Turbo For Nm35.what Is It Called?

[mym35]

Can anyone tell me what is the turbo from the m35 called?.e.g, turbo on s14,15 is a garrett t28bb/on a bluebird with sr20det motor it is a t25g.Also is the exhaust flange a "T3" or "T2"?I guess what i am trying to find out is , has anyone found a suitable replacement turbo,say HKS,Garrett,etc.?

Is hi flowing the original turbo the only way to go?

[zei20l]

It doesnt really have a classification, because no one actually knows the specs on it.........

From pics and peoples experience on here, its got T3 flanges. there isnt much room hence why people hi-flow the stock turbo because anything bigger will foul something.....

[Bis-e Bee]

It doesnt really have a classification, because no one actually knows the specs on it.........

From pics and peoples experience on here, its got T3 flanges. there isnt much room hence why people hi-flow the stock turbo because anything bigger will foul something.....

Jetwreck (Craig) confirmed this the other night, there is really no other option for a different turbo, the space is way too cramped and the location they are runs so hot.

It took several hours to get the turbo out and even more of that time to get it back in! That is how fiddly the spot where it is located is to get to.

I think high-flow is the best option due to the logistics, Craig went for the Garrett Ball Bearings type high-flow (shortened the length of the turbo) but I'm leaning more towards the bushes option of high-flow.

[iamhe77]

Can anyone tell me what is the turbo from the m35 called?.e.g, turbo on s14,15 is a garrett t28bb/on a bluebird with sr20det motor it is a t25g.Also is the exhaust flange a "T3" or "T2"?I guess what i am trying to find out is , has anyone found a suitable replacement turbo,say HKS,Garrett,etc.?

Is hi flowing the original turbo the only way to go?

NM35 Turbo is a Garrett M24N as you can see.

I have requested specs & highflow options for this item and will post when (IF!) I get anything back that may help.

but I'm leaning more towards the bushes option of high-flow.

You won't be disappointed.

Edited June 9, 2009 by iamhe77

[Jetwreck]

You won't be disappointed.

+1 for no disappointment

[Bis-e Bee]

<<-- copied from my e-mail for those that may be interested -->>

Stephen There used to be a company called sliding performance that did bush bearing high flows, they lasted less than 6 months doing so. There are also companies that use Garrett ball bearing cores, this shortens the distance between the housings and also requires modification of oil and water lines. We @ GCG are the only company that use the factory bearing housing, and once the unit is modified, it is 100% bolt on, no further modifications are required. Regards,

Michael Ramsay

Internal Sales

PO Box 251 Condell Park NSW AUSTRALIA 2200 Free Call - 1300 TURBOS Ph +61 02 9708 2122 Fax +61 02 9708 2912 www.gcg.com.au

<<-- tell 'em the price son, tell 'em the price! -->>

Stephen Thanks for the enquiry. All of these units come with a ceramic turbine wheel, that has a boost limitation of 14psi. Once this boost level is exceeded, the risk of losing the ceramic turbine wheel greatly increases. In upgrading this factory unit, GCG Turbochargers replace the weak ceramic turbine wheel with a larger than factory steel wheel. Whilst the unit is apart, all parts are replaced with new parts, such as the ball bearings and the seals. GCG also fit a larger compressor wheel, and machine the compressor housing to suit. A full gasket kit is also inlcuded in the upgrade. Once the unit is modified, there are NO further modifications required for re-fitting. Another advantage is that all factory heat shielding can be re-used, and the unit looks factory. The price to do this upgrade is $1955.00 Including GST. Regards,

Michael Ramsay

Internal Sales

PO Box 251 Condell Park NSW AUSTRALIA 2200 Free Call - 1300 TURBOS Ph +61 02 9708 2122 Fax +61 02 9708 2912 www.gcg.com.au

[crisis]

<<-- copied from my e-mail for those that may be interested -->>

Stephen There used to be a company called sliding performance that did bush bearing high flows, they lasted less than 6 months doing so. There are also companies that use Garrett ball bearing cores, this shortens the distance between the housings and also requires modification of oil and water lines. We @ GCG are the only company that use the factory bearing housing, and once the unit is modified, it is 100% bolt on, no further modifications are required. Regards,

Michael Ramsay

Internal Sales

PO Box 251 Condell Park NSW AUSTRALIA 2200 Free Call - 1300 TURBOS Ph +61 02 9708 2122 Fax +61 02 9708 2912 www.gcg.com.au

