Recent Spike In Violence In Melbourne

[KezR33]

Football is the problem?

Mate footy has been played for 100 years, its not the problem

But was it always so aggressive? I mean, I know its a rough sport and emotions can run high, but I never remembered guys purposely thumping each other just because. I think they should be a bit stricter on unnecessary bumping, shoving and no punching whatsoever.

I'm sure getting the other guy angry is viable tactic, but when you see two angry guys just going back and forth as they wait for the ball to come near them, or taking cheap shots as they go for the mark, tackle or whatever it just seems... pointless.

I'm 24 years old, and I'm back at Tafe with a bunch of 17-18 year olds and I swear half of them idolise these guys. Its surprising how much influence these players can have over kids.

Again, I'm not saying this is THE cause for all the violence, but it certainly can't be helping.

Edited July 17, 2009 by KezR33

[Astro Bear]

Tougher penalties - Corporal punishment.

You get convicted of bashing someone - 10 serious flogs from a night stick and you'll see these thugs think twice about even saying a word and it'll also get some respect back for the cops on the bear.

Slaps on the writs from courts, fines, suspended sentences do nothing - tough love - im all for it.

I also concur with bouncers just standing and watching. The Gov't and cops have made them such big targets as soon as they even lift their hand with serious fines and loss of their licenses i don't blame them for standing by when its their job they could loose at the end of the day. The Gov't is holistically to blame - as usual.

I couldn't agree more.

Zero tollerence .....is the only way.....it worked in New York it will work here...... the softly softly approach adopted by the police is not working and now Brumby and Overland come out and say the community needs to take a stand...well I am sorry but the community have been complaining to the government about this for three years and they do nothing bring back the old school policing I saykeep it .... very hard but fair.

Totally hit the nail on the head. Tough love is the answer. Perhaps being conscripted into the armed forces could give some young people some new perspective?

[Basti]

Totally hit the nail on the head. Tough love is the answer. Perhaps being conscripted into the armed forces could give some young people some new perspective?

compulsory service for 2 years in the armed forces for all males like singapore has will work wonders imo

[SKYL1N]

Rant/Story

About a year ago we were driving down chapel street, me and my mate. in front of the jam factory there is 1 guy been hit by 5 guys as his girlfriend/friend stands there screaming and begging them to stop. He is clearly outnumbered. My friend wants to help the man i told him don't be stupid as there was a cop car with the blue and red lights flashing about 100 meters up the road.

(this is about 3am)

i quickly drive up and pull over next to the cop car who has pulled over a p plater in a BMW

we tell the policeMAN what is happening only 100 meters up the road and we can here the girlfriend screaming from our car.

we were then told to "MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS AND MOVE ON"

I wish i called up a radio station about this or put this in the paper. That night i lost A LOT of respect for the Victorian police force.

[R31Nismoid]

But was it always so aggressive? I mean, I know its a rough sport and emotions can run high, but I never remembered guys purposely thumping each other just because. I think they should be a bit stricter on unnecessary bumping, shoving and no punching whatsoever.

I'm sure getting the other guy angry is viable tactic, but when you see two angry guys just going back and forth as they wait for the ball to come near them, or taking cheap shots as they go for the mark, tackle or whatever it just seems... pointless.

I'm 24 years old, and I'm back at Tafe with a bunch of 17-18 year olds and I swear half of them idolise these guys. Its surprising how much influence these players can have over kids.

Again, I'm not saying this is THE cause for all the violence, but it certainly can't be helping.

AFL has been a reasonably tough spot for many many years.

Its noting new, nothing recent.

The 'brawls' of today are a pussies event compared to the real brawls that used to happen 20+ years ago - in many respects with all the melee fines and so on AFL has been cleaned up considerably.

[tets]

Rant/Story

About a year ago we were driving down chapel street, me and my mate. in front of the jam factory there is 1 guy been hit by 5 guys as his girlfriend/friend stands there screaming and begging them to stop. He is clearly outnumbered. My friend wants to help the man i told him don't be stupid as there was a cop car with the blue and red lights flashing about 100 meters up the road.

(this is about 3am)

i quickly drive up and pull over next to the cop car who has pulled over a p plater in a BMW

we tell the policeMAN what is happening only 100 meters up the road and we can here the girlfriend screaming from our car.

we were then told to "MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS AND MOVE ON"

I wish i called up a radio station about this or put this in the paper. That night i lost A LOT of respect for the Victorian police force.

defects and fines count towards set targets.

stoping fights and arrests just causes paper work and hassels.

