Cage, Seat, Harness, Safety

[LotusGTR]

I'm looking at a half cage for my 32 GTR. I do track days regularly enough and the family are enquiring about what happens if I turn the car over.......

It'll be a welded number with front intrusion bars. I had a fairly in depth chat with the cage builder who said the intrusion bars need to be done with the seat in mind.....I wasn't thinking of getting a seat immediately but I guess it's the next logical extension of the cage, and being on the track. Once you've gone this far, may as well get a harness too. It can / will be set up so the intertia belt can still be used on the road.

Now my car does get road driven so this stuff is not like a total no brainer. I'm a big fan of the std GTR seat. So comfy and so grippy, is original and costs me nothing....

So, has anyone run harnesses with the std seat? It has an aperture in the head rest so you'd think this is what it's for. From a safety perspective, is not getting a proper fixed back seat a bad move? Another way of asking this is, is the seat and integral part of the overall safety propositon?

I don't want to get a cage and discover that whilst it might add some protection, without a proper seat and harness the real gains in safety are not realised.

Thanks.

[Sydneykid]

Leaving out safety for minute, I've actualy found faster lap times from having a rigid seat that passes on the feel of what the chassis is doing. Plus a properly fitting seat with a 6 point harness means the body isn't moving around with the G forces so the limbs, feet and hands can do their thing freely, without having to also hold the body still.

Safety wise, I don't think a GTR seat is unsafe, but a properly fitted race seat is most certainly going to result in less injuries in a big one.

There are a few guys I know who change their seat for track days, if you are only doing 3 or 4 a year it's not a big task. If you are doing 8 or 10 then that's a different story, it gets a bit tedious. Much like swapping, harness, tyres, brake pads etc.

Cheers

Gary

[sav man]

lots of people run a harness with a oem seat. but i can't see how it would be comfortable, as the sholder straps come through the seat where your neck is, not over your sholders like a race seat (if that makes sence). i don't see why the cage has to be built round the seat, the the side intrusion usually sits out wide, and needs the door skins removed/modified.

[LotusGTR]

Leaving out safety for minute, I've actualy found faster lap times from having a rigid seat that passes on the feel of what the chassis is doing. Plus a properly fitting seat with a 6 point harness means the body isn't moving around with the G forces so the limbs, feet and hands can do their thing freely, without having to also hold the body still.

Safety wise, I don't think a GTR seat is unsafe, but a properly fitted race seat is most certainly going to result in less injuries in a big one.

There are a few guys I know who change their seat for track days, if you are only doing 3 or 4 a year it's not a big task. If you are doing 8 or 10 then that's a different story, it gets a bit tedious. Much like swapping, harness, tyres, brake pads etc.

Cheers

Gary

I'm glad you pointed out the matter of how a seat improves the drive as I wanted to discuss that too. I'll never swaps seats as I just couldn't be bothered. I guess if from a safety and drivability perspective I need to find a seat that ticks enough boxes on the street and on the track. Let's not forget that even if the car is 99% track driven, it'll be driven to the track, and tracks are not always that close to where you live. I know it's a bit soft but I CBF driving 6 hours to and from track, as well as track time in a seat that is very restrictive. I guess it comes down to what I can find that ticks boxes better than the std seat considering my needs.

[LotusGTR]

lots of people run a harness with a oem seat. but i can't see how it would be comfortable, as the sholder straps come through the seat where your neck is, not over your sholders like a race seat (if that makes sence). i don't see why the cage has to be built round the seat, the the side intrusion usually sits out wide, and needs the door skins removed/modified.

Yeah, I drove my car this morning as was checking that out. I suspected what you've said about the straps and the neck. Makes you wonder why Nissan put the hole there in the first place other than wank factor (which should never be underestimated!)

I think the cage / seat matching comment was made as the height of the side bars needs to match the top of the seat sides. They ideally should line up so you can support yourself on the bar whilst lowering yourself into the seat. I guess it can be done 'generically'. I'll double check this.