<<-- tell 'em the price son, tell 'em the price! -->>

Stephen Thanks for the enquiry. All of these units come with a ceramic turbine wheel, that has a boost limitation of 14psi. Once this boost level is exceeded, the risk of losing the ceramic turbine wheel greatly increases. In upgrading this factory unit, GCG Turbochargers replace the weak ceramic turbine wheel with a larger than factory steel wheel. Whilst the unit is apart, all parts are replaced with new parts, such as the ball bearings and the seals. GCG also fit a larger compressor wheel, and machine the compressor housing to suit. A full gasket kit is also inlcuded in the upgrade. Once the unit is modified, there are NO further modifications required for re-fitting. Another advantage is that all factory heat shielding can be re-used, and the unit looks factory. The price to do this upgrade is $1955.00 Including GST. Regards,

Michael Ramsay

Internal Sales

PO Box 251 Condell Park NSW AUSTRALIA 2200 Free Call - 1300 TURBOS Ph +61 02 9708 2122 Fax +61 02 9708 2912 www.gcg.com.au

Did they provide before and after dyno figures perchance?

MM

[zei20l]

omg for $2k you can buy a whole brand new turbo.

there has to be aftermarket turbos for a VQ25DET, did a cima or cedric or gloria come with this engine too??

[mym35]

omg for $2k you can buy a whole brand new turbo.

there has to be aftermarket turbos for a VQ25DET, did a cima or cedric or gloria come with this engine too??

I would like to add my 20 cents worth.A. No one has been able to come up with any alternative to suit vq25det.

B. from what i have read,and i have read heaps,this turbo was made exclusively for our model stag.

C. Yes, at first glance GCG might appear to an expensive option,remember,this option enables you to use all the original lines/fittings.Savings there will be quite considerable.

D. thanks to Stephen for his investigations/and preparedness to share his information.

E.Jetwreck(craig?)who actually did your hi flow /are you happy wih them as you havent shared this info with us.(My apologies if i have that wrong.)

[Bis-e Bee]

Did they provide before and after dyno figures perchance?

MM

No, I didn't ask. I'm not sure if they have done any of that particular turbo, I gather it's special as per what someone else said. I'm not really that fussed on stats as such, but after going for a ride in jetwreck's car high-flow is a good option

omg for $2k you can buy a whole brand new turbo.

there has to be aftermarket turbos for a VQ25DET, did a cima or cedric or gloria come with this engine too??

If you find one let us know, I've got a feeling you will come up empty handed tho! I think the VQ25DET is rare and may only have been used in the Stagea?! The VQ25DE is used in the new Maxima but alas no DET version.

I would like to add my 20 cents worth.A. No one has been able to come up with any alternative to suit vq25det.

B. from what i have read,and i have read heaps,this turbo was made exclusively for our model stag.

C. Yes, at first glance GCG might appear to an expensive option,remember,this option enables you to use all the original lines/fittings.Savings there will be quite considerable.

D. thanks to Stephen for his investigations/and preparedness to share his information.

E.Jetwreck(craig?)who actually did your hi flow /are you happy wih them as you havent shared this info with us.(My apologies if i have that wrong.)

No worries, we are here to share our information and I like to give my bit back to the community as I get so much from the information here Jetwreck had his turbo high-flowed by Precision Turbo's and paid $1650 or something similiar, but on top of that he had further work to do to run the modified turbo, I'm sure it would have easily added up to or atleast close to $2k. Craig is very happy with the result, except the lack of power taking off from the line, but once the turbo kicks in your stomach takes a posie in the back of the wagon lol I was crapping my self (hope you don't mind me putting this here Craig, should be ok as we spoke about this the other night at the meet, it's a major topic for all of us who havn't done it yet!!)

I also emailed a few other turbo joints but as of yet I have heard nothing back, GCG have been quiet helpful and very prompt in their responses to my silly questions I think I will go with GCG when I am ready to high-flow as they have a good name and should offer good support should anything go balls up.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Bis-e Bee

[andy65b]

I have just bought a second hand turbo from Japan that should be here in the next week.

I will be going through the same exercise to work our what to do to it but just to add my 2c worth (my opinion is not worth as much LOL).

Iamhe77 (Cameron) in Vic had his turbo high flowed over 12 months ago, he is not sure of the internals but it did not cost over $1k and on that basis I am reasonably sure that he has bushes in his turbo. He has been very happy with the upgrade.

