Turbo For Nm35.what Is It Called?

[andy65b]

ahhh so YOU bought the one on IM? i was gonna bid on it myself for a spare

heheheheheh..... LOL

Manged to get a mate to stick it in his airfreight and save some money.

[Bis-e Bee]

If standard Turbo rebuild is about $ 650, is that mean rebuilding our standard turbo with all new parts included bearing for that price?

Who is doing the rebuld? GCG?

because $ 650 is a good price when Im happy with the torque and power that I got at the moment...

Since Im thinking it will be a very good option for someone who is happy with the standard power but want to give a new life to the car?

Yes, but the rebuild is only a standard rebuild which I would assume means all parts as per factory specification i.e. no performance gains

Those prices were provided by Jetwreck (Craig) so it would be Precision Turbo at Wetherill Park.

Are you so certain that your turbo is playing up? Are you sure you happy with the standard power? lol

It's a lot of mucking around to pull the turbo out and then put it back in and decide later that you should have gone down the bush bearing or ball bearing high-flow road!!

But to each there own, maybe yours has already been modded or something?

[Bis-e Bee]

Another wealth of turbo information in general

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...ech_center.html

Should I assume a bush bearing is also referred to as a journal bearing? I can't find anything anywhere that confirms they are indeed one in the same.

Interesting reading though so someone may find it helpful

[andy65b]

$650 is a high flow rebuild with bushes / Journal Bearing (yes, one and the same)

My understand is that price is a full rebuild with high flow. Craig may be able to expand further.

Cheers

Andy

[Bis-e Bee]

2/ Andy sorry to correct...standard turbo rebuild is about $650, High flow with bush's is about $1,250 and High flow with Garrett BB + other parts approx $2K.

$650 is a high flow rebuild with bushes / Journal Bearing (yes, one and the same)

My understand is that price is a full rebuild with high flow. Craig may be able to expand further.

Cheers

Andy

I would have taken what Craig meant to mean -

Standard Rebuild (i.e. standard flow) $650.00

High Flow w/ bush bearings $1250.00

I highly doubt the $650 is going to gain anymore flow than the standard setup, maybe I misread what Craig said but that's my take on the matter

[andy65b]

You may doubt and you will be wrong.

The ball bearing rebuild is a lot more complicated as the case has to be ground to adapt to the bearing they use.

I have discussed this at length with Craig as I will be going down the $650 high flow path.

Cheers

Andy

[iamhe77]

I have just bought a second hand turbo from Japan that should be here in the next week.

I will be going through the same exercise to work our what to do to it but just to add my 2c worth (my opinion is not worth as much LOL).

Iamhe77 (Cameron) in Vic had his turbo high flowed over 12 months ago, he is not sure of the internals but it did not cost over $1k and on that basis I am reasonably sure that he has bushes in his turbo. He has been very happy with the upgrade.

Jetwreck (Craig) did a fairly bold up grade to his turbo and has huge power at the same boost level in the higher revs. He does not have the power down low at the moment and he believes this is more to do with his exhaust and need of tuning for the new turbo than anything else. We should know the result on the exhaust in the next 2 weeks.

I believe the cost to high flow the turbo through Craig's tubo builder with the bushes is closer to $750 and this is with metal impeller.

1) We know the ceramic Impeller is a weakness (has to go).

2) We know a bigger hole will help boost but may mean at slightly higher RPM.

3) The M35 turbo is ball bearing which is unusual for OEM turbo's. This was done for a reason and may be why the car has so much torgue. Having heard Craig's ball bearing turbo I can see what you pay for. You can hear his turbo spinning after the car is turned off.

I think we need some dyno figures to work out the best option.

I am getting lost....

Andy, can you confirm that the OE turbo is BB? Maybe when you get the one from Japan??

If so, why is Danwatt's and Jet's BB highflow shorter?

My highflow is very nice, the cost was $1100 + install.

Boost is the same as OE (0.8bar @ 3200rpm), but it now boosts to 1bar and ~3800rpm and holds it to redline (literally).