[R31Nismoid]

(just reading Fridays Herald Sun), it doesn't come to me as a surprise that all the names in the papers are ethnic/euro based, and they are the groups majorly responsible if you've been following the media coverage on this the past 6-12 months.

Some obviously from African/Asian/Aussie but thats more stuff in the suburbs in most respects and not the CBD/Prahran/St Kilda…

This is where a lot of people 'go out' for a fun night on the town that at present carries a risk it might end in tragedy.

I actually know of several clubs in the CBD that simply wont let you in if you 'look like a wog' as they put it.

This is simply because 'they cause too much trouble for us when they drink'.

Comments like this come from the owners of the clubs so it's not as if it's some door bouncer talking it up either.

Now i do realise its a large generalistation on my part, not everyone is bad etc etc - but i dont feel anyone can say that there is no truth in what i've said.

Even some of my 'wog' friends will admit they have a short fuse compared to the others in the group so its not as if its a big secret, thankfully they can control themselves.

What i also find interesting is the clubs i go to, very rarely have fights/altercations inside them as a result of the above. Other places/clubs I've been i can almost bet on the fact punches will be thrown by someone at least once in a night there and hence i usually avoid such outings knowing full well what might happen.

Now before people go spastic at me - I'm not saying that other backgrounds dont cause issues either.

When i go back to the burbs where i grew up and go out with the local boys (mostly 'aussies) - there is a mild push/shove stlye rumble every so often as well.

However it is nothing anywhere near as serious as people ending up in hospital hanging onto the last thread of their life or @ the worst - loosing their life.

And for what? All because 3 people have jumped a single innocent person 'for looking at them the wrong way' or whatever bullshit they come up with.

[DoriftoTengoku]

So after reading this article, I asked myself the following questions:

1) Do we need more police present at night?

I think that this article, Among others, Has definently proven that Police out and about doesn't do jack shit. There are still fights, There are still problems. I believe that the Police need a unit like the "Ringwood Brawlers"; A unit of big blokes (some maori) to deal with the idiots.

2) Is it because society has learnt to only have fun with alcohol and drugs, that this is happening?

Drugs do have a major part of this. I used to attend some clubs in Melbourne back in the day that always had drugs everywhere. And thats how fights started. Same thing with booze; A lot of young males drink in excess and think they are invincible.

3) Are our laws to lenient?

Way too linenet. I agree with a lot of the members posted in the past 3 pages about laws being a LOT stricter. They need to be, Otherwise the offenders will repeat their crimes over and over. They don't seem to realise that one King hit to right part of your temple can actually do some serious damage!

4) Does the community need more entertainment provided on a regular basis, such as concerts etc, to stop the violence in the city?

It would be good to see Melbourne have more acts and concerts, But at the end of the day, Its just another event for people to drink at, And then more fights start. Well, Thats how I see it :S

Most of our problems are here: KING ST and CHAPEL ST. How hard is that to manage... 20 fit police MEN, sorry to be sexist, fit men, to patrol and lock up trouble makers/ and intoxicated people, lock em up over night. That would solve half of your problem IMO.

Im sorry, But let me stop your right there;

Your saying that 20 fit police men, Can contain and "lock up" say..... 300 odd "Trouble makers"?

How many clubs are down Chapel street... Roughly 60 places. 60 x 200 occupants = 12,000 people. Thats just a rough guess but thats what i'm going to work with.

So you expect 20 Police officers, Who are "Fit", To control a general say 1,000 trouble makers? Are you for real?

Do you know how populated and out of control Chapel street is on friday and saturday nights? 20 Police officers would be like a f**king needle in a haystack down there.

Not to mention you lock up "X" ammount of trouble makers, The cell's would be full after 30 minutes.

I don't agree.

From what I've experienced, And I say this after I got held against a wall the other day DURING work hours by an Abboriginal, I beleive its alcohol and drug fuelled;

Teenagers and young men, Mainly from the outer suburbs, Get alcohol in their belly and then they think they are invincible. What a f**king joke.

Now Ban/Slay/Flame me for saying this next bit, But all I have seen in the past is gangs of ethnic minorities start fights; They have been the main culprits; Come to Australia, Do stupid shit and start fights and kill innocent people. What a joke.

I don't see Melbourne cleaning its act up anytime soon, I just hope the government can do something before it gets COMPLETELY out of control.