Jetwreck (Craig) did a fairly bold up grade to his turbo and has huge power at the same boost level in the higher revs. He does not have the power down low at the moment and he believes this is more to do with his exhaust and need of tuning for the new turbo than anything else. We should know the result on the exhaust in the next 2 weeks.

I believe the cost to high flow the turbo through Craig's tubo builder with the bushes is closer to $750 and this is with metal impeller.

1) We know the ceramic Impeller is a weakness (has to go).

2) We know a bigger hole will help boost but may mean at slightly higher RPM.

3) The M35 turbo is ball bearing which is unusual for OEM turbo's. This was done for a reason and may be why the car has so much torgue. Having heard Craig's ball bearing turbo I can see what you pay for. You can hear his turbo spinning after the car is turned off.

I think we need some dyno figures to work out the best option.

I am getting lost....

[mxfly]

I went to a tech day at Garrett's in Chipping Norton 2 years ago and I asked if they can rebuild any turbo. They said they can do anything so I will see if I can find more info. I'm interested to do this but unfortunately, I am jobless atm..

[mym35]

I have just bought a second hand turbo from Japan that should be here in the next week.

I will be going through the same exercise to work our what to do to it but just to add my 2c worth (my opinion is not worth as much LOL).

Iamhe77 (Cameron) in Vic had his turbo high flowed over 12 months ago, he is not sure of the internals but it did not cost over $1k and on that basis I am reasonably sure that he has bushes in his turbo. He has been very happy with the upgrade.

Jetwreck (Craig) did a fairly bold up grade to his turbo and has huge power at the same boost level in the higher revs. He does not have the power down low at the moment and he believes this is more to do with his exhaust and need of tuning for the new turbo than anything else. We should know the result on the exhaust in the next 2 weeks.

I believe the cost to high flow the turbo through Craig's tubo builder with the bushes is closer to $750 and this is with metal impeller.

1) We know the ceramic Impeller is a weakness (has to go).

2) We know a bigger hole will help boost but may mean at slightly higher RPM.

3) The M35 turbo is ball bearing which is unusual for OEM turbo's. This was done for a reason and may be why the car has so much torgue. Having heard Craig's ball bearing turbo I can see what you pay for. You can hear his turbo spinning after the car is turned off.

I think we need some dyno figures to work out the best option.

I am getting lost....

the ball bearing turbo will spool up faster than the standard bush type. I've had experience with both types, no downside really with the ball or roller bearing type,just better spoolup.

[Bis-e Bee]

What we really need to track down is a complete list of Pro's and Con's for Ball Bearing Vs. Bush Bearing.

I'm leaning toward Ball Bearings at this point in time, many reasons but one of them being is that the OEM turbo was ball bearing, whether or not ball bearing = better out put this is yet to be confirmed.

Thanks for everyone adding their 2 cents worth

[Jetwreck]

Hi Guy's,

couple of things:

1/ Not sure about spending $2K for a standard BB high flow unit even if it does just bolt straight back up. But that's just me. Also good work to Stephen for finding this alternative.

2/ Andy sorry to correct...standard turbo rebuild is about $650, High flow with bush's is about $1,250 and High flow with Garrett BB + other parts approx $2K.

3/ As Andy also said I have a problem with bottom end power. I have a dump pipe on the way from Japan(should be here early next week). As soon as I get it on I will post results....fingers crossed.

4/ Also I will hopefully will be doing the ECU around the end of July beginning of August(need tax return). I will post up all dyno results from the standard tune....will also share the final results.

5/ Last but not least... interesting what GCG are saying about our standard boost....my standard was going to 16PSI and bleeding back to 12psi....probably why it shit itself.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Jetwreck

[andy65b]

I thought it was around that price but I did not want to under quote.

I found an interesting post on the Silvia WA site by "Alex".

There is always a discussion in regards to ball-bearing vs. non-ball bearing turbochargers and the performance and reliability aspects of one to another.

Question: Everyone is asking about ball-bearing turbo's and do they spool quicker than non-ball bearing turbo's. Should I pay the extra $425 which is the difference between a non-ball bearing RPS turbo kit and a ball-bearing unit?