Don't know if it is BB or Bush, what internals were used etc etc... the workshop that installed it has "lost" the invoice which the turbo repairer needs to check their records.

(Really starting to piss me off).

Can't hear my turbo spinning when the car is shut off (but I do a cool down before shutting it off, so maybe that is why).

Will see what it can do when I get the eManage installed (probably around the same time as Jet gets his Haltech in).

[zei20l]

Andy, can you confirm that the OE turbo is BB? Maybe when you get the one from Japan??

If so, why is Danwatt's and Jet's BB highflow shorter?

My highflow is very nice, the cost was $1100 + install.

Boost is the same as OE (0.8bar @ 3200rpm), but it now boosts to 1bar and ~3800rpm and holds it to redline (literally).

Don't know if it is BB or Bush, what internals were used etc etc... the workshop that installed it has "lost" the invoice which the turbo repairer needs to check their records.

(Really starting to piss me off).

Can't hear my turbo spinning when the car is shut off (but I do a cool down before shutting it off, so maybe that is why).

Will see what it can do when I get the eManage installed (probably around the same time as Jet gets his Haltech in).

nah youd be able to hear it spool down even when you idle it down. the turbo is still spinning at idle.

[andy65b]

Ok, I have been informed that I have made an error in judgement....... Damnnnnnnnn (I wish they were wrong)

$650 - stock rebuild (bushed)

$1250 - High flow (bushed)

or go the duck nuts the way Craig went.

Doh.

Edited June 12, 2009 by andy65b

[Bis-e Bee]

<<-- more information copied from email - disregard the bit about the RB25DET, but atleast they have serviced these turbo's before -->>

What brand are the internals that will be put inside the turbo?

We use genuine Garrett parts apart from the ball bearings, which are our own design.

Do you think the output will be similiar to the output of a rebuild with a Garrett ball bearing core?

It depends what core the customer specifies, but the high flow will produce the same power up to the GT3071R range of cores.

Do you have any power figures or estimate of powergain from having your style of rebuild performed?

We have seen up to 250-260rwkw on RB25det with supporting modifications (ecu/injectors/fuel pump/FMIC etc etc)

What type of warranty is given on the new rebuilt turbo?

12 Months

I have also tracked down a picture of the Nissan Stagea OEM turbo, you may know of the turbo but I believe it's not all that common?

I have seen a few of these, we have high flowed these units before. Regards,

Michael Ramsay

Internal Sales

PO Box 251 Condell Park NSW AUSTRALIA 2200 Free Call - 1300 TURBOS Ph +61 02 9708 2122 Fax +61 02 9708 2912 www.gcg.com.au

<<-- end of message -->>

Craig, do you know what Garrett Ball Bearing Core was put in yours?

[Jetwreck]

[/b]Do you think the output will be similiar to the output of a rebuild with a Garrett ball bearing core?

It depends what core the customer specifies, but the high flow will produce the same power up to the GT3071R range of cores.

Craig, do you know what Garrett Ball Bearing Core was put in yours?

Pretty sure that the GT3071 setup is the same a Danwatt and myself. I used the 550hp Garrett BB's.

[Bis-e Bee]

You may doubt and you will be wrong.

The ball bearing rebuild is a lot more complicated as the case has to be ground to adapt to the bearing they use.

I have discussed this at length with Craig as I will be going down the $650 high flow path.

Cheers

Andy

ONLY if you use a Garrett Ball Bearing Core, that is why the housing had to be machined out and ended up shorter.

With GCG they use all Garrett internals except for the ball bearings, which are a GCG make and allow the factory bearing housing to be left as is.

Andy, can you confirm that the OE turbo is BB? Maybe when you get the one from Japan??

Michael from GCG advised that the factory Garrett turbo was Ball Bearing and not Bush Bearing, Andy can take pics and confirm when his package arrives

Pretty sure that the GT3071 setup is the same a Danwatt and myself. I used the 550hp Garrett BB's.

