Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I purchased an lt16 microtech a few weeks ago and put it in last night. Got a mate that knows his stuff in regards to tuning them and did a road tune for a few hours and got it going pretty hard on 15psi with only about 10 degrees timing. Drove it around pretty hard doing this for about 3 hours and couldn't fault it. Got the afr's all perfect and car drove really well in all areas idle/cruise/wot. After the last bit of wot tuning i cruised on the highway at bout 80k for the 10 min trip home and then all of a sudden it started running on 4 cylinders. Pulled over couldn't find anything wrong with the wiring on the computer etc and was a bit confused. Put the standard computer back in and was no different so was relieved it wasn't wiring to the computer. Drove the last 2kms home at about 30kph Got it home and plugs 3 and 4 were still wet. The others weren't too bad. Then i looked at the tops of the coilpacks on 3 and 4 and they were a bit melted and no longer shoot spark if i pull them off when car is running. So obviously the ignitors in them have blown up or something but i'm not sure why??

I have since put some old stock coilpacks in 3 and 4 and car runs on 6 cylinders again fine. Drove a bit tonight with standard ecu and no dramas. I have the coilpack cover on all the time and it was a relatively cool night when the coilpacks blew by the way. The dwell cycle on the computer is 2.5ms so not like the coilpacks are charging for too long as that's what most imports run and it came with that on the base tune.

If plugs 3 and 4 fouled for some reason and i drove for another 2kms to get the car home could that cook the coilpacks? I wouldn't think so coz shouldn't the power just blast through it or earth back out?

I really have no idea why they blew up as surely driving fairly hard for 3 hours would have been harder on them than highway cruising.. Just want to try and sus it before i purchase a new set of splitfires and prevent it possibly happening again when i put the computer back in.

Steve

I have a plug and play that's how i can change back to the standard computer. Yes i have series 2 coils and internal ignitors the splitfire coilpack number is dis005 had these in the car for about 50 000kms and never had a problem with them till the other night.

I thought 2.5ms would have been perfect for them?? Wouldn't anything under 3ms be okay? I'm not sure what it could be because the only setting in the computer that really has to do with them power/heat wise is the dwell and the coils get their power directly from the computer.

What I have seen some people do is run the X6 ignitor box combined with S2 coils. That will give you melted coils. I noticed you have a S2, so you should be running the inbuilt ignitor's on the S2 splitfires.

How has it been wired? did you get it with a plug & play conversion loom, or has it been wired into the stock loom?

Let me know what that model number is off the coils, and if your running a plug & play loom. Dwell cycle of 2.5 shouldn't kill them, there just being belted with excessive current I believe.

Edited by James_03

I recently had a problem with a intermitant miss happing for about 2-3 min while driving and then it would disappear. After changing coilpacks, checking pulgs, wiring etc it turned out to be the ignitor. I changed it and my problem was solved.

As you may already know that the s1 rb26 have a external ignitor that can be changed but with yours being a s2 33, changing the coilpacks is your answer.

The only reason why i could see yours failing would be that they are overheating while your giving it a hard time. I would leave the center rocker cover out to disperse the heat better.

I picked up a set of yellow jacket coilpacks from Paul @ Performance Wise. $370/set

http://www.performance-wise.com/

Yellow jackets are half the price of splitfires and i recommended them as it did make my car run much smoother and rev better.

Hope you find your answer!

Hmm interesting that its 3 and 4 as in a wasteged spark setup these will be the paried coils. From what I've seen even on the supposed 6 igntion outputs is that the microtech still seem to run wasteged spark. You could check this with a snap on timing light - (Just check the rpm and see if its double the actual rpm). Its time to scope the ignition drive and see whats happening. Dont expet to see the dwell time to exactly matched the software dwell time but it should be within +/- 0.2ms. I dont know whether the skylines are a positive or negative trigger but you may find that the oppisite of what it should be is occuring on cyls 3 and 4 causing incorrect dwell control (acually from the r33 transistor diagrams it looks like a positive trigger). IF you have a 2 channel scope compare the microtech ignition drive of say coil 1 vs coil 3 and see what you get.

Hmmm i'm starting to think that myself. I went for a blat this afternoon for a few hours trying to sus out any other niggly problems and got home and opened the bonnet and there is silicon on the side of 3 and 4 coilpacks just near the plug. Just pulled number 3 out to inspect then and it's got a tiny little crack on the side of the coil and i presume 4 would have the same!