Pics attached of the (proposed) cage and the front bars. It's my understanding that no trim mods are required on the door skins, but I'll double check.

[Sydneykid]

I'm glad you pointed out the matter of how a seat improves the drive as I wanted to discuss that too. I'll never swaps seats as I just couldn't be bothered. I guess if from a safety and drivability perspective I need to find a seat that ticks enough boxes on the street and on the track. Let's not forget that even if the car is 99% track driven, it'll be driven to the track, and tracks are not always that close to where you live. I know it's a bit soft but I CBF driving 6 hours to and from track, as well as track time in a seat that is very restrictive. I guess it comes down to what I can find that ticks boxes better than the std seat considering my needs.

It’s not the actual driving time in a race seat that’s the problem, if you are not comfortable for 6 hours then it doesn’t fit you properly. The killer is getting in and out of a decent race seat, it’s a snug fit, it should mean a squeeze on the hips and torso, so you can’t just jump in and out easily like a road seat. Unathletic guys like me can't anyway. So if you, say, get in and drive straight to Winton, then that’s shouldn’t be problem at all. But if you get in and out for breakfast, fill up with fuel, morning tea, find a tree to take a leak etc, then it will drive you crazy.

There are a couple of guys I know, brothers, who compete 4 or 5 times a year and they do a full car preparation the day/night before a track day. Change seat, harness, brake pads, swaybar settings, camber, fit the R type tyres, jerry cans in the boot, bleed the brakes etc. They’ve got it down to a fine art, takes them about an hour and a half to get the car ready. One of them drives the car every day to work, so that’s their process, has been for years.

Cheers

Gary

[Roy]

I hope you were speaking to Meridian, they do very nice cages for track street cars. As for seats, bin the std seat. They may be comfortable but you will find that they are rubbish compared to a proper seat. I think you are best go for the velo GP90, very, very comfortable. I used to drive between Sydney and Melb with one.

Chat with Meridian and a look at BBGTR (Andrew) will have you convinced....and remember Velo GP90

[Victory]

I support the comments made by Gary on car preparation.

I run six point harnesses (without the crutch strap) in my GTR and GTS-T with GTR seats in each of them on the street. There are no problems with the belts feeding through the hole in the seat back if they are adjusted correctly. This provides greater car feel as you do not move around in the seat and you have a greater perception of what the car is doing in corners.

For a track day it is a simple task to remove the factory seats and install your aftermarket race seat - just four bolts. I use an OMP WRC seat for track days as it provides exceptional fit and support (picture attached). The race seat is very comfortable to use but hard to get into and out off to the point that it is too much hassle to leave in all of the time. The race seats are quite wide and that would be the reason for the comment regarding the side intrusion bars - in my cars the seat has about 1cm clearance at the shoulder to the door trim so the bar would have to be mounted lower where the seat is narrower.

Gary is also correct in track day preparation as with a Skyline it is a simple task to:

- Install race seat and crutch straps

- Change brake pads (when wheels are being swapped over)

- Install semi slicks

- Change sway bar settings

- Bleed brakes

With a bit of practice this can be done quite easily in a short time.

[LotusGTR]

I hope you were speaking to Meridian, they do very nice cages for track street cars. As for seats, bin the std seat. They may be comfortable but you will find that they are rubbish compared to a proper seat. I think you are best go for the velo GP90, very, very comfortable. I used to drive between Sydney and Melb with one.

Chat with Meridian and a look at BBGTR (Andrew) will have you convinced....and remember Velo GP90

Yes and thanks. I think I sat in a GP90 last night. I'm waitng for a full quote (gulp) from them so will see how this goes. Photos I posted are supplied by Meridian (they're very helpful).

