Ignition System Rb26 650+wheel Hp

[den001]

thanks for the heads up... i mite go for a cdi system. m&w 6 channel as the motec ones are about 1900 just for the unit..

[The Dan]

We run splitfires and a HKS twin power on the GTR. It makes 620hp at the wheels. Never had spark issues.

[GTRNUR]

I used 3 channels from an MSD DIS4 to fire 3 twin output coils in a waste spark configuraiton on my first skyline. Apart from being a powerful ignition system that would throw sparks a good 3 inches plus it also had a few extra features that were handy.

The main one was the 2 step rev limitor. I used that feature combined with an AUX on my ecu to trigger an ignition retard, base fuel map alteration and boost control. Instant programmable launch control. I could set any launch RPM in 250 RPM with any boost setting. If your building a drag car you want this. Combined with an auto with a trans brake I think it would be a great way to setup a car for straight line work.

[DCIEVE]

Spot on Shane...

Sell the shit and buy the real stuff.

fully wired two of these complete set-ups in drag cars while in QLD.

1 x Vi-PEC V88 ecu

2 x M&W drag 6 igniters

6 x M&W coils

one car runs 18 1600cc injectors drinking methanol and ran a 6.71 @ 209 MPH....no hint of a missfire from fireup to shutdown. The car in question had massive missfire issues before i did this instal. Idles like a baby and screams at full noise like a banshee.

Can do a deal on this stuff if you get me to do the instal...a lot of the guys at the Winternationals commented on the quality of the wiring job.

The above set-up is a bit OTT for 650hp....my engine makes around 1000hp and i use splitfires and the hks box with std igniter. I use a Vi-PEC V88 direct fire ecu though...bit better than the MoTeC.

[WHITER33GTS-T]

Would this setup run of Haltech E11v2..?

why cut corners on ignition when uve obviously spent an absolute motsa on an ecu and probably everything else in the car.

personally id go m&w cdi, m&w coils & magnacore leads. last time i spoke to m&w total in parts was $2350, that included an installation kit, pro 16 cdi (youd prolly have to use a different cdi seeing u cant use direct fire) 6 coils, and 6 custom made leads (leads made by magnacore which m&w recommend)

also, why did u chose an ecu that doesnt use direct fire ignition?

[Tomek]

I'll be using HKS twin sparks & jjr coil packs on mine.. 600hp

[shanef]

Would this setup run of Haltech E11v2..?

certainly will

[T88 ON BOARD]

I could be wrong but i think rh9 uses a motec m800 + Motec CDI + splitfire coils and is making huge power.

So i guess Splitfire coils are good enough if they have something like the CDI or a HKS twin spark unit feeding em..

Since your trying to keep costs down How about using the hks unit + splitfire's or try even the splitfire coils alone ???

[DCIEVE]

cdi will run standard coils no problems.

[dazmo]

My car runs splitfire coils with the standard igniter without an issue and is making around the 600 AWHP (dyno proven 560 AWHP @7100 rpm with a bit more tuning done on the street hence no dyno sheet max rpm at the moment 8500) see details of the car in my build thread in the motorsport section. Why spend cash on a CDI system if it is not 100% neccessary. Go with the stnd igniter and some coils to begin with and get the CDI only if you find that you are having issues with spark.

[Swiper the Fox]

My car runs splitfire coils with the standard igniter without an issue and is making around the 600 AWHP (dyno proven 560 AWHP @7100 rpm with a bit more tuning done on the street hence no dyno sheet max rpm at the moment 8500) see details of the car in my build thread in the motorsport section. Why spend cash on a CDI system if it is not 100% neccessary. Go with the stnd igniter and some coils to begin with and get the CDI only if you find that you are having issues with spark.

we use the following on our circuit GTR...standard igniter, splitfires and $3 copper plugs.

it works.

[den001]

ive gone m&w cdi direct fire, motec mecury cdi coils. Its actually cheaper than going twin spark and splitfires.

[The Alchemist]

I run 360kw on 19psi. I use splitfire coils, $3.00 NGK plugs gapped to 0.86, standard ignitor, PFC dwell set correctly using as amps clamp (about 1.9 to 2ms)and most importantly a rewired ignition 12V feed!!!!!!!

Using a high speed scope we found a 2V drop at the coil 12V feed everytime it fired. Tracing the 12V feed back through the 15year old wiring loom saw a gradual reduction from the ignition fuse through to the coils. Remember it travels from the fuse box across the engine bay into the cabin to the ignition relay then back out into the engine bay to the coil power feed.

Getting a good nissan ignition relay, putting it in a spare bay in the fuse box and looping a power feed off the bottom of the ignition fuse power supply and using the factory 12V power feed to trigger the new coil saw a big improvement !!!

