Rs250t Advise Needed

[joe rs250t]

i have a 2003 rs250t, just had a 3" exhaust done from the turbo back, they put it on the dyno and it is getting 191kw at the wheels, exhaust is the only mod so far, this has pushed the boost upto 15pounds, there is a noticeble differance when driving,but its still not a slam you in your seat type car yet,

anybody know what else can be done to this car to give it more acceleration

is it possible to make these cars go really fast or should i not waste my money(im willing to spend a few grand on it, if the results can be had)

[BigDirtyJase]

Joe welcome to SAU..

I see you have a M35...I'm no expert on this...but I don't think an turbo back exhaust mod will push the boost to 15 pounds...sounds like it's been boosted previously by the previous owner...they should be running 7 pounds if its all stock (I know the C34's are like this dunno about the M35) - was it like this from the day you brought it??

But to answer your question on making these cars go fast? You can make any car go fast - it all depends on how much you would like to spend and what you want out of it...

I suggest to start small but if you have money ready to go....What I have done on my car (or doing to my car), K&N Panel Filter, Boost Controller, FMIC and coming very soon a new turbo, ECU and tune.

I would definitely say get your ECU upgraded - either a Full ECU Replacement (ie Apexi PowerFC) if your car is a manual or a piggy-back/daughterboard (ie. Greddy Emanage Ultimate or Nistune) if your car is auto. This is essential so you tune the engine to what you want to do.

[joe rs250t]

Joe welcome to SAU..

I see you have a M35...I'm no expert on this...but I don't think an turbo back exhaust mod will push the boost to 15 pounds...sounds like it's been boosted previously by the previous owner...they should be running 7 pounds if its all stock (I know the C34's are like this dunno about the M35) - was it like this from the day you brought it??

But to answer your question on making these cars go fast? You can make any car go fast - it all depends on how much you would like to spend and what you want out of it...

I suggest to start small but if you have money ready to go....What I have done on my car (or doing to my car), K&N Panel Filter, Boost Controller, FMIC and coming very soon a new turbo, ECU and tune.

I would definitely say get your ECU upgraded - either a Full ECU Replacement (ie Apexi PowerFC) if your car is a manual or a piggy-back/daughterboard (ie. Greddy Emanage Ultimate or Nistune) if your car is auto. This is essential so you tune the engine to what you want to do.

hi

As far as i know the car was factory when i got it, from what i have read i think the m35 are more the 7 pounds factory,15 is what came up on the dyno sheet after exhaust was done, dont know what it was before exhaust was done

Also i think the factory stated torque at 410Nm is overated mine came out at mid to high 300's

Has anyone done the ECU on a M35? i would really like to know what results you got!

My mate has a 2004 xr8 and it smokes my stagea

is it possible to turn these cars into something that can beat an xr8 or should i not waste my money on upgrades?

cheers

[RS4StagMan]

My mate has a 2004 xr8 and it smokes my stagea

is it possible to turn these cars into something that can beat an xr8 or should i not waste my money on upgrades?

cheers

I think you will find that any Stagea having a forced induction engine can be made to go very well and easily demolish a XR8 with some simple mods, intake, exhaust, higher boost (may need to hiflow turbo), tunable ECU, dyno time, etc as mentioned above. Have a look at the Stagea dyno results sticky for a feel for what numbers these Nissan engines can produce without any internal modifications.

The biggest barrier with the Stagea is overcoming the initial weight of the car as it is a heavy wagon. But a Falcon XR8 (stock or slightly modified) is no problem for a Stagea with some $'s and time thrown at it. The question is how much do you want to spend?

The turbo cars are much easier to get get power out of than non turbo cars (more bang for your buck!).

Edited July 22, 2009 by RS4StagMan

[GoldZilla]

Hey Joe, welcome to SAU!

Nice choice of car, you should be pretty happy with it overall.

There is a bit of debate as to how much boost the M35s run at standard and with a freer-flowing exhaust, some people HAVE found that they do get around 15psi. Power and torque figures on a chassis dyno will be very different to that given out by manufacturers, as they measure them on an engine dyno out of the car. That's why power figures are always much lower than manufacturer-quoted figures (because a chassis dyno measures power after some of that has been lost through the gearbox, diff and driveshafts, etc.), and torque figures are always higher (because a gearbox multiplies how much torque is sent to the wheels).

As far as getting your car to "slam you back in your seat," don't forget that with you in the car, a full tank of fuel, oil and water in the engine, and everything else, a Stagea will weigh in close to 2 tonnes, so it's far from a race car.

Future mods you could contemplate: A FMIC would be handy (it won't give you more power, but it will give you more potential for performance with cooler intake temps), and with the ECU upgrade, keep an eye on the thread started by Bis-e Bee.

