Take A Pick

[Max_ST-R]

So max when do you get your R35, because honestly nothing a maxima owner says means anything....

yeah, cheers mate, just drop me a line when you take delivery of your R35.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Max_ST-R

[bigslick]

*Max vs Birds*

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

lols

Edited July 13, 2009 by bigslick

[Max_ST-R]

he he he ^^^^^^^ No fighting here! Have a quick look, no personal insults from me!, just my opinion. I think the fact I owned a GMH Commodores for 11 years might have taken the wind out of Birds sail tho!

[Birds]

Birds, I don't know why you get so defensive about GMH, or defensive full stop, you seem to be taking this personally!!! (????) but to completely shatter your theory, my FIRST car I bought in 1996 (at 23 years of age) was a BRAND NEW VS Series II Holden Commodore Executive!!. It was Rubens Mica in colour and my wife and i owned it for 11 years. It had window tint, gold plated 'Lion badges' front and rear and it I kept it immaculate. It had 136,000kms when I sold it on December 27, 2007.

Considering it was always garaged and serviced every 5,000 kms I thought I had a disproportionate number of quality and reliability issues. Fortunately, parts were cheap and more often than not my dad and I could replace them ourselves. It was finances that stopped me from changing it earlier..plus getting married, building a house and having children takes priority.

when I worked at a Toyota dealer for 3 years (after 3 years at a Ford dealer) this REALLY opened my eyes to Japanese levels of quality and reliability and I actually regretted not buying a Mazda or Nissan or Toyota or Subaru at the time. By comparison my A33 Maxima's have been a revelation compare to my Commodore, just chalk and cheese. For example, i have never had a clean garage floor before! refinement and quality are on a different level too.

As for your Coupe 60,I think that whole front bumper/spoiler assembly would be HAVE to toned downed considerably. Any car with 22 " wheels which sat that low would drive to it's own detriment if modified as such. I actually think a VE coupe would look quite smart, but I don't think a production version will pack anywhere near the drama of the concept or indeed an R35 GT-R. and I think that's a fair comment.

As for modified European, yes, I know there are kits out there, but I reckon you could count on one hand the number of after market supercharged Z4 in Oz. It's nothing compare to the indusrty behind modified Folden/Ford or Jap car scene. Also you might want to go the the Mercedes site and you will see an E63 AMG or previous E55 AMG not only adds a super charger or engne displacement over an E500 but quite a number of equipment differentiation (unlike the W427 to the GTS)

As for Motorshow buzz kill I have worked at more than 20 of them about 13 in Melbourne and 9 of them in Sydney, 6 as a sales assistant the rest in my current role. I have attended 18 industry/media days so I guess I have become a bit blase about concept cars and the like. Like I said, when I see a Commodore Coupe production model, I will really take some interest. I was at the unveiling of the W427 and the Coupe 60. I thought the W427 looked horrible in that Walkinshaw silver(with red interior!) and the coupe 60 looked too 'concept', I was actually quite disappointed Holden didn't have a more production ready VE Commodore Coupe.

Nope, theory still stands. I thought you sounded like someone who had been bitten by a lemon. Will you be buying another Holden? Nope. Like I said, until I see a Holden in your garage I won't believe this unbiased crap. And the difference in quality between the Holdens/Fords of today and over a decade ago is massive. I agree there was a significant gap in quality that long ago...it has now been narrowed somewhat to the point where many Australian motoring magazines and even overseas markets/mediums have given an on par rating and even shown favour to our local product when compared to the rest of the market offerings.

Again, besides wheels and ride height, what about the Coupe 60 needed to be changed for eligibility as a production car? You really don't know, do you? As if function over form has prevented anyone in the past from putting excessively large wheels or lowering springs on their vehicle. What a contradiction it is to talk about the Coupe 60 needing to be toned down in order to meet production standards, yet state that the production version of that car wouldn't impose the drama of the R35.

Again, the aftermarket industry is 100% relative (and exponentially so) to the population of vehicles in Australia. As said before, Commodores (not to mention Falcons) make up about 20 times the number of BMW vehicles on our roads...everyone but the niche workshops and manufacturers is going to chase after that and they do. You should also acknowledge that the aftermarket favours/targets an age demographic that on average falls a bit short of being able to afford $50,000+ vehicles.

Contrary to your opinion, both Coupe 60 and W427 were well received by the public. Again, you're in the minority of people that people like me have the pleasure of not dealing with outside of an internet forum. Yes, silver with red leather...that's never been done in a car before has it...BMW? Mercedes? My promo girls have been present at less motorshows than you and can still demonstrate a more sound/rational knowledge of the concept of motorshows / the automotive industry in general.

P.S. the reason rehab2010 didn't "cop a spray" was because I have no idea where to start arguing with that sort of one-liner, irrational mindset...atleast you're specific in the crap you distribute on these forums, trying to sound rational.