Perhaps i should change the dwell timing from 2.5 to lower?

At 3000rpm the duty cycle on the coils with a wasted spark setup at 2.5ms dwell is 12.5%, as in 12.5% of the time the coils are on and 87.5% the coils are off. Cant see that this amount of dwell wasted spark or not is going to cause them to fry.

There is a possiblility that timing on those two cylinders is incorrect as well!

Except it is still double the recharge time(or less than half the discharge/cooling time than stock. AFAIcan remember the stock dwell is 2.2ms, and reduces slightly at idle

A race car with an Rb26 will average 6000rpm at the track and they dont melt coils with about the same dwell/recharge rate as a wasted spark system at 3000rpm.

You got issues and I dont reckon its dwell!! If the dwell is only 2.5ms.

Hmmm i'm starting to think that myself. I went for a blat this afternoon for a few hours trying to sus out any other niggly problems and got home and opened the bonnet and there is silicon on the side of 3 and 4 coilpacks just near the plug. Just pulled number 3 out to inspect then and it's got a tiny little crack on the side of the coil and i presume 4 would have the same!

Perhaps i should change the dwell timing from 2.5 to lower?

hmmm yeah i know PM-R33 uses an lt12 and his dwell is 2.5ms and has no dramas. Ahh i don't know what it could be. Might be time to give rxengineering from microtech a call and see if he knows anything. Something has me thinking it might be something fairly simple that maybe just wasn't setup quite right..

So they want me to send the computer back to them for a looksie so i'm probably going to do that...

So the computer controls all the feed to the coilpacks right... and rob82 u were saying with a wasted spark setup.. 1 and 2.. 3 and 4.. 5 and 6.. ? So would that lead you to believe that there's something wrong with the 3 and 4 driver and send the computer back to check?? Coz there's nothing else that it could really be?

Anyones opinions?

So they want me to send the computer back to them for a looksie so i'm probably going to do that...

So the computer controls all the feed to the coilpacks right... and rob82 u were saying with a wasted spark setup.. 1 and 2.. 3 and 4.. 5 and 6.. ? So would that lead you to believe that there's something wrong with the 3 and 4 driver and send the computer back to check?? Coz there's nothing else that it could really be?

Anyones opinions?

The ECU pulses a ground trigger to the coils in order to fire them. You have 3 terminals on the coils usually, 12+, Negative, Trigger. The coils don't ground out via the ECU, as that would kill it. Instead the negative trigger from the ECU is responsible for opening the ground to that particular coil. So to put it simply, the ECU is just flicking an on/off switch inside the coils, then the coil grounds out via the common ground that they are all using.

What are the condition of the other coils? Are they showing any signs of heat damage or is it just 3/4?

One thing you could do to test, is remove the CAS and get someone to spin it around with IGN on. Remove the plugs from all the coils packs, put the multimeter on say CYL 2 and measure the current output from number 2 when it fires.

Then do the same for plug number 4, check what the current output is when it fires and compare. Keep all the results from that test, then plug the stock ECU back in and do the same thing again. Also check the trigger wire output between cyl 2 and 4 then compare for both ECU's.

This should tell you if the trigger on the microtech has too much current, and also if the issue lies between just the 3 and 4 driver on the microtech.

The problem should show on the muti between the good/bad coils, if there is one. I think what you *MAY* have ran into, is an incompatibility between the 16 and the integrated ignitors with the S2 coils.

Post up on the Microtech EFI forums too, there's a couple of guys on there that are quite good.

Edited by James_03

Yeah i posted up there. Was talking to jon from rxengineering as well and he thinks there's something sus with the driver for ignition 3 and 4 and recommended to send it back. Think this has also had a drama on my plugin board as well because two of the pins seem to have melted and merged.. Don't remember if it was like this to start but it looks a bit sus. Hopefully it gets fixed under warranty as i have used it for less than about 5 hours total and i believe something was sus with the driver to begin with. Microtech will tell me if there's anything up with it soon enough. Will let you know the results incase anyone else has the same drama!

Drove around all day with standard computer in and the cracks on the coilpacks on 3 and 4 didn't change so defo seems something up with the computer. All the other coilpacks are perfect i checked them many many times.