/end rant

Oh;

And cops won't do shit. Sorry, But its f**king true. And I come from a family whose parents were BOTH cops.

Cops are too afraid to get their hands dirty these days. Its been a long time since I've met a cop who actually did get phsyical. Like above, They would rather pull over cars and defect us.

Just the other day, I witnessed a particular bunch of "feral bogans" outside a Gloria Jeans in Pakenham start a fight with innocent passerby's. This is a group that is always there, Its like a hangout place for them. Anywho, The girls inside Gloria Jeans were petrified. They called the police, But the police did not do anything, They never drove by. I actually had to go out there with a couple of tradies from inside (friends of the owners i think?) and get them to move on.

3 blokes vs. 10 ferals.. And WE got them to move on. The Police would not do this ever...

Edited July 18, 2009 by DoriftoTengoku

[Travis Trayhern]

ok coming from a fighter myself have been fighting in the ring for a few years now Maui Thai kickboxing, I have to say football is not ruff lol a bunch of guys running around in tight little shorts hugging each other lol don’t get me started.

Now what I have from my experience is the body can take a fair beating but what is happening is the group bashings and the glassing/stabbing is what is out of control, when I go out I never go out with the intention to fight but always end up in one because I’m always running into ppl getting group bashed and I just can’t stand by and watch it happing or wait to the cops arrive because they would be half dead by then, I have been bottled once received 7 stitches across the side of my eye but I still do it.

It’s always a group of wimps that can’t do it alone, you see the first one fall out of the group and there is no group anymore.

I agree is because today’s youth has no respect for society and there parents and need some discipline I really don’t think jail will help because when they get out they can’t get a job anymore because of the conviction so 90% of them will resort to crime once again.

Someone suggested the army well I have to say that is a great idea; 4 years in the army would do wonders and if they failed at that yen throw them in jail.

and it got nothing to do with the clubs that the safe place it on the street that’s where the trouble is like the smoking outside, I remember walking from the crown down the street back to another club with my misses when I first come to Melbourne, we where harassed the whole way with groups of guys yelling out to my girl show us ya tits, how about a fu*k and so on, this is how it starts the male will stand up for is girl and there is a group bashing. Now we pick a club and stay there.

[DoriftoTengoku]

You know, I actually never remember there being many problems when smoking was allowed IN the clubs. Funny that.

I agree with the footy thing though Travis; Im Aussie and I just cant stand AFL.

I beleive it comes back to a personal joke of mine; How do you beat a leb 1 on 1? Snap his sim card.

Sorry for the racial humour but come on, Its true haha

Can you really blame the parents though? From what's been in the media for the past couple of years, It sounds as if the parents can't do anything, That their children are just flipping them off, Telling them to piss off and going out and doing their own thing? Parents can't restrict a 6'4" 21 year old, Can they? Its the latest generation of kids who go out, Get drunk as all hell, Think they are invincible and look for fights; Which in my opinion is just stupid.

[xALmoN]

Discipline has to start from a young age.

So even when the kid is all grown up and large, there would still be respect/fear.

[eMsta]

Discipline has to start from a young age.

So even when the kid is all grown up and large, there would still be respect/fear.

Too right!

[DoriftoTengoku]

Sorry, I would rather not Australia be made up of 90 percent immigrant families so that we can walk the streets without worrying..

The government is royalling assf**king Australia by letting certain ethnic minorities in and letting them run loose. Look at Dandenong for instance; I work there daily. I was doing a job at the Dandenong station and two fights broke out in the matter of 10 minutes. Sudanese. Thats just one problem.

There is no screening or anything these days to let these people in.

Sorry, A bit off topic and not related to the inner city problem but..

Alvin, You are on par there. Discipline. But Discipline ceases at a certain age for Teenagers. And these days, Its really young..

You can put as many cops out on the street as you can; I don't honestly know if it would make a difference; If anything, A lot of these idiots would feel threatened and start more fights.

[gdogzgtr]

The government and force command have made the force very weak in these situations. We have one member at work who is old school former Mr Victoria and boxer who has been instructed not to even check certain local crooks because they complained stating he was intimidating and harrassing them. I call searching a known drug dealer every time we see them good police work, now days that's seen as harrassment and we're told to leave him alone, little wonder why the force is so weak.