Cool, so the GCG high-flow rebuild *should* be putting out similiar levels of power, interesting stuff. I know it's not your thing Craig but I might need to investigate this further I thinks

[pixel8r]

Hmmm, not to judge what anyone else has done, but if my turbo dies I will be going for something as close to the stock turbo as possible.

I got a GT3071R (? i think - it was a GT30 anyway) installed on my last stagea and whilst it did spool up nice and strong etc, and performed very well, it simply started spooling too late in the revs due to the larger size. I switched the turbo while I still had the stock exhaust and it was painful (as expected). I then got a 3" turbo-back exhaust fitted and that really opened it up, but then it needed tuning. Once I got the SAFC put on and tuned, it was doing much better. But to cut a long story short, it started to boost up around 2500rpm which for me is way too high.

Others may find this acceptable, and I put up with it for a while, because after about 2800rpm it started to pull real hard and by 3800rpm it was hitting max boost. Driving around normally though, the revs tend to sit between 1800 and 2500rpm which meant I was basically driving a non-turbo car which just sucked. I know I could've improved it with better tuning but it all just meant pouring more money into a car that would'nt have needed it if I'd just gone with a smaller turbo upfront.

I'd just much rather have a car that was responsive at low revs than a car that pulled 6G's at 5000rpm.

I believe for a road car - that 500rpm difference in spool up is critical, because its exactly the difference between a car thats got get-up and one that feels sluggish to get anywhere.

The M35 is spooling nicely even as low as 2000rpm. If I was to replace the turbo or just the internals I'd try to keep that the same. Maybe with a better boost controller I could improve the spoolup time too - that'd be great.

These cars rely on the turbo for the torque to overcome the weight, so the sooner you can be on boost the better. On hot days, the problem gets even worse, especially if you use air-con as well.

Just some fuel for thought I guess, another perspective. I went down the modification road with my last stagea, and it was fun, but my M35 is not going down that path. I want to keep it fairly stock, mainly to save money, but also since it will be a family wagon and personally I think that limits the practicality of any performance mods. The wife and baby just wouldn't be impressed. spoilsports I know...

btw, the stock turbo on all skylines and stageas is BB. People may complain about the ceramic since it is prone to shattering around 14psi, but it is there to reduce weight....and for that it works well. I know with the RB's when everything was left stock, the turbo should last a long time (but there are always exceptions).

[iamhe77]

Boost is the same as OE (0.8bar @ 3200rpm), but it now boosts to 1bar and ~3800rpm and holds it to redline (literally).

Don't know if it is BB or Bush, what internals were used etc etc...

Can't hear my turbo spinning when the car is shut off (but I do a cool down before shutting it off, so maybe that is why).

Seems mine IS a BB. Still trying to sus out the internals though.

Have been talking to to actual repairer, so that eases my mind.

Dunno if I can hear the turbo when shutting off - if I can, the noise is very quick.

I did test under 3/4 throttle on high boost up a hill then quickly lifted off the throttle and got a winding-down whistling sound

My apologies to Stephen for the misleading info. It was given based on what the workshop that installed it told me

[iamhe77]

I'd just much rather have a car that was responsive at low revs than a car that pulled 6G's at 5000rpm.

I believe for a road car - that 500rpm difference in spool up is critical, because its exactly the difference between a car thats got get-up and one that feels sluggish to get anywhere.

The M35 is spooling nicely even as low as 2000rpm. If I was to replace the turbo or just the internals I'd try to keep that the same. Maybe with a better boost controller I could improve the spoolup time too - that'd be great.

These cars rely on the turbo for the torque to overcome the weight, so the sooner you can be on boost the better. On hot days, the problem gets even worse, especially if you use air-con as well.

Could not agree more with what you have said.

That is why I am trying so hard to find out what was used in my high flow.

Mine behaves the same as the OE up until ~3500rpm then hits full boost ~3800-3900rpm and holds it to redline using the standard RS tune (for now). - think of the way the OE turbo spools from 2500-3200. Mine does this again from 3200-3900.