P.S.S. Actually, your arguments consist of old newspaper clippings, Google, a few stories from friends and somewhat of a narrow mind. On retrospective thought, I'm probably better off arguing with rehab2010.

[Beer Baron]

I can only agree with one point that max made which is that for 950,000 I would probably take a ferrari F40 LM and some change over the Monaro 427. though if I had loads and loads of money I'd have both. and many others to go with them.

but seriously, I know I said drive as many cars as possible, and keep an open mind and all that, but really, a maxima of any type is not on that list mate... I can't foresee any possible situation that I'd enjoy being in a maxima.... you can get a car that is fun for as little as $1000 so budget is no excuse either. it's a matter of taste. set the maxima on fire and buy something fun with the insurance money.

I'm not sure what the monaro really sold for. i know the owner of the classic throttle shop very well so I'll have to ask him next time I speak to him.

[Beer Baron]

Yep, its good to share (Cars that is) I took someone in my R35 the other day straight after getting the mid pipe fitted & let them have a go too. He was wrapped that I let him but you are right, why not.

Expensive car yards dont like it very much though!!! I have driven a number of Maseratis, Ferraris, Porsches, BMWs etc on the off chance I might like to buy one but mostly decided to stay with my Jappers - ha ha.

Agree about the Diablo - they just say &$^% off awesome looking cars.

Too many good cars out there - Not enough time (or money) I am trying to cut down anyway.

The cops are trying to cut us down too. I only had my R35 for 2 weeks before they decided to store it for me for 7 days!!!

When I went to pick it up from impound it was surrounded by VL & VNs with flat tyres & the GTR seemed quite happy to get out of there. I dont think it liked Hoon jail very much!

lol, shame your 35 spent some time in the clink mate. at least it was by far the toughest inmate and was almost certainly not violated in the showers by the masses of thrashed silvias and vl commodores in there.

in NSW at the moment we are enjoying what I like to call "speed free week". NSW cops have decided they shan't be issuing any speeding fines for 7 days as they want more money and aren't getting it. I've made a little song to sing as you drive down the NSW freeways this week.

speed free week...

it's lots of fun

speed free week...

no need to run

speed free week...

it's just this one

speed free week.

[LSX-438]

LSX, I certainly remember the Holden Coupe concept in 2000 and the Monaro production car unveiling in Sydney. And you know why this car generated enormous interest? becuase it didn't look like some over the top concept car (like the VE Coupe 60), It looked very much a production car and this got people in a frenzy (and rightly so!) Whilst the Coupe 60 makes a good wall poster, I bet you a production car ready VE Coupe would have really made tongues wag, but what would I know? I've only been part of the scene for 15 years.

I agree the Coupe 60 didnt look "production ready".

I still love it, and wish they would have made a VE-based coupe nonetheless

[Max_ST-R]

Birds I'll be brief (as possible)

- VS Commodore was just ok, I have had plenty of experience with later models too and nothing really impressed esp after few years wear and tear, VE by far the best, a quantam leap over VZ. A the end of the day I have bought & experienced a new GM product which I bought new and owned for 11 years, whether you believe/accept it or not is of no consequence. If my mates R8 Clubsport was a bargain buy at the end of it's lease, yes I'd consider it for sure although a Lexus GS300 or GS430 is at the top of my list for the next purchase. Why should/should I be compelled to buy a GM product? to impress a Holden fan on an internet forum who drives a grey import Skyline!!!! cripes!

- Coupe 60 in production form will be a 2 door commodore, quite handsome I'm sure, but none of the curves, radical design or engineering of the GT-R. Even the Coupe 60 has a very square blunt looking front end...

- as for aftermarket industry, best way to describe this I guess is that there is a much stronger CULTURE when it comes to adding superchargers or modyfying GM/Ford muscle car product than there is for Mercedes E-Class sedans.

- As for Silver and red leather. Silver exterior with red leather looks terrific if it is the CORRECT shade of silver and CORRECT shade of red leather. I think the Walkinshaw silver is a particularly naff shade (with a tinge of green or blue to it perhaps?) and the red leather interior looks like some one was stabbed to death in there rather than a more subtle darker red shade that merc and BMW do. but I'm sure you'll disagree

- As for knowledge, much of it is gained by personal experience (you'll disagree), but being in the motor industry I have press releases, write ups and the rest of it shoved in my face everyday- what is wrong with gaining some knowledge from what you read???

[D-Spec]

And time to unsubscribe...