[Beer Baron]

yes definitely get a proper seat and harness. the GTR seat with a harness is a bad idea. especially if you back it into a wall you'll find the backrest snaps off from the bottom and you'll end up sitting in the back seat, or more likely wrapped around the rear half of the cage like a pretzel! in a head on accident the seat will also snap and you will 'submarine' under the harness as there are no locators for the lap straps. think about it.

a proper race seat that fits you will be more comfortable, not less as it supports your body in all the right places. I personally feel a proper seat and harness is worth nearly 1 second per lap in a quick car as with stock seat and belt you expends a lot of energy gripping the wheel to hang on, and bracing yourself in corners. in a proper seat you can literally drive with fingertips and toes and you can feel exactly what the car is doing.

Velo are good seats and aussie made. and they have a variety of sizes so you should be able to find one to fit you properly. and definitely design the cage with the seat in mind as the last thing you want is getting the cage the realising it will foul on your seat of choice.

swapping seats literally is a 10min job max. it's 4 bolts and 1 clip. done.

[phunky_monkey]

I'd get the cage measured up with the seat in place.

I had this done and the builder still managed to bugger it up slightly (moved the seat forward, I'm a tall drink of water), resulting in a very costly and time consuming exercise of having custom rails made, plus the pain of trailering it there/back etc. Get it built around where you plan on sitting.

As for the seat itself, just change it before a trackday. It takes 5 minutes, and you can put the harness in at the same time.

[Beer Baron]

some pics of my old set-up that may inspire. seat takes 10 mins to swap. I used 34 GTR seats for road and the cobra for track. can use the cobra on the road too, but you do look like a bit of a tool at the toll booths or trying to hop out in a shopping centre...

[Z1LLA]

Yeah, I drove my car this morning as was checking that out. I suspected what you've said about the straps and the neck. Makes you wonder why Nissan put the hole there in the first place other than wank factor (which should never be underestimated!)

I think the cage / seat matching comment was made as the height of the side bars needs to match the top of the seat sides. They ideally should line up so you can support yourself on the bar whilst lowering yourself into the seat. I guess it can be done 'generically'. I'll double check this.

Pics attached of the (proposed) cage and the front bars. It's my understanding that no trim mods are required on the door skins, but I'll double check.

Nick, those pictures are of my car when it was in there getting the cage/seat/harnesses done a few months ago. The door skins remained untouched, this is how I wanted it as well. If you want more pictures let me know.

I chose the Cobra Evolution GT seat as well due to it fitting me better, the sides actually come up higher than the side intrusion bar.

[Roy]

I feel its my obligation to...

Nice living room Cu*t...i mean Count!

[Beer Baron]

lol, nah it's a dump! though it has rested my sore head on a few occasions...

as for cobra GT? it's the choice of champions. mine has been graced by the bum of glenn seton and my goodself. pretty good pedigree...

[battery]

where in melbourne can you go and try these seats out?

[phunky_monkey]

Revolution Racegear, GMP, Meridian Motorsport, Brown Davis etc

[fatz]

any recomendations for a fat Kunt race seat?

eg 6'5 140kgs

[JAGR33]

any recomendations for a fat Kunt race seat?

eg 6'5 140kgs

Don't bother with anything but the Racetech RT4009W (W stands for wide, which is 50mm wider than standard).

I've tried them all, I'm 6'5'' 110kg's, the only other seat I could get in was the Cobra Suzuka. Installed it and couldn't shut the door properly as the wings of the seat hit the door trim. So took it back out, got my money back and put the Racetech in, PERFECT.

Don't bother with Sparco, very slim chance of getting in one (pardon the pun).

Velo is no good either.

Here's the link..

http://www.racetech.co.nz/products.php?name=Seats/RT4009.htm

I guess you could go for the RT4000, it has less thigh support and would be easier getting in and out the car.

http://www.racetech.co.nz/products.php?name=Seats/RT4000.htm

Oh, and I had to get a quick release steering wheel too, much easier getting in and out...

Hope that helps...

[BBGTR]

Nick,

Some pics of my setup