Cheaper than a HKS box that is often only making up xtra charging current for voltage drops from old worn out wiring.

I had previously tried the twin power box to try to fix a misfire I had at 6200rpm during dyno tuning. Testing with a scope using an amps clamp and secondary ignition and charging voltage showed that:

all the HKS module did was to slightly increase the charging amps by about 0.4 to 0.5amps, so up to about 6.8amps or so. The charging time remained the same (controlled by dwell in the PFC, the spark duration (measured with the scope) stayed the same, about 1.2 ms, the coil charge voltage remained the same with the same 2V drop when it fired and the engine STILL missed at 6200rpm!!!!

Rewiring the 12V supply to the coil via a new relay with or without the HKS module connected fixed the miss at 6200rpm > we tested it both ways on the dyno. The scope showed the same increase in charging current of about 0.4amps with the 12V feed rewire and we ended up leaving it connected as I owned the damn thing now so I may as well leave it on. This weekend (2 years later) the twin power module died randomly stalling the car in the middle of the road. The smoke was out!!! I disconnected it from the engine harness and have been busy pulling it apart so see whats in it As you do......

Interestingly enough the engine made EXACTLY the same power on the dyno with the HKS module connected or not. Believe it or not

Will post some pics later.

Mike

Edited June 14, 2010 by The Alchemist

[blur]

I run a HKS twin spark and splitfire coils, T04Z on high boost e85 making about 650hp at the wheels, no problems. But I can see what the Alchemist is saying though, its the same as with the fuel pumps, if theres voltage drops, nothing will happen as it should. I will be checking my power supply carefully as a precaution before the next track day.

[XRATED]

I run 360kw on 19psi. I use splitfire coils, $3.00 NGK plugs gapped to 0.86, standard ignitor, PFC dwell set correctly using as amps clamp (about 1.9 to 2ms)and most importantly a rewired ignition 12V feed!!!!!!!

Using a high speed scope we found a 2V drop at the coil 12V feed everytime it fired. Tracing the 12V feed back through the 15year old wiring loom saw a gradual reduction from the ignition fuse through to the coils. Remember it travels from the fuse box across the engine bay into the cabin to the ignition relay then back out into the engine bay to the coil power feed.

Getting a good nissan ignition relay, putting it in a spare bay in the fuse box and looping a power feed off the bottom of the ignition fuse power supply and using the factory 12V power feed to trigger the new coil saw a big improvement !!!

Cheaper than a HKS box that is often only making up xtra charging current for voltage drops from old worn out wiring.

I had previously tried the twin power box to try to fix a misfire I had at 6200rpm during dyno tuning. Testing with a scope using an amps clamp and secondary ignition and charging voltage showed that:

all the HKS module did was to slightly increase the charging amps by about 0.4 to 0.5amps, so up to about 6.8amps or so. The charging time remained the same (controlled by dwell in the PFC, the spark duration (measured with the scope) stayed the same, about 1.2 ms, the coil charge voltage remained the same with the same 2V drop when it fired and the engine STILL missed at 6200rpm!!!!

Rewiring the 12V supply to the coil via a new relay with or without the HKS module connected fixed the miss at 6200rpm > we tested it both ways on the dyno. The scope showed the same increase in charging current of about 0.4amps with the 12V feed rewire and we ended up leaving it connected as I owned the damn thing now so I may as well leave it on. This weekend (2 years later) the twin power module died randomly stalling the car in the middle of the road. The smoke was out!!! I disconnected it from the engine harness and have been busy pulling it apart so see whats in it As you do......

Interestingly enough the engine made EXACTLY the same power on the dyno with the HKS module connected or not. Believe it or not

Will post some pics later.

Mike

Nice R&D....

great mod... simple and effective- cheap too ha ha ha.

[s2d4]

Anyone tried the okada projects set up? They suggested that it increases the current by 4x?

[Guilt-Toy]

why not try the LS2 coils, those things have internal ignitor and are supposed to pack a very big punch of a spark.

[NismoSTune]

I must be crazy then... I run Okada direct coils and NGK plugs on my car. No need to an HKS box or the oem ignitor with these bad boys. R32 gtr 200whp... per litre. The +$1200 price tag is the scary part..

Edited June 17, 2010 by NismoSTune

[N1GTR]

455rwkw, NGK plugs, new coilpack loom (old one was hard and scabby looking), splitfires.

No misfiring yet. Soon it will be pushed harder so it will be interesting to see exactly when the HKS box turns into a "need" from a "want"

[rockvale]

So many times I read threads on SAU about additions to the OEM RB26 ignition system, yet no one has completely or conclusively understood the capabilities of the std ignition system, I have made 500kw at all 4 tyres with std ignition at 0.024". Yes I have also fitted a HKS DLI which by the way does not increase you max secondary ignition voltage, it increases the current, and the engine does run a cleaner spark plug

So the question that needs to be answered is why can some Rb26 run extreme power levels and others can not with the std ignition?

