Wiring Up Track Only Car Options

[unique1]

hey guys i am keen on any info on what people are using for fuseboxes and wiring loom wise for track only cars that are starting the wiring from scratch. I dont want to run the factory loom as 99% of the stuff isnt being used anymore, neither is most of the stuff in the fusebox and its ugly and too big.

Ive seen info on the painless wiring looms but they seem abit pricey considering what u get and i'd prefer to buy the fusebox seperately and then the wiring.

Has anyone got any links or info of good places to get hold of aftermarket fuseboxes for a reasonable price.

heres a few ive found so far...

these are marine fuse panels, but they look alot neater than the usual Narva options ive seen, unsure on costs as yet.

http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/products/5026

narva usual common one, not a fan of these due to the exposed wires and the need for every connection to have a positive wire making it messy. These are cheap but nasty imho.

This narva option is neater and can be mounted on a panel without ugly wiring stickin out the sides but the wires behind are only about 20cm long so u have to make a join on every single wire. I think these are around the $120 mark from memory

what others are there?

im also keen on switch panels and switches in general without paying $180 for a starter switch on a glossy peice of plastic like some of them go for. Also wiring loom wire, and mil spec plug options for the firewall as used on heavy duty machinery with bulkhead fitting for the engine loom coming through the firewall. For plugs i reccomend the deutsch (sp?) ones as they are by far the best available, though pretty pricey its definately worth it in the long run.

any input welcome im sure others are interested in the options also

ill add more as i research and get more time

[Duncan]

Great thread!

I've decided to do the wiring (other than engine loom of course) from scratch for the nugget a while back and have been working through it. I have done a fair bit of re-wiring within standard loom in my production car but this is the first time I've tried for the whole car.

My basic idea in this is

1/ reliability

2/ easy to troubleshoot

3/ light

4/ cheap

So based on that I was happy to run extra wires and place things together to support 1 and 2 over 3 and 4.

Fuse box - I also wanted a reliable way to distribute the power as well as providing fuses, so I am going to use these.

2 controlled by ignition switch, 1 controlled by headlight switch. Will have to work on keeping the connections tight and reliable since they are only spade connectors.

I also grabbed a couple of panel mount fuse holders for anything that turns out to need a fuse elsewhere. I've seen lots of cars where people don't know where the fuses are or what they do I am trying to avoid this by putting them all in 1 place, so hoping not to need these

I used the last one you posted in my prod car and it was fine (it also distributes power 2x5 circuits which was handy)

Distribution box - I'm using these in 2 places where I have a single power input and heaps of outputs.

Also using these in common earth locations

they are great for trouble shooting because you can check earth for everything and each individual circuit

Circuit breaker - I added one of these 100A circuit breaker in the "everything but starter motor" circuit.

Safe and easy to reset. Right near battery to minimise unprotected wire run. Unfortunately no protection on the wire to the starter motor and alternator from battey +

Kill switch and relay - A high current physical cut out switch on battery + which will cut everything including line to the starter motor.

Also in the everything else power line I have put in a 70A normally open relay which is triggered by an external switch, this gives me an external switch which kills everything as required by regs, but without requiring a cable to run from the a piller exterior to the main kill switch. Switch is pretty ugly (no idea what they are meant to be used for lol) but it is panel mount, pushes in to turn off (easy to use in a rush), and has an LED indicator to show when it is on

Firewall - I am using one of these to run the main power to starter and alternator safely through the firewall

Will just use normal grommet for the engine loom but I am going to move the hole in the firewall to the top/middle right behind the motor to keep the wiring safe inside the car instead of in the wheel wells.

External connector - Race cars batteries often go flat and need a jump, need regular connection to chargers, and equally its handy to pull power temporarily from them sometimes. I've added a connector like this directly to the battery.

Jumper leads suck in race cars, too easy to accidently earth the + as you are trying to thread it past the cage/seats/whatever and blow something up

Connectors - I'm using a mix of stuff atm. Plugs stolen from factory looms (I cut up a few), some of those narva nylon connectors (1/2/4/6/8 wire options but very large), and I grabbed 2 military style 10 pin connectors to giev a try. Will just mix and match these I think.

Relays - all next to each other on stackable relay holders so they are easy to find and troubleshoot.Only 5 in the car kill, ignition, ECU, injector, fuel pump (double pole), the switches are all high amp (20+) so I am going to run direct power where possible for simplicity. Might need 1 more relay for 4wd I think haven't got that far yet.

