Will This Be A Decent Setup?

[brother_david]

Im doing a RB30/25 build and has been doing a fair bit of research lately but i would like to have your thoughts on my setup to be

Was thinking of changing the valves and cams to but everythings about economics these days!

RB30 Short block

RB25DET Head w/ VCT

CP Pistons 9.0:1 or ACL 8.5:1 pistons

Tomei Valvesprings

ACL Main and Rod bearing

Shotpeened rods (hopefully)

2 x Borg Warner turbos (550hp each)

Aftermarket fuelrail

Bosch 1680cc's topfeed injectors

2 x Walbro intank fuelpumps

Larger fuellines including return

Custombuilt plenum

Oilcooler

N1 Oilpump

Rebuilt sump with baffles

Probably forgotten something but ill add it later

I am thinking of running E85 therefore the large injectors. But it dont know what pistons to choose and what boost to aim for, running 9.0:1 gives a better grunt at lows but wont let me boost as high as i could with lower compression

What do you think?

Edited August 2, 2009 by brother_david

[shanef]

If your budget doesnt extend to atleast 50k then i would forget using such big turbo's.

You should have an aim of some sort before you start.

[Al]

As Shane has suggested.................

What is the aim for your project?

Or

What do you want to achieve/do with your car?

[unique1]

1100hp of turbos and stock shotpenned rods? i think either put some decent rods in it or change your turbo option to something smaller. I cant see everyones love for going twin turbos when its just twice as much stuff crammed in the bay and more money and the same end result as compared to a simple big single. I suppose saying twin turbo does sound better

[psi]

2 x walbro pumps are not likely to keep up with 1680cc injectors either..

There are enough tech'ed up guys on here to help you through the process if you keen to get to the truth.

spill the beans on your intended use so they can help you nut out the layout of parts required..

1100 hp of turbo's is going to be in need of seriously major support systems. Oil, pipes, coolers, fuel, clutch, drive shafts?? that list will go on for a bit!

I would consider a $50k budget as a good place to start. That doesn't cover screw ups, parts that dont fit, and breakages...

[brother_david]

Thanks for all your comments! Definitely good help on the way

For now im aming at about 700-800hp's at the fly. Reason for going with the large turbos is because i already have them laying around and im aming to go higher, say 1000hps, when my economics allow, with full head work (p & p, cams, valves etc etc) and more on the fuelside. I want more down low response rather then waiting for something to happen

As far as i've seen the stock rods can handle 700-800hp's and having them shotpeened should put me on the right side of the margins. These will be changed later on when aiming for the 1000hp's.

When it comes to engineering the piping all around, exhaustsystem, manifolds etc it wont be a problem as you can see from another build we've done, in the attached picture

Sound like i should invest in another fuel pump then, although i might be better off with a fuelcell and 3 x in-line Walbros.

Again, thanks for your help

Edited August 2, 2009 by brother_david

[GT-RZ]

Ok i'v seen a few good stories of stock rods taking a punish and living. R.I.P.S have a few good examples. What is your intended RPM? All good examples with stock rods utilise low RPM. If you want 8-9k RPM+ with them power figures forget about factory rods.

Building a potential 1000hp monster and using factory shot peened rods seems a little slack. Shotpeening can only help in hardening the outer skin and only proves of benefit on rods due to the resulting surface finish, the tensile strength of the rod remains unchanged. Dreaming to think otherwise.

I would hate to build such a car and skimp on little money for such a vital component to a high revving, high power machine. And clearly with turbo's that size you will want some revs up top becaser thats where your power will be living.

As for response i think a twin setup utilising 2x 550hp turbos is going to be sluggish of the line. Twins or single that size is drag car or dyno car application only IMO.

PS: Makes no sense to build an engine for 800hp then to rebuild it later on with aftermarket rods going for 1000HP, no sense at all. If your that short on cash that you are skimping on rods for now forget about an engine with this power.

[zebra]

Forget about the walbro pumps, and run 2 bosch 044's

[bubba]

I know of a single Bosch 044 (intank) supporting 580hp@hubs..

I got me some Spool rods which will be going in soon, for $750.. wasn't really worth doing anything to the stock rods.

[brother_david]

The intended RPM is set no higher then 7000, might go up to 7500, more then that and i would need to get me some other rods and some major work done to the head i guess. I know those turbos are a bit on the big side but since they both costed me less then 1000AUD's and both are rebuilt it was a bargain.

Ill stick with the Walbros as they have proven to work great so far, have heard alot of good about the Bosch's but since i've already got one Walbro i might aswell stick with them

Those Spool rods sounds like a good deal! If its that small cost then it sounds like i should eat noodles for a month and get me rods, would be a cheap guarantee to not be sending the stock ones in an orbit around the block Where did you get them from?

[R31Nismoid]

If you dont intend to go past 7000rpm, forget making any power.

You are going to need 9,000rpm+ to make any useable power for any reasonable amount of RPM.

By the time you make your target boost, you'll be changing gears with a 7,000rpm limit.