For the record i think the microtech runs the car beautifully while it is going!

Steve

So they want me to send the computer back to them for a looksie so i'm probably going to do that...

So the computer controls all the feed to the coilpacks right... and rob82 u were saying with a wasted spark setup.. 1 and 2.. 3 and 4.. 5 and 6.. ? So would that lead you to believe that there's something wrong with the 3 and 4 driver and send the computer back to check?? Coz there's nothing else that it could really be?

Anyones opinions?

I'm pretty sure the LT12's have 6 igntion drivers however for some reason and I can only comment on the lt12's I've seen that they run wasted spark. So even if you wire in to 6 drivers you only get 3 - so they probably just bridge them internally meaning that cylinders 1 - 6 , 2 - 5 and 3 - 4 fire at the same time(ie 1 cylinder is on compression the other on exhuast stroke).

The way most ecus work is to power 1 side of the coil with the negative side of the coil going back to the ecu. So the coil is energised when the igntion driver grounds the coil for x amount of time, with x being the dwell on the coil. The coils in skylines however have an igntion feed, ground and trigger. The trigger dependig upon the coil can be negative or positive and for skylines I cant remember if its a positive or negative.

To me it sounds like the drivers for cylinders 3-4 are oppisite to the other drivers meaning that instead of having 12.5% on time at 3000rpm you have 87.5% on time - scary!!!

  • 2 weeks later...

RESOLVED:

Sent computer to microtech.. They said computer is fine but the dwell was set to time based and it should be cycle based so they changed the setting for me. Blamed us for changing it however we never touched the dwell so i believe it was like that from the start but who knows. But anyway problem solved no more cooking coilpacks. What a pain in the arse for about 2 clicks! $60 bucks including return delivery = nothing. Although i woulda liked 6 splitfires instead of the 4 i have now!