Switch panel - Just building this myself...may not be cheaper than a premade one though, switches and lights add up. The main thing is I can shape and mount the swtich panel any way/where I want. eg Brad's ignition panel is between the roll cage and the roof in front of the drivers head, great location (out of the way, easy to see, wasted space otherwise).

Using this type of switch because screw on terminals are more reliable, and the dual pole single throw setup means I can run multiple seperate circuits (eg pos switched and earth switched, or easily connect multiple pos switched circuits) through 1 switch. Add they support up to 20A directly which is OK for almost everything in the car. I ended up getting these from ebay $20 for 5....Narva wanted $25ea for ones with spade connectors not screw...

Warning Lights - I'm using these ones unfortunately.

Neil has these in the radical and they are rubbish....the back of the light falls out under vibration because the wires are heavy and the casing is cheap. there are probably better options out there, would love to hear. I've got about 10 lights for various circuits.

Connections - one other thing I found, even done properly stuff fails really easily in race use as you smash the car around. Crimp connectors are fine (there's an argument its better than solder which hardens the wire), but you must use heat shrink on the outside of the cable to the connector so that it takes the pressure and movement instead of the wire. And use good quality crimpers.

Not sure how much of this will change as I move ahead but that's where I am now.

Would love to hear thoughts from anyone who's done the whole thing though I know there's a few guys on here that have.

[unique1]

damnn i hate computers i just wrote a massive reply and the computer stuffed up and deleted it!!!!

ok this is the short version as i cant be bothered writing it again...

where are those fuse panels available from and how much duncan?

whats the best way to bring the main thick power cable from the battery to the starter while needing a junction in the dash area for the switch panel etc? one of those 100amp circuit breakers do the job, or wont it handle the current draw on cranking?

the best place to buy wire in various colours and thin like factory stuff?

those bulkhead fittings for the battery cable through firewall look like they would be exposed and possibly dangerous if u touch it with a spanner or something? do u make some sort of cover over them?

i am moving the hole for the engine loom also to directly behind the wiring loom mounted above the fuel rail area, but am looking into the plug in connectors from big machinery to save having to try and seal up the hole and make engine in and out easier. They are around the $250 mark i have been informed but not verified as yet. I am also having my coils (aftermarket) mounted in the car and leads come out the firewall directly behind the engine.

Do u have any sort of diagrams drawn up at this stage Duncan?

i'll be wiring up these things so far...

headlights

tailights

indicators

ecu

cdi

battery cut off switch

switch panel

racepak dash

alternator

starter motor

power windows and mirrors (until i can find non power options)

ign switch

fuel pumps

attessa

i am thinking about keeping the Atessa, fuel pumps and tailights relays and fuses all in the boot on a seperate panel at this stage to aviod running wires back and forth.

thats about all for the moment

Edited August 9, 2009 by unique1

[urtwhistle]

hey, the lights that you mentioned.......... i would look into some 1 who makes industrial control cabinets.

[Boss-zilla]

Agree with Duncan, Great Thread.

Duncan you have done alot of work on this and will give others good ideas. I was speaking to Dane last year when he was looking into the painless kits (http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Painless-Wiring-Harnesses-t225555.html&hl=painless+wiring) about doing a "off the shelf" replacement kit for track cars. While I have not got any further (lost my job at xmas = no money to play with) I am still planning to do it.

I am looking at using the Deutsch bulk head connectors to run through the fire walls for the looms and power. They are a bit on the $$$ side but from what I am told it is what the WRC guys use with great success (the metal type).

A good fuse box is the only thing I have not been able to find.

As for the wiring I plan on using teflon coated wiring. This wiring can handle more current than standard so you can reduce the size used on most circuits saving even more weight, and the overall cost differance is small.

[urtwhistle]

as i mentioned above, I had these small controll box's sitting there waiting to be packed. thought they would be a good example.

In perth you could get these lights from RS-COMPONENTS, NUPHASE OR NHP. i'm not sure about the eastern states. they may be reasonably priced if you buy them with a trade order.

regards

Chris

[GTRNUR]

That marine grade fuse block looks good.

Ive had issues with the narva fuse blocks before. Running a thermo fan off a circuit has on occasion melted the plastic of the block without the fuse blowing. This happened due to a failing thermo fan. I would have preferred the fuse had just blown though.

