How To Drive The R35 Around A Circuit

[LSX-438]

Hey guys

I'm after some driving tips from GTR officionados....

I'm not the most naturally talented driver (far from it) and quite frankly i am used to driving around a severely overpowered RWD V8 coupe on the circuit. I now (attempt to) pilot an R35. It's a cracker car of course, but I think i'm leaving time on the table, underdriving the car. The problem? i need to condition myself to trust the magic of AWD, especially the R35 [i think]....

Now in reviewing this footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smxFKOlF_tk

One thing i've noticed; he's doing a kind of action where he initially jerks the steering wheel into a turn, then instantly corrects and drives through the turn. He seems to do this on about 50% of the turns. I've been led to believe the R35 (with its rear wheel bias) only intervenes where it REALLY needs to. Could this guy be inducing ESP to kick in and then using it to pull him faster through the turns, or am i imagining it?

To be frank i've only seen the traction control light come on maybe 2 or 3 times on the circuit myself.

Anyway, i'm interested in your thoughts & experience on driving the R35 (or any GTR really) and how you developed a technique to gain the most from the car?

[Gibbo_R35]

Hey guys

I'm after some driving tips from GTR officionados....

I'm not the most naturally talented driver (far from it) and quite frankly i am used to driving around a severely overpowered RWD V8 coupe on the circuit. I now (attempt to) pilot an R35. It's a cracker car of course, but I think i'm leaving time on the table, underdriving the car. The problem? i need to condition myself to trust the magic of AWD, especially the R35 [i think]....

Now in reviewing this footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smxFKOlF_tk

One thing i've noticed; he's doing a kind of action where he initially jerks the steering wheel into a turn, then instantly corrects and drives through the turn. He seems to do this on about 50% of the turns. I've been led to believe the R35 (with its rear wheel bias) only intervenes where it REALLY needs to. Could this guy be inducing ESP to kick in and then using it to pull him faster through the turns, or am i imagining it?

To be frank i've only seen the traction control light come on maybe 2 or 3 times on the circuit myself.

Anyway, i'm interested in your thoughts & experience on driving the R35 (or any GTR really) and how you developed a technique to gain the most from the car?

What settings are you using...RRR?

Which track are you trying to get the most out of.

Cheers

Edited June 13, 2009 by Gibbo_R35

[LSX-438]

What settings are you using...RRR?

Which track are you trying to get the most out of.

Cheers

Gibbo,

thus far been using RRR exclusively. Not sure if that's good or bad to be frank.

Eastern Creek, Wakefield and Oran Park.

very happy witht he car thus far, but i think i am still driving it like it's a RWD V8.

[Gibbo_R35]

I agree to an extent, at the creek I am finding that I still get a lot of exit drift from the rear of the car, especially at turn 3 at the Creek. I am with you on this one, however I want to know what a good time is at the creek in this car?

I have heard some people say that this car should be good for a high 1:30 in street spec. I wish we could get a race driver or similar to get a hot lap in this car, I might get one of the race instructors to do a flying lap to set a bench mark for us. I think Luffy is attending my next track day....could be a good opportunity.

Will let you know.

Cheers,

[LSX-438]

I agree to an extent, at the creek I am finding that I still get a lot of exit drift from the rear of the car, especially at turn 3 at the Creek. I am with you on this one, however I want to know what a good time is at the creek in this car?

I have heard some people say that this car should be good for a high 1:30 in street spec. I wish we could get a race driver or similar to get a hot lap in this car, I might get one of the race instructors to do a flying lap to set a bench mark for us. I think Luffy is attending my next track day....could be a good opportunity.

Will let you know.

Cheers,

Would be great to get a pro to set a benchmark. I was watching a GT2 lap around there doing 42's - it looked fast.

[Col-GTSX]

You notice he only really jerks the wheel when he has come out of an opposite turn.

ie. a left and straight into a right...

I would have thought the jerk on the wheel in this situation is to shift the balance of the weight so it does not slide in to the opposite lock...

ie. prevent a harder turn of the wheel to make the corner, as you know less friction on the tyres would certainly make a few seconds around a track as long at the ring...

make sence???

if not keep reading...

ok so you have a set of corners shaped like an S, so a left then into a right...

So you go through this S with pace, you enter the first turn left smooth as you exit the turn your about to go into a right. However the body weight is still leaning right and you now need the body to lean left (change the balance point). You can either give the wheel a twitch/jerk and set the balance in the opposite direction pre corner allowing you a far less aggressive angle and hence create less tyre friction... Or you can go at the corner with the cars weight still leaning right and wrench the wheel right to make the corner...

Im getting into symantic's details here, but drifting is a good example of weight shift left to right to get the car into a drift without using the hand brake or massive power...

So drifting is about freestyling its about holding a balance point beyond normal practice... Timed events is the opposite, but both are using the same factor to acheive the outcome required...

Lap times are faster with less aggressive cornering, smooth lines, weight distribution and the balance point of the centre of gravity... But most of all, good lap times are about trying to capture every bit of energy and apply that to forwards motion... Any loss of energy is a loss in time, and tyres bleed the least energy in a straight line... So what im trying to say is you want to keep the tyres as straight as possible for as long as possible... This is not only good for creating less friction but its easier on the wallet at theend of a big track session...

does this make sence now???

[targa]

You notice he only really jerks the wheel when he has come out of an opposite turn.

ie. a left and straight into a right...

I would have thought the jerk on the wheel in this situation is to shift the balance of the weight so it does not slide in to the opposite lock...

ie. prevent a harder turn of the wheel to make the corner, as you know less friction on the tyres would certainly make a few seconds around a track as long at the ring...

make sence???

if not keep reading...

ok so you have a set of corners shaped like an S, so a left then into a right...