[zebra]

What are the turbos btw? Borg Waners are big bastards, so ill doubt they'll fit easily.

So let me get this right, you want 800+ HP, yet I see no mention of head porting or cams, You want to use standard rods, standard gearbox and diff etc and a rev limit of 7000?

Have a look at Guilt-toys threads, he made no more than 380rwkws with a standard head on E85, and plenty of others have hit that 500rwhp wall aswell with no head work.

[brother_david]

Ok so if i want to make ANY reasonable power at all i have to rev 9000+......

With the new rods i should be able to push the revlimit a bit higher then 7000 rpms.

The turbos are 2 Borg Warner S200's, known to be big but still have a reasonable spool, it will be tight but it wont be a to big of a hazzle

Must be a misunderstanding here though, i've never said 800+ with stock head and rods, would be crazytalk. I said 700-800 at the fly, ofcourse this is at tops and not a daily driver-tune, with shotpeened rods, but i've changed that to a/m rods to be sure that things keep together. The head is definitely a bottleneck but im still quite confident that it possible to get 700 at the fly, around 600-620 at the wheels, out of the stock head with a/m valvesprings, although it might not be the most effective way to get them. The stock gearbox has proven to handle atleast 650 at the wheels and im looking forward to test its limits, if it doesnt keep it up then ill get a Z32 box. The diff isnt stock.

Edited August 3, 2009 by brother_david

[shanef]

How good is ur tuner? That will be the key to how long this time bomb engine will survive.

Good luck but dont be suprised how much of a dog its going to be, at how short a time the engine is going to last, and at how much trouble you are going to have along the way.

[brother_david]

Thanks for your 'good luck' shanef

I've been down the road of hazzles earlier after having built acouple of engines/cars in my own company, nothing ever works out as easy as you want it to!

The tuner is myself along with two other guys in the company, we've had quite alot of experience with building and tuning engines lately, myself running nistune with good result, other then that we've tuned acouple of AEMs, PFCs and Autronics in different cars. For example the 2JZ-GTE engine in the pic above, running above the 700 mark, coming up to 1000 with 2 new turbos and the new head fitted.

Edited August 3, 2009 by brother_david

[Al]

Are you serious or just posting for shits and giggles????

Having 1100hp of turbos and stating "I want more down low response rather then waiting for something to happen" along with "when my economics allow" are the most laughable statements i have read in a looooooong time.

Not trying to be insulting, just waking you up to a little reality before you blow all your money on a project that;

a/ Will never acheive what you desire

or

b/ Will never be completed properly, due to a lack of funds

or

c/ Will not last long

This isn't the movies and F&F physics do not apply in the real world.

If you want response, use a pair of 300'ish hp turbos. If you want all out power, put aside $100K and don't expect it to be street driven or hit any usable boost in 1st or 2nd gears, unless you're using NOS to get it off the line and spooling.

[zebra]

Al - I think it will be both A and C

[R31Nismoid]

Ok so if i want to make ANY reasonable power at all i have to rev 9000+......

With the new rods i should be able to push the revlimit a bit higher then 7000 rpms.

So what if you put rods in there?

You still need a massive chunk of money spent everywhere else considering how hard you need to spin it...

There is about zero point in putting those turbos on there with your current setup, the only point i can see is to show people how NOT to put a setup together in all honesty.

Even for 800hp @ the fly, you are still NOT going to magically make boost at 4000rpm or anything reasonably sane... Even for that 'lowly' aim of 800hp @ the fly your setup lacks a lot of key area's.

But at the end of the day it sounds like you are someone who honestly has put little thought into this, and will go ahead with it anyway and think it's the best setup known to man.

[unique1]

the blunt fact is if you even mention the word "budget" or "cheaper" or something along those lines when building a setup aiming for anything over 600hp at the wheels then its just not gonna go well because you cannot afford to skimp on parts or it will cost you a damn sight more in the long run and will not be capable because something is holding you back. If your gonna skimp then save on something external atleast as the last thing you want is needing to pull the motor down to change something you couldnt do right the first time.

i think get rid of those turbos and buy something suitable for your goal and that will help a hell of alot to making the setup work better.

dont forgot an ati balancer atleast on the parts list if you are gonna rev it over 7k

honestly how much are you looking at spending on the entire setup?

Edited August 3, 2009 by unique1

[brother_david]

First off, Im sorry if i've come off alittle harsh! I blame the language barrieres since im Swedish.

R31Nismoid> Ill get a/m rods but why im so keen on going with those turbos is that itll cost me even more to get smaller ones and then after aprox. 4 months changing to bigger ones again but it really does sound like i should get my hands on some smaller turbos for the first stage of the setup! What do you recon i should be getting in addition to the setup in the first post and new rods to break the 700-800hp mark?

Unique1> Good point with the balancer, specially since the RB30 is over 20 years old by now, have been looking at ROSS metal jacket balancer When it comes to how much im planning to spend it should end up at about 50,000 SEK about 10k AUD not counting the block and turbos

Edited August 3, 2009 by brother_david