Also these spade connection fuse blocks are easy to hook up, but the connection itself is not very reliable and over time a little movement combined with current flow tends to open up the spade connection. THen you get arcing, heat and melting again. I solder everything now. Even if its crimped first. Then heat shrink it and forget about it.

Chasing wiring faults in custom wired cars is a nightmare.

[unique1]

Great info so far, i agree on the blueseas marine fuse box, they do look heaps better quality compared to the other options so far, i still think there has to be something more suitable but yet to find it

Im also one to always crimp and solder as well for safety plus put on some decent heatshrink, as u mention dodgy connections are the worst thing to diagnose.

Deutsch connectors for the bulkhead sound like a great option, i am definately keen on something similiar for the main engine loom to make life easier, i dont mind paying if its gonna be a good product, and from what ive seen of deutsch stuff they are top quality.

I am not really at the stage of buying everything yet so its going to be abit of a slow process for the moment but ill keep putting up info and what ive bought as i go. Got to finish the rollcage work off first and then ill be into it, though some research now will save alot of time later when it comes to doing it.

I did lay out all the looms (r32 gtr) the other night and start tracing what ATTESSA wires need to be hooked up once i cut them from the main loom. Its actually gonna be alot easier than i thought. Without using abs it cuts alot of the rubbish out too, hopefully no abs doesnt cause issues with the 4wd like i read on the forums from some people.

Edited August 12, 2009 by unique1

[Rowdyr32]

If you want a easy to trouble shoot loom why not use circuit breakers instead of fuses. I hate fuses with a passion expecially when in a hurry.

If your not using that many, they are easy to mount and label and can be position nicely and easily on a custom made aluminium panel with your lights/fuse together. Think they are only a few $ each from Jaycar.

They are screw connection mainly. We only use circuit breakers in all the helicopters we maintain except for the main busses.

There is a place down here called Connector World and they sell all types of great connectors. Solder or crimpped pin type. I pin to 100 pin connectors in metal and plastic. Not really that expensive either and change an average looking job into a million $ one.

Can take some pics of some dash's/interiors to give an idea of how easy and neat it is.

[unique1]

interesting rowdy, so a circuit breaker as in what duncan posted above or something smaller? Pics would be great, im keen for any ideas that will make life easier and look neater. All my wiring will be exposed and visable pretty much so the neater the better as im pretty damn fussy lol

[Rowdyr32]

Way smaller than tha above ones. These are fairly cheap examples compared to what we use but the same workings.

They come in many different amp ratings.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SF2252

[Duncan]

the one I posted is designed to run heaps of gear (100A) but there are many smaller ones including either auto or manual reset ones that fit in a standard fuse holder, and panel mount ones where you just press a button to reset.

interesting setups like this (would do this next time, I bought the other stuff first)

check jaycar.com.au or http://www.ktcables.com.au/circuit_breakers.aspx

still 5a fuse is 80c...I just carry a couple of spares of each type.

Thanks Chris I'll look into those lights too.

Hey Gareth does connector world have a website? would love some more options there

[Duncan]

where are those fuse panels available from and how much duncan?

I got those from narva...can't remember the exact price. like gtrnur said I think they might be a reliability issue over time, if so I will convert back to those pre-wired ones I posted first.

whats the best way to bring the main thick power cable from the battery to the starter while needing a junction in the dash area for the switch panel etc? one of those 100amp circuit breakers do the job, or wont it handle the current draw on cranking?

don't know about "best"....my main junction will be 2 outputs from the kill switch as shown below - 1 to starter/alternator and 1 via the 100A circuit breaker to the rest of the car

the best place to buy wire in various colours and thin like factory stuff?

good question....I asked over here but haven't followed up yet http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Su...ir-t269273.html. Also, I have stripped a couple of old looms and have miles of factory wire in lengths up to 1m, will use a lot of this for short stuff under the dash, but I'll run multicore stuff to places like attessa pumps and front and rear chasis/lights etc.

I will look into buying a couple of spools of different multicores and splitting them up if there are a few of us genuinely interested in lengths.

those bulkhead fittings for the battery cable through firewall look like they would be exposed and possibly dangerous if u touch it with a spanner or something? do u make some sort of cover over them?

agreed.....my friends at BMW have provided inspiration....I will try this for a number of the big current points, I hate exposed + it is sooooo easy to make a mistake.