[Max_ST-R]

I can only agree with one point that max made which is that for 950,000 I would probably take a ferrari F40 LM and some change over the Monaro 427. though if I had loads and loads of money I'd have both. and many others to go with them.

but seriously, I know I said drive as many cars as possible, and keep an open mind and all that, but really, a maxima of any type is not on that list mate... I can't foresee any possible situation that I'd enjoy being in a maxima.... you can get a car that is fun for as little as $1000 so budget is no excuse either. it's a matter of taste. set the maxima on fire and buy something fun with the insurance money.

I'm not sure what the monaro really sold for. i know the owner of the classic throttle shop very well so I'll have to ask him next time I speak to him.

Beer Baron. i have read many of your posts and I see you have owned/own a great selection of cars. I congratulate you on your prosperity and the ability to indulge in your passion of high performance cars. I'll admit I earn an avarerage middle income wage so I am unable to indulge as much in my passions as some, but given a limit of $20,000 and you want a large 4 door sedan with very kms, but you want something a little different, that looks good, is comfy, all the bells and whistles and a great mechanical package your options are limited. You want something with proven reliability and will carry 2 little ones in the back in SAFETY & comfort. I purchased my car with 38,000kms on the clock in 2007, one owner, it has factory body kit, sunroof, 17" alloys, elec seats 6-disc CD player, climate control and drives as smooth as a swiss watch. I considered BA XR6, better dynamics yes, but very plain, very cheap looking and as is being proven recently, various problems ranging from brake hose failures, to rust, to leaking radiators that trash transmissions and LSD's that require rebuild at about 90.000kms. Other choice, VX commodore? na, Camry, na, Mazda6 yes (but the prices!...and it's a 4 cylinder) ditto Accord Euro. The other thing I like about my particular car is that Nissan used considerably better materials than the following J31 Maxima.

If I had some money to throw on a cheap fun weekend car, a Ford Escort RS2000 has always been a favoruite and I once owned a KF Laser TX3 which was also pretty fun...doesn't suit my needs anymore. Like I said, I love cars but I'm pragmatic too.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Max_ST-R

[Max_ST-R]

I agree the Coupe 60 didnt look "production ready".

I still love it, and wish they would have made a VE-based coupe nonetheless

I thought the Coupe 60 was a tease when I saw it, I was hoping to see a production ready VE 2 door and was disappointed.

[Birds]

Still waiting for you to answer my questions Max...you're starting to sound like a politician. And reading your latest post, I am now seeing your argument as nothing more than your own subjective opinion attempting to be passed off as fact.

I'm not saying you have to own a Holden, but it would certainly give your original critical argument more rational credibility than trying to pass yourself off as unbiased based on your mate owning a Clubsport. You refer to me as a Holden fan driving a grey import, as if that does anything but suggest how open minded I am when it comes to cars and that I have no inherent bias when it comes to manufacturer. In contrast, you're so far up the proverbial arse of only your own experience that you'll only ever accept what your biased mind lets you see. Someone must be crazy to spend this much on a Holden just because you wouldn't do the same? Well I wouldn't spend $170k on the other car in this garage, but I can certainly appreciate why some people would, even if I don't see the appeal. And I definitely respect someone's decision to do so without questioning their intelligence or how they obtained their wealth.

That culture you speak of is directly driven by demographics, more specifically age and wealth. The want to have a fast and/or good looking car without having the dollars to buy a Ferrari/Porsche. Oddly correlated with the amount of money one has to spend on a car. Welcome to Psychology 101 Max.

Of course I'll disagree with you. The beauty of me disagreeing with you is that I have a good deal of public consensus on my side. So even when we're talking about aesthetics, opinions, other subjective matters and the like...I don't have to feel like I'm arguing a moot point.

Personal experience means jack when you don't pay attention or approach experience with an open mind. Quality over quantity Max. A child could learn more than you just by asking what/how/why instead of assuming it. Press releases? Terrific source of information. Incorruptible media in it's purest form. That makes me laugh, alot. I have someone come into my office on a daily basis just to empty my recycle bin full of them. I call it my "spin bin". I can only imagine your mentality when browsing through these: duck, duck, duck, Holden/goose, duck, duck, duck, Holden/goose.

[Gibbo_R35]

Wow your are right Barron....the GTR looks huge compared to the 427,

See how smooth and steath like that was....now we are back on topic.

[Birds]

Very stealthy Gibbo...that was akin to hitting a church bell with a pick axe

[Max_ST-R]

http://www.desktopcar.net/wallpaper/5543-2...coupe60_122.jpg

Birds:

- front bumper/spoiler would never, ever be that deep, wide or low

- side exhausts- Holden would never mass produce these

- car sits incredibly low would never be acceptable for road use

- side skirt looks exaggerated (protrude too much)

- wheels seem to be pushed out as far as they can go on each end, tyres seem to protrude outside wheel arches at certain points too. No current VE product looks anything like this in this respect, even the W427 looks very tame in this respect. Actually you can use any current HSV as benchmark, the Coupe 60 CONCEPT makes them look under wheeled and skinny

- wheel arch flares also look exaggerated, even by VE standards

You can disagree all you like but once the side exhaust disappear, ride height is altered, body kit is altered, wheel track is made the same as all other VE product ,19 or 20" wheels are fitted and 22" units are removed, the end result will be a very different looking car. I personally think it looks OTT, I reckon a production version, whilst much more subtle will actually look better, this car looks to me like a characature of a car.