ANSWER: All right! This question has been asked many times and I have yet to answer, so here goes. The main factor that determines when a turbo will start to spool hard is the A/R of the exhaust housing. On a side note, the weight of the exhaust wheel is a factor, i.e. a ceramic wheel. Unfortunately ceramic wheels are very, very expensive and are not readily available in the sizes we need.

Everyone needs to remember that a turbo is basically just like a kid's pin wheel that you can hold out a car window and make spin. If you increase the velocity of the car (i.e. the exhaust going into the turbo) the wheel will spin faster. If you put your hand behind the pinwheel, the wheel will slow down because air cannot flow though it. Let's talk about an engine running at 3,000 RPM, full throttle. The engine will produce a constant amount of exhaust gases as long as the RPM is held constant. So the only way to spin our "pinwheel" faster is to increase the velocity of the air. The only way to increase the velocity of the air is to use a smaller A/R ratio. The problem with too small an A/R ratio is that it will choke off air flow at higher RPM. This is why matching the turbocharger's size, CFM, exhaust back pressure vs. intake pressure, and A/R ratios is so important.

The ball bearing option was developed to improve the reliability of high output turbos. When high boost is used, there are great stresses on the centre housing bearings to keep everything in place. The ball bearing option is a great way to handle these added stresses and improve reliability.

As a side effect of using the ball bearing option, drag cars saw immediate improvements in et's. The reason for this is the ball bearing improved the rate of acceleration of the exhaust wheel, thus boost. Remember, the A/R ratio determines when the boost will start, a freeing spinning wheel (less friction with the ball bearing) will make the boost rise at a faster rate.

It's that simple. The A/R ratio determines when, the friction in the bearings affects how fast.

NOTE: If you plan on running your car hard with boost in the 23+ psi range we recommend for longevity purposes the ball-bearing option. Also, if you are a serious drag racer and want to squeeze out those better ET's that are associated with quicker spooling then this is a good idea. If you just want a fast street car that runs most of the time at 20psi or less on normal fuel, then the non-ball bearing option is a good one for you.

A bit more food for thought.

[andy65b]

Another interesting article on the ball bearing v busing discussion.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0405tur_...rt_1/index.html

Cheers

Andy

[BensDR30]

The OEM BB T3 turbo on the RB25DET spins up mighty fast from factory.

The bush-bearing 1st-gen VG30ET T3 I have on my L28 Z (high-flowed, but still with factory shaft & ceramic wheel) spins up even quicker; 0.8-bar at 2000rpm is not out of the question.

The 0.63 A/R (turbine) TO3 on ye-olde FJ20ET is a bit of a slug compared to those two, but after I fit an IEBC I think I'll need to actually map more of the tune for +'ve pressure...

A BB unit is 'nice to have', but the 'old' bush bearing units will still last the distance if provided with clean air & oil.

A good boost controller like the IEBC can help offset a slightly large A/R or turbine wheel size by keeping the wastegate closed until it's really needed - thus maximising the gas flow across the turbine. There's probably only a couple of hundred rpm between the BB & bush-bearing cores - but on a street car, does that really matter?

[oz_panda]

Hi Guy's,

couple of things:

1/ Not sure about spending $2K for a standard BB high flow unit even if it does just bolt straight back up. But that's just me. Also good work to Stephen for finding this alternative.

2/ Andy sorry to correct...standard turbo rebuild is about $650, High flow with bush's is about $1,250 and High flow with Garrett BB + other parts approx $2K.

3/ As Andy also said I have a problem with bottom end power. I have a dump pipe on the way from Japan(should be here early next week). As soon as I get it on I will post results....fingers crossed.

4/ Also I will hopefully will be doing the ECU around the end of July beginning of August(need tax return). I will post up all dyno results from the standard tune....will also share the final results.

5/ Last but not least... interesting what GCG are saying about our standard boost....my standard was going to 16PSI and bleeding back to 12psi....probably why it shit itself.

If standard Turbo rebuild is about $ 650, is that mean rebuilding our standard turbo with all new parts included bearing for that price?

Who is doing the rebuld? GCG?

because $ 650 is a good price when Im happy with the torque and power that I got at the moment...

Since Im thinking it will be a very good option for someone who is happy with the standard power but want to give a new life to the car?

[zei20l]

I have just bought a second hand turbo from Japan that should be here in the next week.

I will be going through the same exercise to work our what to do to it but just to add my 2c worth (my opinion is not worth as much LOL).

ahhh so YOU bought the one on IM? i was gonna bid on it myself for a spare