Just Me Venting.. Why Buy Non Turbo..

[Dicer]

HP and KW wins bragging rights at the bar...

Torque wins races...

VS 3.8L 304 Nm@3600 RPM - At peak torque KW = 114KW

R33 RB25DE 255 N·m @ 4000 rpm - At peak torque KW = 106KW...

See how the VS has 7% more power at peak torque compared to the R33, yet has 20% more torque at peak torque?

The VN has 16% more torque according to the factory specs. The R33 is a similar weight (likely lighter) with similar rated torque and power levels. As per what I originally responded to, I am still yet to see how a VN is considerably faster than an N/A R33. I have a VR and I'm aware of the early power delivery in the RPM range of VN-VS commodores. If anything, straight line speed should be similar. Taking a corner will be a different matter I'm sure, but to suggest a Commodore is considerably faster than a similar Skyline is inaccurate.

[STYLN]

thats been happening for years and will always continue. Ive got mates who deliverately did the N/A hard tuned car coz now days its considered different. There's some impressive results thats for sure in the N/A ways. Turbo and forced induction is no different. There are great and bad examples, standard and mild in any car and the options NO MATTER WHAT CAR YOU OWN are only limited by laws and your own imagination.

Cant wait to see someone fit an RB25 DET from an r34 gtt into a VN or VT commonwhore, to be different. He'll get shot down by both scenes LMFAO. Typicalt of the closed minded nature many people have inside a diversified scene.

oh and Props to your tidy engine bay a few posts back Missr34 its a nice example of clean respectble mods in the N/A world. Push on girl im a fan regardless what directions you choose its the standard of work that sets the best aside, not the aspiration.

[mad082]

just out of curiosity, how did you work out the power at peak torque? i'm guessing that you did some dodgy maths to 'guestimate' what it would be.

also weight wise, the vn isn't that much different to a skyline. depending on which variant of the range it is, some are actually lighter than r33's and only a few kg's heavier than a 32. basically if you have a full tank of fuel and they have half a tank it would be lighter. vs only weighs about 30kg more than a 33, but again, depends on model variant.

as i said in an ealier post, what makes the aussie built cars slower than what they could be is the taller gear ratios. i had an auto vx commodore and it would do about 125kmh at 5500rpm (redline) in second. had the gear ratios been shorter then it would've accelerated harder.

[mad082]

thats been happening for years and will always continue. Ive got mates who deliverately did the N/A hard tuned car coz now days its considered different. There's some impressive results thats for sure in the N/A ways. Turbo and forced induction is no different. There are great and bad examples, standard and mild in any car and the options NO MATTER WHAT CAR YOU OWN are only limited by laws and your own imagination.

Cant wait to see someone fit an RB25 DET from an r34 gtt into a VN or VT commonwhore, to be different. He'll get shot down by both scenes LMFAO. Typicalt of the closed minded nature many people have inside a diversified scene.

oh and Props to your tidy engine bay a few posts back Missr34 its a nice example of clean respectble mods in the N/A world. Push on girl im a fan regardless what directions you choose its the standard of work that sets the best aside, not the aspiration.

been done many many times.

[MBS206]

The VN has 16% more torque according to the factory specs. The R33 is a similar weight (likely lighter) with similar rated torque and power levels. As per what I originally responded to, I am still yet to see how a VN is considerably faster than an N/A R33. I have a VR and I'm aware of the early power delivery in the RPM range of VN-VS commodores. If anything, straight line speed should be similar. Taking a corner will be a different matter I'm sure, but to suggest a Commodore is considerably faster than a similar Skyline is inaccurate.

A car that is 10% heavier, so really, would work out with around 5% more torque.

And I never claimed it was CONSIDERABLY faster. But I know exactly how a manual commodore gets up and moves, and how an auto one does (I used to own a VN Manual, and a VR Manual, and a VR Auto all V6)

0 - 100KM/H, The VN runs around in 8.1 seconds, R32 GTSt in 8...

1/4 mile, the VN in 15.7 seconds, R32 GTSt 15

Now notice how those times are so close, (the skyline being slightly faster?) now notice how I quoted times for the TURBO variants? How many of you can keep up in a straight line drag to your turbo counter part?

MissR34, please, head to the Drag Strip, then PROVE to me, your car is quicker then a dead set stock standard CV8 Monaro... CV8 Monaro standard, runs a 14.7 second quarter mile...