I'm assuming that when your friend smoked you in his XR8 (on a race track/quarter mile, right?) that you didn't stall the Stagea up against the brake before take-off? Also, the XR8 (if it's a BA version) has 260kW and 500Nm (these are manufacturer figures at the flywheel) in a car weighing similar to a Stagea.

[joe rs250t]

My mate has a 2004 xr8 and it smokes my stagea

is it possible to turn these cars into something that can beat an xr8 or should i not waste my money on upgrades?

cheers

I think you will find that any Stagea having a forced induction engine can be made to go very well and easily demolish a XR8 with some simple mods, intake, exhaust, higher boost (may need to hiflow turbo), tunable ECU, dyno time, etc as mentioned above. Have a look at the Stagea dyno results sticky for a feel for what numbers these Nissan engines can produce without any internal modifications.

The biggest barrier with the Stagea is overcoming the initial weight of the car as it is a heavy wagon. But a Falcon XR8 (stock or slightly modified) is no problem for a Stagea with some $'s and time thrown at it. The question is how much do you want to spend?

The turbo cars are much easier to get get power out of than non turbo cars (more bang for your buck!).

hi

the car cost me NZ$8500 i spent $1200 on exhaust and dyno

i am happy to spend another 3 to 4 grand on it

to easily demolish an xr8 it would have to have a serious increase in acceleration

[zei20l]

ok do a quick search and youl find a hell of a lot more information. 191kw on 15psi with only an exhaust? what dyno? and was it in shootout mode?

anyway, nice figure, but please turn the boost down if its a stock turbo, its not gonna last long.

from factory they run anywhere from 12-14psi(ish) but nowhere as low as 7psi. also the torque figure is about right. the factory figures are quoted at the flywheel, your number is from the wheels. and thats not bad at all!

there is NO pwerfc for M35, nor do they come in manual unless its NA. we are waiting on a remap service, if it doesnt, a piggyback system will be your best bet. also install a pod filter or better panel filter in the stock box.

[joe rs250t]

Hey Joe, welcome to SAU!

Nice choice of car, you should be pretty happy with it overall

I'm assuming that when your friend smoked you in his XR8 (on a race track/quarter mile, right?) that you didn't stall the Stagea up against the brake before take-off? Also, the XR8 (if it's a BA version) has 260kW and 500Nm in a car weighing similar to a Stagea.

Hi,thanks

Yeah, overall this car is awsome, IMO best looking wagon you can get, still quite rare even in new zealand

yes it is a BA falcon with some mods

cheers

[RS4StagMan]

hi

the car cost me NZ$8500 i spent $1200 on exhaust and dyno

i am happy to spend another 3 to 4 grand on it

to easily demolish an xr8 it would have to have a serious increase in acceleration

Assuming your 191 KW@ wheels is a correct and realistic figure, given a typical 30% drivetrain loss, the flywheel power should be around 270KW on your Stagea. This is a decent figure!

Assuming the BA XR8 has 260KW stock, about 10% more torque stock than your Stagea and some other mods, the BA could be nudging 300KW at flywheel, 500+ NM torque and may have a slight weight advantage also.

So I can understand that the BA may beat you in a 1/4 mile duel, but there should not be that much difference in times/distance?? How many car lengths over what distance are you talking?

Is the BA only slightly modified or is the owner only telling you some of the story? Manual/auto? ECU Chipped? Exhaust? Intake? Wider tyres?

With 270 flywheel KW on the Stagea, you may be approaching a point where your cheap upgrades will be limited (intake filter, piggy pack ECU, larger intercooler, injectors, fuel pump, turbo etc), and you may need to spend some serious $'s to get 320+ flywheel KW's.

In any case, good choice in car, Stagea's are awesome.

[pixel8r]

Its very likely an exhaust can tip your boost up to 15psi. As mentioned before, stock on most M35's is about 11psi, but on this forum many have varied results, usually between 10 and 14psi. Its generally recommended not to go over 14psi on a ceramic turbo (which the M35 has) since it will shatter, leaving bits of ceramic in your catalytic converter...not pretty. Apparently they cause quite a bit of damage when they go.

As for power output, the general feeling I get from stock kw at the wheels compared to older stageas is that the M35 actually came out of the factory with around 220kw at the flywheel. Stock is around 135awkw say. If you have 191kw (is that rear only or all wheels?) this is actually a big increase. An exhaust will usually only give you about 20kw extra on a turbo car, more if you have an aftermarket or remapped ecu and a good tune.

