Stock 34 Gtt To 300+ Rwkw

[Sydneykid]

On the street I found a 265 rwkw R34GTT was faster than a 325 rwkw one and a damn site more pleasurable to drive.

Cheers

Gary

[Birds]

It's all about where this power is made too. Have taken down a 210rwkw R34 in a stock Soarer before. Drove this R34 and it barely felt faster than my basically stock R33 GTS-T. 210rwkw is useless in a drag race when it's being made at 6800rpm and you have buggerall midrange. You're either going to wheelspin to nowhere or bog down on turbo lag.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

power means nothing, I can tell you now my old car which made 50rwkWs less would be faster down the quarter

[Krishy]

your right Johnny....i am chasing power with response if that makes any sense.....i am not too fussed about having huge power as i know that anything above 250-270 is just plain insane....i want response but with a highflowed rebuilt stock turbo with 3071 or 76R internals will be a lot stronger then you plain stock internals.....at the same time gaining a bit more power but with that particular setup the time the boost comes in should be somewhere closer to stock.....hence it would be more fun to drive....its my weekender and by that it has been on the road once in the last month so i only drive it to enjoy it

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

isn't he selling his car?

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/34...bs-t276164.html

[jase-r34]

my reason for that is... my mate just bought a 290kw holden ute, I was thinking of getting a GTP which puts out over. If i could get it up to 310rwkw i'd be stoked

other peoples reasons would prob be similar.. 350 is overkill, 250 is sweet but 300 is impressive/borderline stupid + 300 is just rounded... no one's gonna go round saying I want 289rwkw

The 290kw ute.... that's flywheel power I'm assuming as you didn't say rwkw. 300rwkw I believe is closer to 400kw at the fly. So why the need for so much?

[SS8_Gohan]

i've always worked on roughly a 40-50rwkw drive train loss (never really know if it's a constant number or a percentage of the fly power)

krishy, i was thinking similar to you but the reality is that 250-270rwkw from any turbo won't see "close" stock response, unfortunately it won't happen. My stock turbo was all in by 2800rpm i think, maybe even a little earlier, i'm now at 3700rpm. It's not a direct comparison because i'm running a lot more boost now but even at say stock'ish boost levels of 12psi, i would only expect full boost at 3500rpm at best. Don't get me wrong, it's still responsive, but in 33's, 34's you are sub 3000rpm full boost stock

unless you wanted to go poncams and cam gears to shift everything towards response, then you'd be close

[Krishy]

i've always worked on roughly a 40-50rwkw drive train loss (never really know if it's a constant number or a percentage of the fly power)

krishy, i was thinking similar to you but the reality is that 250-270rwkw from any turbo won't see "close" stock response, unfortunately it won't happen. My stock turbo was all in by 2800rpm i think, maybe even a little earlier, i'm now at 3700rpm. It's not a direct comparison because i'm running a lot more boost now but even at say stock'ish boost levels of 12psi, i would only expect full boost at 3500rpm at best. Don't get me wrong, it's still responsive, but in 33's, 34's you are sub 3000rpm full boost stock

unless you wanted to go poncams and cam gears to shift everything towards response, then you'd be close

Umm i hear what your saying mate...i know at that sort of power the el stocko response goes out of the window....but i dont want to have a lag monster if that makes sense....whats the point in having a billion rwkw when you only have 200rpm to use it....3300-3700rpm sounds reasonable to me in getting a nice response from there on....but using the stock machined out rear housing, now wont that help in bring the response a bit closer to stock.....for me 250-270 rwkw more like 250 would be where i would like it to be....its currently making 211 on stock turbo at 12psi....so a highflowed wont that mean that i can run a bit more boost and get a slightly higher power....

Loving it as it is atm.....2800rpm and BANG booogey time

[bombtrack]

For what it's worth, I'm running just under 300rwkw on an R34 GTT which I, with the help of some good workshops, have built from stock. Full boost by 3500rpm. I don't really miss stock boost and how early it came on, it's just an adjustment to your driving style... and it's no where near Lag Monster status. An adjustable exhaust side cam gear is a must though. Don't bother with two because ideally you want to keep your VVT. Cams make less of a difference which is more noticeable at the top end anyway.

$10-15grand is a good starting point but be ready to keep going. At 300rwkw unless you get substantial suspension and ride work done, you will never get the power to the road. Furthermore you will want at least upgrades to the stock brake system.