I went looking, and the only guys with NA Skylines who seem to talk about quarter mile experiences, are the R31 guys... And with a HEAP of work, they're only doing low to mid 14s... How you manage to keep up with a CV8 that'll do a high 14 with no issues, when you claim to not use your nitrous on the road...

Also, everyone here is all about claiming they're quicker then a FAMILY SEDAN (Note, you're comparing a sports car, to a family sedan), and all about chasing KW numbers, yet, as soon as someone attempts to point out, that what you're claiming is pretty "trash talk" you all jump to the "You're just jealous, blah blah blah" point...

Also, for those thinking they can keep up with the hypo cars, I had a guy claiming his NA skyline kept up with me so well off a set of lights... He got the shits when I actually gave it a bootful and left him for dead... Most days, the guys with super quick cars are only toying with you making you think you're "quick"...

[zebra]

I agree with you there matt,

Out of all the times ive been the the drag strip or circuit, I have never once seen an NA R32,33,34 skyline actually racing, and thats across 3 states (NSW, QLD and VIC)

Yet im out of fingers counting how many nearly standard VN-VS commodores I have seen at both the Strip and circuit actually having a go, not telling everyone how many NA skylines they have beaten with out proof at a set of lights.

[mad082]

when i took my magna to the strip there was a jeep cheroke there i think it was. it was running in the 17's, LOL. also quite a few commodores (ranging from a few hsv's in the 12's to dirty old vn's in the mid 15's) and falcons. i think there was maybe 2 or 3 33's there (members from on here), all turbo.

[MissR34]

oh and Props to your tidy engine bay a few posts back Missr34 its a nice example of clean respectble mods in the N/A world. Push on girl im a fan regardless what directions you choose its the standard of work that sets the best aside, not the aspiration.

thanks dude, its taken me a while to get her to the level that she is, the engine bay is still an ongoing project at the moment, with me working on it nearly everyday cleaning what ever i can to get it to the next level. i have always had the engine bay loose me points at shows, but when she was my daily driver it was very hard to keep it ultra ultra clean!!! will be interesting to see how she goes at her next show in october.

[scotty014]

lol i could see this happening from the beggining. people have to much opinions these days, back in my day we never had opinions the germans took them during world war 2 and thats the main reason we had to go to war to try and get them back. unfortunately we did get them back and stole the germans opinions at the same time, so thats why we have so many of them today.

this thread is like the discussions between auto vs manual they all turn bad.

[SL33K]

Looking forward to my Turbo R33 In a few weeks. been driving a GTS non turbo for over a year.

I really want to see how big the difference is between the turbo and Non Turbo after reading this thread.

[scotty014]

you will definately feel a big difference. i used to have a n/a r34 and thought it was great until i went turbo. after being in my mates r32 i was hooked lol.so i worked hard and saved and i got it and love my car. i still loved my old car too.

[G0DZLR]

i noticed a big diff going from my NA-T back to NA haha! and that was without a tune in the NA-T state...even still, for a fairly stock 2.5ltr 6 im happy with it. after all, it gets me from work to home to my girlfriends house everyday. one day when i have more many and a garage id get a turbo, but for now non turbo suits fine. plus it sounds a fair bit tuffer than a turbo(}tho i do miss the burble of the turbo )

at the end of the day, like a few other people whov posted in this thread, i love my NA 33, sure there are newer, quicker, more expensive options, but this suits me just fine, and imo looks great. it still turns heads, even if it is 15yrs old

[MBS206]

just out of curiosity, how did you work out the power at peak torque? i'm guessing that you did some dodgy maths to 'guestimate' what it would be.

also weight wise, the vn isn't that much different to a skyline. depending on which variant of the range it is, some are actually lighter than r33's and only a few kg's heavier than a 32. basically if you have a full tank of fuel and they have half a tank it would be lighter. vs only weighs about 30kg more than a 33, but again, depends on model variant.

as i said in an ealier post, what makes the aussie built cars slower than what they could be is the taller gear ratios. i had an auto vx commodore and it would do about 125kmh at 5500rpm (redline) in second. had the gear ratios been shorter then it would've accelerated harder.

Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x Speed (RPM) / 9.5488

We knew the torque, and at what RPM, and the 9.5488 is a fixed figure, therefore, we could calculate the power at peak Torque... Easy peasy. (to tell you the truth though, I just punched the numbers into an online calculator... )

But I do think MissR34 really should take her car to the track after she has claimed how fast it is... Just to prove it... Although, I honestly think she's too scared to find out it's slower then she and her fan base think it really is.

And really, I don't care that it's NA, or how it's mod'd for looks (It ain't my cup of tea though) but what pisses me off is the damn owners attitude of "knowing it all"...

[-Jimmy-]

I don't even know how this thread got comparing to commodores :S Seriously, they're in their own league.

And I haven't really seen any NA owners 'knowing it all' in here either?

People keep saying, why wouldn't you just buy a GTS-t? I think you'll find that most Skyline drivers driving NA these days would be forced to by the laws, they have to. Just like me. But they are still capable of being a great car that can handle well, or on the other hand occasionaly drift it.

I do look forward to the day I can own a turbo though.

[MBS206]

I don't even know how this thread got comparing to commodores :S Seriously, they're in their own league.

And I haven't really seen any NA owners 'knowing it all' in here either?

People keep saying, why wouldn't you just buy a GTS-t? I think you'll find that most Skyline drivers driving NA these days would be forced to by the laws, they have to. Just like me. But they are still capable of being a great car that can handle well, or on the other hand occasionaly drift it.

I do look forward to the day I can own a turbo though.

Go looks up all of MissR34's posts, not just in this thread.

She is a "know it all"

She's been in the FI area, asking for help, then telling people when they offer there help, she doesn't want to do things that way, because she knows a better way (Then why ask in the first place!)

Also, the age old knock sensors loosing her power... LOL

[zebra]

I agree with that, if i wasnt alowed to drive turbos, my pick would be somthing like a 20V Corolla, or a nice old datsun ute / sedan

[RedEmblem]

I think that if you have to go non-turbo, there are plenty of other cars out there that are better. A non-turbo Skyline isn't a bad car, but an inline-6 Nissan without a turbo is really just a big heavy Taxi without a logbook.

[scathing]

it really does amaze me how people that own a turboed car always believe that they think that they have ot have the last word on everything

I don't see you stopping your posts trying to defend your position either. Pot? Kettle?

and HAVE to be right

They don't have to be right. In the case of Skylines, though, they just are.

i mean seriously ffs, power isnt everything, but wait i hear you all go but u where gonna supercharge and then u were gonna turbocharge, yeah well things change unfortunatley for whatever reason, mine has been financial changes which have stopped me from doing what i wanna do.

Case closed. You aren't NA because you prefer NA, but only because you can't afford to go FI.

So all your bollocks about "power not being everything" and "liking NA" is just a bunch of insecure posturing to deal with the fact you own an inferior machine, that you now can't change.

Edited August 4, 2009 by scathing

[DRD-00F]

[N-DAWG]

If you re-read my previous 2 posts you will see who I quoted as using the word 'considerably', and the fact I never made it out to be you. Your R32 GTS-T times are a bit relaxed there, sub 7sec 0-100 and sub 15sec 1/4 mile should be more accurate for a stock machine (even auto do sub 7s 0-100).

But back to the original question, why a non-turbo Skyline?

- Looks just as cool. People don't generally buy cars they dislike the look of.

- More fuel efficient* (not always)

- Cheaper to purchase

- Cheaper to service

- Potentially cheaper to insure

- Better for provisional / probationary drivers to learn on* (my opinion having owned turbo and non turbo cars on my P's)

I guess some people are dissapointed when they see a good looking Skyline and then find out they're N/A or not as quick as they look.

With P Plate Laws, the cost of N/A Skylines aren't necessarily lower. I've seen a few posts now where people were looking at the option of converting a turbo back to N/A simply cause of the cheaper cost of buying a GTSt in various cases.

Maybe this has been an availability thing in some cases, but with the young generation wanting a Skyline and not being able to drive a turbocharged car, it gives potential sellers more reason to up their asking price on a good N/A Skyline.

Definitely agree with you on the better to learn on.. I don't regret driving an N/A Skyline for a year before throwing on a turbo. Suspension mods, good tyres and learning to control the car before throwing a heap of power at is definitely a good way to start IMO.

Any car is as fuel efficient as the driver makes it Definitely easier to guzzle it in a turbo though if you have a heavy foot or a spirited driver.