Steve.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • You have found the problem. The wire from the switch to the HB is shorted to earth. Now you have to physically find it and replace it. It won't be the switch, although following the steps above (and yes, where you ask, that is the light switch on the RHS of the binnacle) will rule it out for sure. Or not, if perhaps the switch has melted. But there's no route to earth inside the switch, so I can't see how it would.
    • I did read your post, a few times actually.    Done. Followed this step. [Negative probe should be on the cars chassis. Positive on the wire.]   Did this partially.. now that im reading this over, i only unplugged the LED lights. [Start as said above by unplugging everything (unplug the lights, and switches.] When you are talking about the switch, you're talking about the knob thing on the right side in the drivers seat right? If so, i need to take that apart?  [Now at the switch, there is a wire from the fuse, to the switch, so out your positive on that terminal. It should read open circuit. If it reads something, especially a stupid low value, the short is somewhere between the fuse and the switch.] At this point are you referring to the connector by the headlights?  [If that's fine, now put the positive probe on the wire that goes to the headlight (at the switch plug). If it reads stupid low, the fault is from the switch, to the headlight.] Did this. I can confirm that the LED lights aren't the issue [Another quick test, is take the whole LED light setup from the left, and plug it into the right side, does it still blow the fuse? If you put the right hand side led light setup on the left hand side wiring, does the left hand side wiring now blow?  If the blowing fuse swaps from right to left doing this, your LED lights are the issue.]
    • Hey was wondering if you ended up installing the R33 GTR speed sensor - I found one too and wanted to confirm it's a direct swap into the R34 6 speed?
    • After 23 years of owning a Skyline, finally had the latch go.  Followed this guide,  works like a dream again. Great Guide 👍
    • Hi all,   I’ve got the biggest lot of problems with my R33 GTS-T   It was a freshly rebuilt 25th anniversary RB25DET (plastic cas, neo cams) probably 6 years ago now   The engine was running so well but I fkd up badly and trusted someone I’d known for 10 years that was well known around Plazmaman for his welding and fab work. I added a lovely photo of some of his previous work. Not sure why my car was worked on by whoever did this shit     I’m normally someone who would never open myself up to something like this, I still can’t believe I did it. Trusting him literally fkd it all up for me. Everything has been a struggle, like it’s almost been 6 years that’s how much I’ve just on and off been trying to work it all out.    All I wanted was a car that danced down low, like full boost from around 3~3500rpm to redline, don’t really care what power it puts down (if it ever does) but I just wanted it to be quick to get on it.    He recommended the turbo to get, I picked Hypergear but he told me to get the front 4” with a T4 and 0.68 rear housing.    I was expecting all these beautiful welds, tidy fab work and paid for it to be ready to go to a tuner when I got it back.    I got a car back that was an absolute mess, I actually couldn’t believe it was my car anymore. I don’t think you could even call what he did welds, they’re disgusting.    So I stripped everything he touched off it and with every bolt I loosened it just got worse and worse.    I covered it and literally built and finished another car in the meantime but now it’s getting to the point where I really want my Skyline back.   Its a struggle because I paid him to do all this shit because I didn’t know how to and now I’ve had to try and figure it all out omg    Please excuse the bird shit horrible welds, I’ve got my show pony car and am so beyond dealing with this car I don’t even really care at this point.    If someone told me about what he did to my car I wouldn’t have believed them but it happened to me. It was unbelievable. He went missing, my car went missing, it came back missing parts, the straight af chassis rails bore the scars of being dragged up a trailer backwards, even the sandwich plate was bent. Everything was leaking and open to whatever fell into it, rounded off/ missing bolts, power steering oil and coolant everywhere, no gaskets, parts stolen off it, even managed to damage the sump pan.   Promised me he’d finish the car, knew what it meant to me, I paid him thousands and thousands just for him to trash it. He told me he was fully licensed and insured, come to find out he’d cancelled his ABN, so obviously no insurance. I had laid up insurance on the car and would’ve been covered but I was scared they would’ve written it off or because the business was no longer trading I’d still be liable.    He was supposed to:  New fully custom mild steam pipe exhaust manifold with turbo location moved from factory position to high forward mount. (I don’t know if it is a mild steam pipe, I’ve got a funny feeling the waste gate isn’t in a very good position and I don’t think the outlets off each cylinder are equal) 4” custom stainless steel dump with external gate (he re-plumbed it) Cut and shut OEM intake manifold with throttle reposition (I ended up doing the throttle reposition) Box in pod filter (left out) New 100cel catalytic converter (pretty sure it’s there but unsure if it’s 100cel) Front mount intercooler piping fabricated to suit (all smashed up and rusty holes where he was supposed to make it look standard where fmic piping passes through. I don’t even think my front bar is going to fit 🙄) Custom 5” intake pipe from pod to turbo (didn’t come with it so had to do something to make it work with the Z32 afm)   Engine: Full cylinder head service & machining  Brand new valves Precision upgraded spring kit Engine block honed New bearings  New piston rings  New ARP conrod bolt kit New ARP head studs Cometic head gasket VRS kit   ATR43SS2 ball bearing turbo 0.68 rear housing  Turbosmart 45mm external wastegate (got delivered to the fab bloke, I’ve got no idea what spring is in it, I’m assuming the one that came pre installed) Walbro 260 fuel pump  Nismo 740cc injectors (tested to 880) Spitfire coil packs GCG FMIC RB25DET manual 5 speed 4:11 rear diff   I’ve got an Apexi Power FC in it atm, I was hoping to just get it to operating temp to make sure everything was okay before towing to a tuner but it’s over-fuelling too much. I don’t think that’s going to happen so i think I’m going to get either a Link G4 or Haltech for it. What do you guys recommend? I can’t work out the power FC so just gonna give up on that one     It’s got an exhaust leak coming from somewhere I can’t see 🙄    The fuel pressure was steady but now it like drops from 40 to 20psi randomly (noticed this yesterday)    I’ll attach pics of the shit he put on my car and the engine bay now as it sits    I really just need some help, I need a tuner in Sydney I can trust, I’d like to be with the car while it’s being tuned if possible, I know it looks terrible but unfortunately I’ve just got to put up with it for now and fix the cosmetic stuff later   Do you guys think the manifolds are going to be okay? Or do I throw the exhaust manifold and try again?   I don’t even think these combinations are going to work tbh   I know everything I fitted was rated to be able to take at least 400kW but most rated higher    If you’ve gotten this far I really really appreciate it 🙏 I don’t mind if you trash me or the car, I made a rookie error and f**k I’ve paid for it. As you’ll see 🙄  
×
×
  • Create New...