And fark CONSENSUS! my opinion is just that, MY OPINION! i don't need the approval of others to justify my position!. I appreciate the performance capability of the W427, but for me it is just a crazily overpriced car and I'd buy something else for that money. If you or anyone else can't accept that I'd rather spend $60K on a Clubsport and save a $100K over a W427 well sorry that's freedom of speech for ya. As I recall i nver had a personal dig at ANYONE, even YOU, when it was obvious you were intent on thrashing this out becuase by not acknowledging the W427, you've somehow misconstrued this as a personal insult!...it's just a car!

[Max_ST-R]

I'm not saying you have to own a Holden, but it would certainly give your original critical argument more rational credibility

I DID OWN A HOLDEN...AND for 11 YEARS!!!!...funny how you brushed this little fact off!, how many years did your own your Holden???...and BTW I've driven every Clubsport since VX in 2001 to 2008 VE so I have some idea what I am talking about here too.

Now, lets throw the shoe on the other foot...

..... you don't think that there are HSV owners, fans & diehards out there who don't think the W427 is just way too expensive and could never justify it and it's crazy to pay that much money when the GTS is so good???.........and you reckon I have my head up my arse !!

This is a Nissan forum and there were NO shortage of people who thought the R35 GT-R spec- V was/is outrageously priced and many said they would never have one & couldn't justify it- especially when the 'normal' one performs like it does... I didn't see you go off half cocked back then? were were you then? The Spec-V is a limited edition and had enough differentiation to the normal car like the W427 to the GTS, but there were outcries that this car cost so much and it would be crazy to pay the premium for it.

Reality is, you YOURSELF have a bias towards GM Holden and it's obvious..and that's actually fine by me, but don't go accusing people of being biased when you do the same! Really EVERY body has bias, preferences, prejudices, that's Human nature, and at least I can admit that....

[Gibbo_R35]

Max,

Having looked at that Coupe 60 again, I would buy one in a heart beat if it was released looking like that. The silver coupe60 next to the GTR in the garage...now that would be better than the 427.

[thommo]

this thread's title should be changed to "battle of the keyboard warriors"

[Beer Baron]

Beer Baron. i have read many of your posts and I see you have owned/own a great selection of cars. I congratulate you on your prosperity and the ability to indulge in your passion of high performance cars. I'll admit I earn an avarerage middle income wage so I am unable to indulge as much in my passions as some, but given a limit of $20,000 and you want a large 4 door sedan with very kms, but you want something a little different, that looks good, is comfy, all the bells and whistles and a great mechanical package your options are limited. You want something with proven reliability and will carry 2 little ones in the back in SAFETY & comfort. I purchased my car with 38,000kms on the clock in 2007, one owner, it has factory body kit, sunroof, 17" alloys, elec seats 6-disc CD player, climate control and drives as smooth as a swiss watch. I considered BA XR6, better dynamics yes, but very plain, very cheap looking and as is being proven recently, various problems ranging from brake hose failures, to rust, to leaking radiators that trash transmissions and LSD's that require rebuild at about 90.000kms. Other choice, VX commodore? na, Camry, na, Mazda6 yes (but the prices!...and it's a 4 cylinder) ditto Accord Euro. The other thing I like about my particular car is that Nissan used considerably better materials than the following J31 Maxima.

If I had some money to throw on a cheap fun weekend car, a Ford Escort RS2000 has always been a favoruite and I once owned a KF Laser TX3 which was also pretty fun...doesn't suit my needs anymore. Like I said, I love cars but I'm pragmatic too.

lol, I was just having a little fun.

everyone needs a boring car sometimes. not everyone wants to strap 2 kids to the roof of an RX7, then fold the wife in half like she was a tetris block and squeeze her in through the roll cage. I can understand that. but you don't need serious $$ to have serious fun in a car. I can think of a few fun cars that are cheap to buy and run.

and I have a boring car too. it's a 07 subaru liberty sedan. and it's even auto for gods sake and not even turbo! in my defence it's really the girlfriends car and I'll shortly be selling it and replacing it with an EP3 civic Type R which I love.

[SkyHi_33]

Those wheel arches and fitment on the coupe 60 bring ns.com wheel fitment thread to mind haha, i quite like it. The ve series holdens appeal to me for whatever reason, not a big fan of holden in general but their latest models have been top notch!

One awesome garage there too in the first post!