As people have mentioned before, you motor might also go bang at 300rwkw. The R34's are a newer motor and generally believed to be good for a little more power than the older versions, but not much. And that is an additional $10000 right there.

Finally, I believe that your methodology for working out the power you want is all wrong. You are comparing apples with oranges as far as your 300kw Holden or Ford vs 300rwkw Skyline. Not only are you comparing a flywheel figure to a wheel figure, but the Skyline is also considerably lighter. You DO NOT need 300rwkw in a skyline to be quicker off the mark than a 300fwkw holden or ford.

[Krishy]

As people have mentioned before, you motor might also go bang at 300rwkw.

I have witnessed a R33 S2 making 356rwkw on an upopened RB25DET.....thats not to say that it could pop any minute....but thats some power firgure tho

[PM-R33]

Umm i hear what your saying mate...i know at that sort of power the el stocko response goes out of the window....but i dont want to have a lag monster if that makes sense....whats the point in having a billion rwkw when you only have 200rpm to use it....3300-3700rpm sounds reasonable to me in getting a nice response from there on....but using the stock machined out rear housing, now wont that help in bring the response a bit closer to stock.....for me 250-270 rwkw more like 250 would be where i would like it to be....its currently making 211 on stock turbo at 12psi....so a highflowed wont that mean that i can run a bit more boost and get a slightly higher power....

Loving it as it is atm.....2800rpm and BANG booogey time

i've always worked on roughly a 40-50rwkw drive train loss (never really know if it's a constant number or a percentage of the fly power)

krishy, i was thinking similar to you but the reality is that 250-270rwkw from any turbo won't see "close" stock response, unfortunately it won't happen. My stock turbo was all in by 2800rpm i think, maybe even a little earlier, i'm now at 3700rpm. It's not a direct comparison because i'm running a lot more boost now but even at say stock'ish boost levels of 12psi, i would only expect full boost at 3500rpm at best. Don't get me wrong, it's still responsive, but in 33's, 34's you are sub 3000rpm full boost stock

unless you wanted to go poncams and cam gears to shift everything towards response, then you'd be close

My car is more responsive on my current setup than it ever was. Dyno graphs and boost graphs from now and the stock turbo are all better.

My goal for my car was to keep it as responsive as i possibly could with as much power as i could (realistically speaking) as it is my street driven daily. So it can be done but it aint easy.

Edited July 17, 2009 by PM-R33

[STATUS]

For what it's worth, I'm running just under 300rwkw on an R34 GTT which I, with the help of some good workshops, have built from stock. Full boost by 3500rpm. I don't really miss stock boost and how early it came on, it's just an adjustment to your driving style... and it's no where near Lag Monster status. An adjustable exhaust side cam gear is a must though. Don't bother with two because ideally you want to keep your VVT. Cams make less of a difference which is more noticeable at the top end anyway.

$10-15grand is a good starting point but be ready to keep going. At 300rwkw unless you get substantial suspension and ride work done, you will never get the power to the road. Furthermore you will want at least upgrades to the stock brake system.

As people have mentioned before, you motor might also go bang at 300rwkw. The R34's are a newer motor and generally believed to be good for a little more power than the older versions, but not much. And that is an additional $10000 right there.

Finally, I believe that your methodology for working out the power you want is all wrong. You are comparing apples with oranges as far as your 300kw Holden or Ford vs 300rwkw Skyline. Not only are you comparing a flywheel figure to a wheel figure, but the Skyline is also considerably lighter. You DO NOT need 300rwkw in a skyline to be quicker off the mark than a 300fwkw holden or ford.

300rwkw is a walk in the park for a "good" R34 gtt engine we have around 4 all making 290- 330rwkw unopened all done for a lot less than 10-15k we even have a few std RB25's making 320-330 rwkw's using full JAP gear (ie Greddy T67 full external gate turbo kits, jap injectors, PFC, Plenums, pumps and titanium exhausts for less than 15k)

It all comes down to using quality parts and management.

Having driven 100's of skylines with nearly every concievable combo i reckon 280-290rwkw is about the sweet spot for a daily with DECENT rubber and rims. this equats to about 350-360kw if comparing to commo's and falcons.

