Rear Traction Arms

[_Ryan_]

I don't use them, I prefer the eccentric crush tube in the standard arms for the reasons I posted above. The KTA117 are a better solution for a road car than arms with spherical joints, but you probably won't like them that much if the wheel aligner gives you a bill for $700 for adjusting out the bump steer. Actually worse than that, would be getting a bill for $50 for a wheel alignment and then find you have huge bump steer problems and hence no traction for acceleration, braking or cornering. Which is worse, poor for lack of money or poor handling?

I guess I should point out that replacement bushes in the standard arms are legal and replacement arms aren't.

Cheers

Gary

Best to post the part number and whether it is noltec whiteline or whiteline whiteline for the future searchers thanks Gary... and for me

thanks,

Ryan.

and it will either be Traction or TruTrack setting it up.

[08r3308]

sorry to hijack the thread guys with my own questions

[nisskid]

with bushes , are they adjustable on car?

does the wheel hub need to come off for installing bushes?

nope and nope.

bushes need to be undone and taken out of the bracket to adjust them. main reason i dont like them.

hub bushes can be done on car, but it's much easier to take them off.

[cazman]

The problem with bushes is they bind up, as in the suspension arm is forcing against them and makes the suspension hard to move. This is the opposite of what you want in your car.

1 Example and source here

[Equinox]

That's what puts me off polyurethene bushes and I'm surprised it isn't more common knowledge. The stock bushing in the rear knuckle for my toe arm begins to bind up half way into my compression travel and anyone who has changed their own suspension will realise this instantly. This is the main reason I'm converting everything to rod ends and spherical bearings.

Oh by the way. Nice arms Cazman. Good pricing too. Any reason you recommend the AM QA1 rod ends over the CM series other than weight?

[_Ryan_]

gah i am not gonna rush this and get it done before DECA anymore... in my datto it was all custom arms, spherical joints, billet ends etc and it lived through some brutal shit, i would be more worried about my teins

Cazman PM me a price with the higher quality ends too 3142, wait time not an issue, and are all threads equal etc?

happy to be guinea pig for testing strength, but at the same time if its going to cause an accident i rather just run the whiteline....

[Luke_ENR34]

Ive got Ikeya traction arms in my 34 but no one in adelaide seems to know how to set them up correctly

[JMW]

Try Pedders at Ridgehaven Luke, they do the CTS drift car.

[Equinox]

Ive got Ikeya traction arms in my 34 but no one in adelaide seems to know how to set them up correctly

Make up a bump steer gauge in your garage and do it yourself man.

[Luke_ENR34]

How the hell do I do that? Lol

[phunky_monkey]

Never mind, questions answered above

[Sydneykid]

with bushes , are they adjustable on car?

Yes, for Whiteline Plus (nee Noltec)

No, for Whiteline Flat Out

That;s why I use Whiteline Plus

does the wheel hub need to come off for installing bushes?

No, the bushes go in the arms.

Yes, there are bushes in the hub and they can be replaced if you need more adjustment ie; rediculously low cars have too much negative camber to be fixed for road use with just the kits in the inners, so you can use them in the outers as well. Obviously in race cars we want to remove as much compliance as possible so I always replace the outers (in the hub) as well.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Best to post the part number and whether it is noltec whiteline or whiteline whiteline for the future searchers thanks Gary... and for me

Sorry I don't carry a pile of catalogues around with me all the time

and it will either be Traction or TruTrack setting it up.

Andrew and Ralph are good choices, you should also consider Centreline.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Ive got Ikeya traction arms in my 34 but no one in adelaide seems to know how to set them up correctly

Steve Cramp

Manta Racing Services Pty Ltd

(08) 8234 8688

Unit11

4 Deacon Ave

Richmond SA 5033

http://www.mantaracing.com.au/

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

The problem with bushes is they bind up, as in the suspension arm is forcing against them and makes the suspension hard to move. This is the opposite of what you want in your car.

1 Example and source here

Out of date, the better polyurethane bushes are internaly knurled to retain grease and provide smooth rotation for the crush tube.

That's what puts me off polyurethene bushes and I'm surprised it isn't more common knowledge. The stock bushing in the rear knuckle for my toe arm begins to bind up half way into my compression travel and anyone who has changed their own suspension will realise this instantly.

"stock bushing" is that polyurethane?

If so, you either have unknurled bushes or you haven't greased them enough?

This is the main reason I'm converting everything to rod ends and spherical bearings.