It's all the softly softly approach brought in by NIXON and that's not going to change any time soon. Now days even these street thugs have more rights than police and then get nothing at court that's why we HATE dealing with assaults. I was taught by senior members when I joined never to rush to a brawl "let them fight it out" and it's sad that most of the time this is how most members treat it also mos tare too lazy to do the work. If I go to brawl in area where I work there could be 5 police units coming and in 90% of the time I arrive first because nobody is willing to do the work and whoever turns up first gets all the paperwork.

It's hard for me to stay motivated when I do 10 times the work of most others in my area and they get paid the same and they finish on time and I end up with overtime most days and come into work in my own time to keep up to date. It's very sad and scary to know when you are getting bashed the police coming are all trying not to get there first.

[eMsta]

The government and force command have made the force very weak in these situations. We have one member at work who is old school former Mr Victoria and boxer who has been instructed not to even check certain local crooks because they complained stating he was intimidating and harrassing them. I call searching a known drug dealer every time we see them good police work, now days that's seen as harrassment and we're told to leave him alone, little wonder why the force is so weak.

It's all the softly softly approach brought in by NIXON and that's not going to change any time soon. Now days even these street thugs have more rights than police and then get nothing at court that's why we HATE dealing with assaults. I was taught by senior members when I joined never to rush to a brawl "let them fight it out" and it's sad that most of the time this is how most members treat it also mos tare too lazy to do the work. If I go to brawl in area where I work there could be 5 police units coming and in 90% of the time I arrive first because nobody is willing to do the work and whoever turns up first gets all the paperwork.

It's hard for me to stay motivated when I do 10 times the work of most others in my area and they get paid the same and they finish on time and I end up with overtime most days and come into work in my own time to keep up to date. It's very sad and scary to know when you are getting bashed the police coming are all trying not to get there first.

thats just shocking.....seriously Overland has to review all this and make the force stronger. This simply cannot go on no more.

[DoriftoTengoku]

We are forgetting one small point guys;

The Force is trying to recruit as their quota for Officers has been under the state average for the past 4 years.

Not many people want to be in the Force, And I can sort of understand why.

Its not too good over in Sydney either; One of my mates is in the force down there and she is repeatedly put into hospital with cuts, bruises, broken bones, the works..

[Taso84]

Divert cops from the TMU units to start dealing with the real crime. That will solve the problem period.

And to all u wog/lebo bashes (talking to u especially Nismoid), have u thought that ur attitude towards ethnic minority groups might be part of the problem.

I'm sorry but Australia is a very racist country as has been highlighted recently by the Indian bashings and the comments by ex Telstra CEO Sol Trujio. When u segregate a portion of society then really what do u expect? And this is not a new phenomenon either. Look at the LA riots, the riots in Paris 5 years back and the Cronulla riots. I just hope that Melbourne never reaches that stage but the situation is not hopeful when you look at the attitude of alot of "anglo australians"

[Taso84]

We are forgetting one small point guys;

The Force is trying to recruit as their quota for Officers has been under the state average for the past 4 years.

Not many people want to be in the Force, And I can sort of understand why.

Its not too good over in Sydney either; One of my mates is in the force down there and she is repeatedly put into hospital with cuts, bruises, broken bones, the works..

I think also the general stigma of being a cop is a problem too. Similar to the situation faced by the AFL and umpires, there is alot of negativity faced by officers today. The police force and the Govt in general is very much out of touch with younger ppl (Gen Ys) and young recruits are looked at as dogs, rats and cops.

This is as much the fault of the force as it is the Govt. Young pple have lost all respect of the police force and this I think hasd alot to do with the way cops treat us. It has very much become a "us versus them" mentality. This will only ever be fixed through a cultural and attitude change throughout the force.

[gdogzgtr]

I can't get into too many specifics but overland has dramatically reduced force numbers and is reducing the uniform general duties numbers almost every week. More and more special squads that are absolutely NO use to anyone and just taking away numbers out on the beat.

There is more than enough people interseted in joining force with at some stages up to 2000 people on waiting list for academy after successfully completing all stage of the application process. The government just doesn't want to hire more police.

TMU will never get diverted away from their traffic role as they are revenue raisers and that's their role so no complaining about that. TMU only comprise of very small amount of members anyway.

Until the hiracy of the force and goverment change and give police the power back and courts actually give some real sentances to these offenders the whole situation will only get worse.

Edited July 18, 2009 by gdogzgtr

[Taso84]

At least you are brave enough to admit the revenue raising role of TMU Graeme. 90% of officers u talk to will tell u its about "road safety". Whether they're dillusional or think they are fooling us who knows