Simply because the ignition is breaking down, but where, so following test will identify your ignition problem.

1, Firstly you will need 6 x brand new plugs gapped to 0.6mm, 6 x sachets of high temp dielectric silicone greese (jaycar sells it) an aluminium sheet about 800 x 400 x thickness does matter, but say 1,0mm, you will need to drill a 9mm hole in the top left hand corner of the shortest side

2. Ensure ignition is OFF, Remove ignition coil loom from coils, remove coils from engine, eg 2 off x 3 coils in Al coil mounting brks, remove std ignitor from engine cover, remove old spark plugs, liberally apply dielectric silicone greese to the top and insulation of each new plug and install into engine

3. Remove 6 x injector connectors,

4. Remove crank angle sensor clip, ensure you witness mark around the washers of the 3 x crank angle bolts before you loosen and remove crank angle sensor from the motor, connect the crank angle sensor back onto the crank angle and rest it in a safe place loosely

5. Plug ecu & coil looms back into ignitor (which has been removed from engine cover), find 1 x small nut for ignitor bolt so that you can attach the std ecu ignitor earth onto the ignitor in std position

6. Place the Al sheet directly on top of the engine with longest edges running front to back, with the 9mm hole at the back on the drivers side

7. Place sideways down the 2 off 3 x coil packs on the Al sheet in simular position as if they were fitted to the engine

8. Find a 8mm nut and use 1 x 8mm Al coil mounting bolt to securely bolt the engine ignition coil loom earth to the Al sheet using the 9mm hole that you drilled (this earth normally attaches at the back on the head under the ignitor)

9. Now connect the ignition coil loom to all 6 x ignition coils

10, Install 6 x old spark plugs to ignition coil boots, and space up coils with steel or Al, so that all spark plug threads are touching Al sheet

11. Connect 1 x start jumper lead from neg battery terminal and connect to Al sheet

12. Turn ignition ON

13, Ensure you are well clear of the spark plugs, spin the crank angle sensor by hand to stimulate the ignition to operate (spinning crank angle sensor in the wrong direction will not operate the ignition, it must be spun in the alternate direction)

14, Testing the ignition system can occur by ensuring the Al coil mounting brkt is in contact with the Al sheet whilst you increase the distance of the spark plug thread from the Al sheet, this should be done in limited illumination to see the arc bridging, if, and where it is occuring

A good std ignition system will ionise approx 25mm air gap between spark plug thread and the Al sheet, if the gap is increased further until the coils can not fire down onto the Al sheet, the 2 off x Al coil brkts with there 3 off x coils each will only " jump" on Al sheet with no arc bridging - Ignition System Test Complete and PASS

But generally ignition misfires are caused by bridge arcing across between the top of the spark plug silicone boot connection point on coil to the ferritic iron core coil mounting plate (its on the coil with the 4 holes in it) Eg From the top of the silicon boot, across the coils body to the coils mounting frame.

Once the coils that are bridge arcing have been identified, you must remove the spark plugs and the silicon boots from these coils and retest to ensure that the coil spark initiates from the coils high tension terminal and not from a crack or pin hole in the coils housing, if this is the case it is in the bin and buy a new coil, but if it is not, what you need to do now is remove all the bridge arcing coils from there mounting positions, get a sharp stanley knife and a very good light source to closely examine the coil body silicon boot connection point for carbon tracking(some form of magnification will help with this task), and use the blade to scrap away until the carbon tracking, when done clean all 6 x coils with electrical spray solvent, all 6 x silicon spark plug boots are to be wash with soap and a "clean engine oil gallery brush"(suitable size one of coarse and scrub the silicon boots clean ) and finish with electrical spray solvent

Apply liberally the dielectric silicon grease to all the coil silicon boot connection points and to the top of all the silicon boots and connect the silicon boots back onto the 6 x coils and retest as above,

In closing

All RB26 coils (even New one's) should use High Temp dielectric silicon grease on the coil/silicon boot connection point

New Nissan OEM coils are the best

Always wash, clean, liberally apply silicon grease to silicon boots when changing new spark plugs

Always apply dielectric grease to the top of the plug and insulator on new plugs

Ensure the ignition coil loom earth is in good condition and firmly connected

Ensure all 6 x ignition coil + positives are getting battery voltage (consider dedicated ignition relay direct battery feed)

Ensure main earth battery lead that goes to engine block which also connects to the car body half way along is connected and that the body earth is clean, and tight.

ALL THE ABOVE AT YOUR OWN RISK