I hope you are up on the maintenance schedule, remove, clean and grease after every race meeting. Othwerwise they wear very fast, knock like crazy and allow uncontrolled movement and lock up binding. That's not going tight, that's 100% locked up. If you do any road driving I trust that you have dust seals on every joint, a few weeks of road grime and you will be looking for new sphericals.

Don't get me wrong, we use sphericals all the time in the Sports Sedans and the average service and replacement cost is over $1K per year. That's doing it on the cheap, the bill for sphericals for the 2 car V8Supercar team was over $5K per season. Sphericals workvery well if sized and specified correctly, maintained properly and replaced regularly, just make sure you're up to it.

Cheers

Gary

[siksII]

I currently have ~2 deg negative camber on the rear of my r33 due to lowering the car 1 inch.

Ive been deciding between arms with sphericals, arms with bushes(whiteline) or just bushes to reduce rear camber.

If I use camber arms and have the camber corrected to -1 degree, how will this affect my bump steer? Should I buy adjustable radius rods/bushes and attempt to have them adjusted or is it not worth it for that small of a change?

Cazman - do you make rear camber arms for r33s?

Any advise appreciated!

[Equinox]

"stock bushing" is that polyurethane?

If so, you either have unknurled bushes or you haven't greased them enough?

No that is a stock rubber bushing in the knuckle. From previous experience (with old polyurethane bushes) I was under the impression that replacing the knuckle bushes with polyurethane would be worse. I'll have to look into it more now. How often do they need to be greased? Don't you have to press them out to grease them?

I hope you are up on the maintenance schedule, remove, clean and grease after every race meeting. Otherwise they wear very fast, knock like crazy and allow uncontrolled movement and lock up binding. That's not going tight, that's 100% locked up. If you do any road driving I trust that you have dust seals on every joint, a few weeks of road grime and you will be looking for new sphericals.

I understand man. But yes every bearing does get checked over after every event and the car barely sees road work. What do you grease them with out of interest? I was under the impression that being a zero tolerance fit there would be no room for grease to do any work! Unless they're rooted. :

Edited August 4, 2009 by Equinox

[Sydneykid]

No that is a stock rubber bushing in the knuckle. From previous experience (with old polyurethane bushes) I was under the impression that replacing the knuckle bushes with polyurethane would be worse. I'll have to look into it more now. How often do they need to be greased? Don't you have to press them out to grease them?

I use moly grease. To lubricate them you don't have to remove the bush itself, just the crush tube. Tap, tap with hammer and punch or a squeeze in the vice with a suitable diameter socket as a pusher. What you are lubricating is the surface area of the bush where the crush tube rotates, not where the bush fits in the arm. I usually do the race cars once a year, but if they get sand trapped then I do it before the next meeting.

I understand man. But yes every bearing does get checked over after every event and the car barely sees road work. What do you grease them with out of interest? I was under the impression that being a zero tolerance fit there would be no room for grease to do any work! Unless they're rooted. :

Chrome molly grease again. From the Aurora rod end instructions;

Lubrication: A metal on metal bearing, when regularly misaligned or oscillated in operation, will require lubrication. A lightly loaded bearing may be run with minimal lubrication, relying on a boundary, or very thin, lubricant film. More heavily loaded, or frequently misaligned bearings require a film of lubricant between the ball and race, to prevent galling, or micro welding of the two surfaces. A sign of insufficient lubrication on a used metal on metal bearing is noticeable discoloration of the ball, either to black or brown, on the wear surfaces.

The big sphericals, for example the ones we use on the lower control arms, have grease nipples for inside out regreasing. Most of the suspension arm spherical bearings fall into the category of "more heavily loaded" as above.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

I currently have ~2 deg negative camber on the rear of my r33 due to lowering the car 1 inch.

Ive been deciding between arms with sphericals, arms with bushes(whiteline) or just bushes to reduce rear camber.

If I use camber arms and have the camber corrected to -1 degree, how will this affect my bump steer?

Enough for most people to notice the loss of traction.

Should I buy adjustable radius rods/bushes and attempt to have them adjusted or is it not worth it for that small of a change?

As per above, I would always suggest adjusting the upper control arms and traction rods in tandem.

Cheers

Gary

[nisskid]

Yes, for Whiteline Plus (nee Noltec)

No, for Whiteline Flat Out

That;s why I use Whiteline Plus

really? how do they work? i had the flat outs, put me off offset bushes for ever cos they were useless.