Edited July 17, 2009 by URAS

[Tangles]

yeah I gotta say having 240kw at the wheels available as per the standard tune is pretty fricken sweet

more boost rises to 250rwkw and thats unreal, so once I redo my injectors Im expecting 250rwkw day in day out

from an awd Stagea, automatic, thats an awesome onroad combination

oh as for costs I make it 15k to 25k

3k turbo

2.5k suspension

1.5k brakes

1k fmic

1k exhaust

2k ecu, remap, piggybacks, tuning etc

1k internal items, ie seat, guage etc

2k engine items, ie fpr, splitfires, injectors etc

1k for bits here & there such as 100,000km service, or 2k if using N1 oil/water pumps

5k head work incl porting, poncams, gaskets etc

5k bottom end rebuild incl 87mm pistons, rods, bearings

that there gives you 250kw for 15grand

or 300kw for 25grand, potentially 350rwkw

[Sydneykid]

Having driven 100's of skylines with nearly every concievable combo i reckon 280-290rwkw is about the sweet spot for a daily with DECENT rubber and rims. this equats to about 350-360kw if comparing to commo's and falcons.

I agree, I have yet to drive any RB25 with over 300 rwkw that doesn't have too much lag for me. Since they weigh heaps more, the Commondoor Foulcan comparison is more like 420 kw (engine).

Cheers

Gary

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i'm running the same setup as bombtrack but without poncams...

i get 285rwkw with full boost of 21psi by just under 3500.... that's as good as stock response really. the car is snappy as all hell and great fun to drive

to compete with your mate's stock 290kw falcodore you really only need 200rwkw odd. my old setup with 185rwkw would keep up with holden v8's

[SS8_Gohan]

hahaha, i must be in the sweet, sweet spot then, 285rwkw

and PM-R33, i guess i was referring to the basic bolt-on stuff. As i said at the end of my last post, "unless you want to go poncams..." etc etc... your engine is partly built, and bombtrack has poncams and exhaust cam gear.

on a bit of a side note, as there are quite a few of us in the thread with similar power, what do you guys think would be the a suitable brake package to compliment the sorts of power #'s we're talking about?

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

i'm running standard size DBA4000 slotted rotors, standard calipers, metal pads, copper grease on the anti squeel shims, standard lines, and motul fluid.

on the rear i just got the stock rotors machined

as for response issues, an exhaust cam gear is not exactly an expensive bit of kit.... kind of a "might as well" in my books

just do NOT get an s1 HKS item!

[89CAL]

Personally... I think you shouldnt be trying to pull 300rwkw out of your car, JUST so you can beat your mate with a Holden with an advertised power level that is about the same.....

If you want to do up your car for your own satisfaction then go for it, just dont do it up to impress other people.

And like others have said, im guessing your talking about the advertised kw output (as per the badge on the back of clubsports etc) which in that case first of all you will beat it with way less then 300rwkw. And that advertised power is at the fly not at the wheels. Someone was even telling me that you can basically keep the number that is advertised on the back but put HP after it instead of KW and that will be closer to the rear wheel power output

But please if your gonna do up your car. Do it how you want it, not how it needs to be to beat your mates expensive commodore

[PM-R33]

hahaha, i must be in the sweet, sweet spot then, 285rwkw

and PM-R33, i guess i was referring to the basic bolt-on stuff. As i said at the end of my last post, "unless you want to go poncams..." etc etc... your engine is partly built, and bombtrack has poncams and exhaust cam gear.

on a bit of a side note, as there are quite a few of us in the thread with similar power, what do you guys think would be the a suitable brake package to compliment the sorts of power #'s we're talking about?

Im using slotted and dimpled RDA rotors with EBC redstuff pads and motul fluid. Stock calipers and lines. Brake's very well and even after a long thrashing through the hills still pulls up very well. I might upgrade to braided brake lines one day.

[Krishy]

hahaha, i must be in the sweet, sweet spot then, 285rwkw

and PM-R33, i guess i was referring to the basic bolt-on stuff. As i said at the end of my last post, "unless you want to go poncams..." etc etc... your engine is partly built, and bombtrack has poncams and exhaust cam gear.

on a bit of a side note, as there are quite a few of us in the thread with similar power, what do you guys think would be the a suitable brake package to compliment the sorts of power #'s we're talking about?

I bought the RDA slotted rotors of the Group Buy on here and they work a treat mate....Using Lucas brake pads with PBR brake fluid and loving it.....stops so much faster and better feel......