I doubt it will have the all-out power of Jet's, but I certainly I can't complain about the response.

[Bis-e Bee]

Seems mine IS a BB. Still trying to sus out the internals though.

Have been talking to to actual repairer, so that eases my mind.

Dunno if I can hear the turbo when shutting off - if I can, the noise is very quick.

I did test under 3/4 throttle on high boost up a hill then quickly lifted off the throttle and got a winding-down whistling sound

My apologies to Stephen for the misleading info. It was given based on what the workshop that installed it told me

No need to apologise Cam, you didn't know all the details and the workshop really hadn't told you much

It is sounding more and more like the bush bearing way is ok but the ball bearing option is the way to go. As GCG said if I went to bush bearing high-flow it would be a step backwards as such, this just confirms I'm defiantly going ball bearing

[pixel8r]

No need to apologise Cam, you didn't know all the details and the workshop really hadn't told you much

It is sounding more and more like the bush bearing way is ok but the ball bearing option is the way to go. As GCG said if I went to bush bearing high-flow it would be a step backwards as such, this just confirms I'm defiantly going ball bearing

Speak to Tangles (on here) about the bush bearing option. He had one on his s1 stagea (from Sliding Performance) for quite some time. I believe he has now upgraded the turbo once again, but if I'm not mistaken the bush bearing one was happily running 18psi and made over 200awkw. He may be able to offer some insight, and possibly a comparison if his latest turbo is BB.

[KiwiRS4T]

Almost $2000 for a GCG highflow compared to a new one? A GCG highflow is effectively a new turbo except that there are no extra installation costs, mounts or lines to be made up. I am very happy with the GCG highflow in my S1 and it boosts early and quickly. It is rated by GCG at 450hp. I am not there yet, currently around 360hp (200AWKW) - still to install 550 injectors and a Z32 afm and then up the boost to 16psi.

Despite GCG's comments about sliding performance's bush bearing turbo there is a reputable local (NZ) workshop that does bush bearing highflows for about $1200 which make good power althougth I believe they start boosting a little higher in the rev range and may not last as long unless very carefully looked after (warmed down slowly as well as having a turbo timer).

[Bis-e Bee]

Speak to Tangles (on here) about the bush bearing option. He had one on his s1 stagea (from Sliding Performance) for quite some time. I believe he has now upgraded the turbo once again, but if I'm not mistaken the bush bearing one was happily running 18psi and made over 200awkw. He may be able to offer some insight, and possibly a comparison if his latest turbo is BB.

I have no desire to go from a standard ball bearing to a high flow bush bearing, that to me is a step backwards as such. I'll stick with the ball bearing, thanks anyway

Almost $2000 for a GCG highflow compared to a new one? A GCG highflow is effectively a new turbo except that there are no extra installation costs, mounts or lines to be made up. I am very happy with the GCG highflow in my S1 and it boosts early and quickly. It is rated by GCG at 450hp. I am not there yet, currently around 360hp (200AWKW) - still to install 550 injectors and a Z32 afm and then up the boost to 16psi.

Despite GCG's comments about sliding performance's bush bearing turbo there is a reputable local (NZ) workshop that does bush bearing highflows for about $1200 which make good power althougth I believe they start boosting a little higher in the rev range and may not last as long unless very carefully looked after (warmed down slowly as well as having a turbo timer).

Thanks Kiwi You've just confirmed for me this is the way I want to proceed when I get my tax cheque Bring on 30 june yeeeehahhhh.

[Bis-e Bee]

Almost $2000 for a GCG highflow compared to a new one? A GCG highflow is effectively a new turbo except that there are no extra installation costs, mounts or lines to be made up. I am very happy with the GCG highflow in my S1 and it boosts early and quickly. It is rated by GCG at 450hp. I am not there yet, currently around 360hp (200AWKW) - still to install 550 injectors and a Z32 afm and then up the boost to 16psi.

I should've asked, was your high-flow rebuild done with Garrett internals and GCG ball bearings?