a little heavier will outlast a full molly chassis without a sweat. Its also easier to repair should it be smashed.

Everything I do is TIG welded and knotched at the joint.

What are you considering??

[MBS206]

  Risking said:

Im using CDS mild steel tube and 4130 molly tube on some less structural stuff. OD is 44.5 and wall thickness is 2.6mm for the CDS.

CDS mild steel tube is perfect for most chassis work. Im also using 38 OD 2.6wall for the smaller guage stuff, like bracing and engine mounts etc etc. a Mild steel chassis whilst being a little heavier will outlast a full molly chassis without a sweat. Its also easier to repair should it be smashed.

Everything I do is TIG welded and knotched at the joint.

What are you considering??

Something like a Go-Kart, but bigger, with an aluminium "body"

[NZM.031]

and a supercharged honda b16a engine??

[XRATED]

Love it... tube frame+big top mounts= serious fun!

[Duncan]

Matt....you need to search for "supersport" on my105....or these guys: http://www.cams.com.au/Sport/Club%20Zone/C...0AUSTRALIA.aspx

there will be lots of pre-built (ie lots of money spent) cars available, currently sitting in sheds. farking quick ones.

[NZM.031]

Brad... Can you tell me when you get a chance where you think the excess metal is in the r32s. I would like to confirm my thoughts before hacking away.

[Risking]

How serious are you prepared to go ????

There is more dead weight in a skyline than you can possibly remove.

The entire rear end is stupid as too is the front., inner wheel arches have 3 skins, floor pans are doubled over, fire walls are double skinned.

Here are a few photos which highlight the wasted weight so to speak. Very hard to cut it out and retain the original body shell though as its internal.

For an ordinary car front to back id suggest, the entire front head light support and rad support, Front chassis rails from the X member forward (no im not joking) the entire wheel arch, turret and shock tower (make towers integrated into the cage and new guard mounts from small tube), The inner fire wall skin, inner sill pannels, entire rear floor pan (including the boot floor and rear seat pan) and intergrate the rear subframe mounts into the cage, rear beaver pannel and all the internal skins (which are negligable anyways).

Alot of the car becomes structural when you go that far but the weight saved is imense.

Also ditch the front and rear subframes for molly tube items and replace uprights/hubs etc.

Like I said depends how far your willing and can afford to go....

[bigmikespec]

Can you utilise the existing cast alloy hubs when you go to a double wishbone front suspension in a Skyline GTS/GTR? I would imagine removing the big cast upright in the front suspension and also the lower arm would go a long way in getting rid of weight in a critical area.

[Risking]

Subframes are the heaviest waste.

Molly tube subframes with proper wishbone suspension are way lighter and work a million times better.

Done right they are a good thing, do it wrong and its makes the car a heap of shit

[Risking]

You can but its kinda rough the way way it needs to be done.

The stupid upright and upper arm is best used a boat anchor, I have a molly tube subframe drawn up for the front and rear of the GTR but the expense puts it out of reach for most people. A wishbone conversion is not an easy thing to design for a skyline,

The time spent Jigging it up and fabrication is not worth it to turn out 3 items.

What Ive desgined for them is a complete tube subframe with front and rear wishbone suspension, Shim adjustable, molly arms and new uprights, slight ackerman angle changes, awesome bump steer control. Roll center adjustments are easy etc etc

To sell them cost is the issue though.

[NZM.031]

Thanks brad, I'm prepared to go mental, but as per time attack rules, so the chassis rails must stay whole, no space frame extensions, unless that rule changes.. I'm mounting the engine further back (not an rb), so gearbox, pedal box and drivers seat will all be moved back, removing all sheet metal from struts forward and replacing with tube frame and c/f tubs. front suspension has been thrown in the bin, replacing with a much lighter and simpler option.. Will be making new crossmembers for engine and one for control arms and steering rack. Ditching the power steering.. V mount setup just before strut towers. I have the car fully stripped now and I can pick up one end and move it around, can't wait to make it lighter. Everything will be seam welded and spot welded now.

[bigmikespec]

Risking, very good info there. I can imagine there is a lot of work involved and you are right get it wrong and you have to start over. Would love to be able to discuss some ideas with you could you please PM your email address or phone number.

Mike

[Risking]

Pardon my ignorance but we talking bout a gtst or gtr??

What kind of experiabce do you have with building race cars and have you spoken to any good suspension engineers before you go hacking the car apart??

My honest advise is to not play god untill you have the required knowledge and experiabce to do so, I wouldn't go moving engines etc and guessing. Buy corner weights or borrow some and do it properly. You'd be suprised what you'll find when you move engines etc and the effects it has. Nit nessisarily good!

I personally would not waste my time with a time attack car so to speak, regardless of how good you are there is always going to be faster andrhe car is usless after the event till next year. Build a car around the state sports sedan rules and race it all year round.

I'm happy to offer you advise and knowledge, it's up to you what you do with it though.

[NZM.031]

  Risking said:

Pardon my ignorance but we talking bout a gtst or gtr??

What kind of experiabce do you have with building race cars and have you spoken to any good suspension engineers before you go hacking the car apart??

My honest advise is to not play god untill you have the required knowledge and experiabce to do so, I wouldn't go moving engines etc and guessing. Buy corner weights or borrow some and do it properly. You'd be suprised what you'll find when you move engines etc and the effects it has. Nit nessisarily good!

I personally would not waste my time with a time attack car so to speak, regardless of how good you are there is always going to be faster andrhe car is usless after the event till next year. Build a car around the state sports sedan rules and race it all year round.

I'm happy to offer you advise and knowledge, it's up to you what you do with it though.

no need for pardon... its just a gtst... and im grateful for all positive advice... i wont be completly hacking everything up, i just had some ideas of whats unnecessary and what can be removed and replaced with lighter steel.....

im not building it to be at all competitive... nor does racing in a series interest me.... it will be a fun track day thats waay over the top for my driving skills and what it needs to do... will probs see the track maybe 3 or 4 times a year ... but id really like to enter in superlap for shits and giggles so i want to keep it within the guidelines... i just like to do things different to just bolt-ins.. my old boy has been setting up cars since he was my age... he learned by reading books and trial and error... he has built one space frame and has two more planned for different cars.. so i trust his opinion.. worst case scenario... it doesnt work.. i unbolt all the goodies and start with a fresh shell, learning from what ive done.. or change everything back.. its only metal held together with spot welds and adhesive... doesnt bother me if i waste a year or two... its already been one year and its only just to the point of being stripped... its given me something to do and think about.. i need things to focus on.

cheers

i just like to build things.