Generally the difference between flywheel kw and at the wheels is due to drivetrain losses (gearbox, diffs etc) and these losses generally do not increase (much?) as you increase power, so realistically if your car has 60kw more at the wheels, its close to 60kw more at the flywheel too. That'd be something like 280kw at the flywheel, remembering that this is all just pure guesswork.

The v8 will have much more torque right through the revs so I'd expect it to still win. However, from past experience it seems that Ford & Holden both suffer from huge drivetrain losses or lack of grip - since the kw figures never seem to be able to translate into 0-100 times or 1/4 mile times etc.

The M35 also tends to bog down a bit on take off, more so than older stageas, and can be harder to launch off the line effectively. You may find that building the revs up as high as you can with the brake on may give you better results, since you'll be on boost right from the start.

From here, at the very least, look into some form of tuning, maybe a highflow turbo (more power plus allows you to run more boost), boost controller...then see how you go. If its AWD, remember you have a huge advantage over the xr8 on anything except a dry road.

[Jetwreck]

Sorry I'm a bit lost with this....191kw's at the wheels with just an exhaust!!!!!!!! scotty mn35 has an exhaust and piggyback and is only getting 173kw's at 16psi.....something does not add up!

[zei20l]

maybe 191hp? thats 142ish kw.... which is about right!

[Jetwreck]

maybe 191hp? thats 142ish kw.... which is about right!

thats sounds more realistic.

[iamhe77]

thats sounds more realistic.

+1

Dyno sheet pic?

Unless you have the full exhaust, high flowed turbo intake upgrade and an ECU such as HKS Fcon that came with your car from Japan, I just can't see 191awkw.

If your car did come with those mods... fair enough... although I would like to see more than 191 with that list

Edited July 23, 2009 by iamhe77

[joe rs250t]

+1

Dyno sheet pic?

Unless you have the full exhaust, high flowed turbo intake upgrade and an ECU such as HKS Fcon that came with your car from Japan, I just can't see 191awkw.

If your car did come with those mods... fair enough... although I would like to see more than 191 with that list

hi

dyno sheet is at work i will try to get pic onto computer, it definitly says 191,performance guy told me this was at the wheels, i would be

disapointed if it was 191 at the motor,i dont know bugger all about dyno testing so i hope he isnt taken the piss

i have emailed him to double check

his next sugestion is to install a HKS F CON thinga me watsit for tuneing,its f**king expensive so if anyone knows their stuff please advise

cheers

[zei20l]

it has to be horsepower, unless the dyno has been adjusted. because you canmake them say pretty much however much you want!

[iamhe77]

hi

dyno sheet is at work i will try to get pic onto computer, it definitly says 191,performance guy told me this was at the wheels, i would be

disapointed if it was 191 at the motor,i dont know bugger all about dyno testing so i hope he isnt taken the piss

i have emailed him to double check

his next sugestion is to install a HKS F CON thinga me watsit for tuneing,its f**king expensive so if anyone knows their stuff please advise

cheers

191 will be at the wheels, but it will be Horsepower, not Kilowatts. 191hp = 142awkw = ~212kw at the engine... so pretty normal.

All the Jap modded M35's have the FCON piggyback which is generally seen as one of the best, if not the best piggyback unit available... finding a tuner outside of Sydney or Perth is a problem though.

If you have a tuner nearby that tunes the FCON well, I say go with that depending on price. The eManage Ultimate is bloody good and a lot cheaper, or you could wait to see what happens with the stock ECU remap that a couple of forum members are working on.

Edited July 23, 2009 by iamhe77

[joe rs250t]

191 will be at the wheels, but it will be Horsepower, not Kilowatts. 191hp = 142awkw = ~212kw at the engine... so pretty normal.

All the Jap modded M35's have the FCON piggyback which is generally seen as one of the best, if not the best piggyback unit available... finding a tuner outside of Sydney or Perth is a problem though.

If you have a tuner nearby that tunes the FCON well, I say go with that depending on price. The eManage Ultimate is bloody good and a lot cheaper, or you could wait to see what happens with the stock ECU remap that a couple of forum members are working on.

hi

makes sense thanks

do you know what results come from FCON install

[iamhe77]

hi

makes sense thanks

do you know what results come from FCON install

Nope... Sorry.

I do know that with a VQ35DET you can get 450hp at all four wheels though...

With everything stock and a turbo back 3" exhaust, I would imagine something similar to what Scotty got with his eManage... ~170-180awkw (230-245hp at 4 wheels = 320-340hp at the flywheel).

Edited July 23, 2009 by iamhe77

[iamhe77]

hmm, just looked at what I typed... in old school terms... a 300+hp awd wagon doesn't sound half bad Make you feel good Scotty?

Edited July 23, 2009 by iamhe77