So you go through this S with pace, you enter the first turn left smooth as you exit the turn your about to go into a right. However the body weight is still leaning right and you now need the body to lean left (change the balance point). You can either give the wheel a twitch/jerk and set the balance in the opposite direction pre corner allowing you a far less aggressive angle and hence create less tyre friction... Or you can go at the corner with the cars weight still leaning right and wrench the wheel right to make the corner...

Im getting into symantic's details here, but drifting is a good example of weight shift left to right to get the car into a drift without using the hand brake or massive power...

So drifting is about freestyling its about holding a balance point beyond normal practice... Timed events is the opposite, but both are using the same factor to acheive the outcome required...

Lap times are faster with less aggressive cornering, smooth lines, weight distribution and the balance point of the centre of gravity... But most of all, good lap times are about trying to capture every bit of energy and apply that to forwards motion... Any loss of energy is a loss in time, and tyres bleed the least energy in a straight line... So what im trying to say is you want to keep the tyres as straight as possible for as long as possible... This is not only good for creating less friction but its easier on the wallet at theend of a big track session...

does this make sence now???

Best advice I've read in years

[Col-GTSX]

Thanks Jeff...

PS> We met in 2004 at Targa, I pay close attention to all the GTR's on the scene every year...

I was supporting/mech for a '+8 Morgan' in 2003 and a '2002 BMW' in 2004, 2005 & 2006...

[GTR-N1]

This makes damn good sense Col

[targa]

Thanks Jeff...

PS> We met in 2004 at Targa, I pay close attention to all the GTR's on the scene every year...

I was supporting/mech for a '+8 Morgan' in 2003 and a '2002 BMW' in 2004, 2005 & 2006...

Make sure you come and say hi next time

You might be able to give me some driving tips that I could use in Targa

I need all the help I can get

[Gibbo_R35]

I have another track day next Wednesday at the Creek (24th). There will be another 2 R35's there. I have organised one of the instructors (Professional V8 Supercar Driver) to do a couple of hot laps, I will tape the footage and try to get a Performance Box or similar for the day to then do a complete overlay.

This should be a good base to start from...or to aspire to.

Cheers

[LSX-438]

I have another track day next Wednesday at the Creek (24th). There will be another 2 R35's there. I have organised one of the instructors (Professional V8 Supercar Driver) to do a couple of hot laps, I will tape the footage and try to get a Performance Box or similar for the day to then do a complete overlay.

This should be a good base to start from...or to aspire to.

Cheers

Awesome. I can bring a performance box out there if you like.

[Col-GTSX]

Make sure you come and say hi next time

You might be able to give me some driving tips that I could use in Targa

I need all the help I can get

Targa got too expensive to do every year so I had to hang up the boots in 2006...

But yeah if your ever up this way for a Noosa hill climb or a Mount Cootha classic let us know...

I have organised one of the instructors (Professional V8 Supercar Driver) to do a couple of hot laps, I will tape the footage and try to get a Performance Box or similar for the day to then do a complete overlay.

That sounds good... Will be interesting to see what the outcome is...

[Beer Baron]

on benchmarks I honestly can't see a stockish 35 on good tyres doing a high 30 at eastern creek. I reckon low to mid 40s is where it'll be at for this one till you go pretty hard core on mods to make it fast. I think a 44-45 for an ammatuer driver (like most of us!) is good. for a pro maybe a 42 or 43. still crazy fast for a big heavy standard road car!

[Gibbo_R35]

I have just had the camber done 1.5mm front and 1mm rear. This is the first alteration from last months track day. 146.8 was my record last month...lets see what the camber does.

Also I have a set of the Dunlops going on next, will then do another test, same camber etc.

[LSX-438]

I have just had the camber done 1.5mm front and 1mm rear. This is the first alteration from last months track day. 146.8 was my record last month...lets see what the camber does.

Also I have a set of the Dunlops going on next, will then do another test, same camber etc.

How did you go? Did you end up getting that pro driver to have a blat?

Btw my R35 is sitting in the garage now, with about 2.8* of neg camber (after some nifty mods, offset bushes, details later!)

[Gibbo_R35]

How did you go? Did you end up getting that pro driver to have a blat?

Btw my R35 is sitting in the garage now, with about 2.8* of neg camber (after some nifty mods, offset bushes, details later!)

Day was a bit ordinary, rained for the first 4 hours, then the sun came out. No chance for any completely dry runs, as such the effort was abandoned ...till next time.

Let me know how the camber mod goes, 1.5 was no where near enough.

[AbruptlyVividViolet]

Interesting tips guys, a newb like me could learn a thing or 2

[sewid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smxFKOlF_tk

One thing i've noticed; he's doing a kind of action where he initially jerks the steering wheel into a turn, then instantly corrects and drives through the turn. He seems to do this on about 50% of the turns. I've been led to believe the R35 (with its rear wheel bias) only intervenes where it REALLY needs to. Could this guy be inducing ESP to kick in and then using it to pull him faster through the turns, or am i imagining it?

To be frank i've only seen the traction control light come on maybe 2 or 3 times on the circuit myself.

Anyway, i'm interested in your thoughts & experience on driving the R35 (or any GTR really) and how you developed a technique to gain the most from the car?

I got a ride with one of the Nissan GT-R test drivers (not Suzuki-san but a colleague of his, Shishikura-san) at the Tochigi test track in Japan and he was quite literally violent with the car in the corners. Much like in the video.

Interesting theory.

[Beer Baron]

also, one other thing. try it in R/R/off. I prefer'd it like that. not sure if it's faster or not but a little bit of tail out (little bit!) doesn't always hurt.