Do u have any sort of diagrams drawn up at this stage Duncan?

kind of, this is the main circuit.

still working through a lot of the rest but the main concept is there I think. the rest will run off 3 of those fuse blocks I posted above

i'll be wiring up these things so far...

headlights, tailights, indicators, ecu, cdi, battery cut off switch, switch panel, racepak dash, alternator, starter motor, power windows and mirrors (until i can find non power options), ign switch, fuel pumps, attessa

Yep all those things except the windows and mirrors for me. Plus

thermo fan

rear water pump for water to air intercooler

engine water pump (slot for future, using mechanical for now)

windscreen wiper (have to be able to race in the rain, can't leave a gtr in the pits when its wet )

power steering pump (up to 50A apparently)

boost controller

gauges, control units and dash lights

i am thinking about keeping the Atessa, fuel pumps and tailights relays and fuses all in the boot on a seperate panel at this stage to aviod running wires back and forth.

thats about all for the moment

I'm relocating ECU, ATTESSA-CU, dataloggers etc to a panel at the passenger firewall. Dash and gauges at the drivers side. Switches up on roof next to roll cage. I figure this way 99% of the car's wiring will be at the firewall.

These are all just my thoughts, I've never done a full car let alone race it for a year or 2 and see what is reliable......very interested in other ideas/experiences/thoughts

[DJRIFT]

Ok i though i might jump in as this is one topic i can add detailed info into. For a change.

I do this sort of thing for a living, im an auto sparky and on the side myself and 2 other auto sparkys do full on car rewires right down to the custom haltech, motech, and numerous ignition systems there are.

Its always a hard one to decide. most people dont see the value in spending $$$$ to get a race car rewired or do they realise the outcome of using crappy products. I have fixed of replaced little things like dodgy glass fuse holders only days out from events like targa tas one important circuits like teratrips.

Myself and the 2 others have race car. i only have a few pics of my car as i rarely like to do anything eletrical to my own car. the other 2 have a dirt rally car and between us we have decided in most cases the best way to wire up race cars that still utilise most factory things ie. rally cars is to just strip the standard loom down. we do this for a few reasons.

you can utilise all the standard plugs that 80% of the time you cant get.

you cant buy small enough wiring in enough wire colours easily.

the weight of replacing a factory loom with 2.5mm or 3mm wire gives no weight advantage. and often the factory wiring is better.

This will also be the case with SAV MANs tarmac rally car as we will be stripping down the factory loom but also moving a lot of the components. after pulling all his loom out we found that the fuse boxes are the heaviest parts which we will change but still connect the factory loom to. most of the r32 loom can be stripped out and tossed in the bin with no troubles at all.

For a circuit only car its a bit different as most people run very basic accessories so it doesnt take much to wire them up.

For the best trouble shooting you have to fuse every thing individually. you can buy resettable circuit breakers that fit into blade fuse holders like the ones shown. if there is a short it will pop and you simply push it to reset it yourself. this may save frustration in blowing and replacing fuses.

below is 2 pics of the switching side of my car. thus far its basic as stuff was only added as necessary. i have retained factory head lights wipers and indicator switches but these will soon be replaced as i will be spacing my seat back to a point i cant reach the factory switches.

the RnD on the stuff i have used is as follows. i find glare and sunlight to be a pain in the ass big time on a circuit so Key warning lights lights have to be mounted hight and covered from the sun. in the first pick you can see a red pilot light in amounts the gauges (far right) this is the Oil PSI light and it has a 10w globe so it is really bright. if this thing comes on during the day it gets your attention quick smart. in thoes gauges i also have a fuel PSI light and that has a built in warning light and buzzer. i am a very big fan of gauges with warning lights as i find on the circuit i am to concentrating on every thing around be so i never check the gauges i just wait for them to flash at me. this bog pilot light may not look pretty but it is the most robust type you will find in the automotive range.

The pilot lights in the centre console also have globes in them as i have previously no had a good run with the LED versions and they are not bright enough. the ones in the centre are for non essential things like hand brake and fuel level low indicators. another example of the ease of using the stock loom as all these pilot lights can be tapped into the old dash wiring. these lights are good but they are pretty easy to pull apart meaning thay will fall apart.

the switches i love to death. they have a LED in the end to show you that there is power going through the switch. and to let you know its on. these are good switches but they are still not 100% perfect. i have had one LED fail in not much time working. that may be a one off thoe.

like all of these products leave enough wiring and tie the wires going to a component off well so that the weight of the wires and loom is not on the connection of the component.

now im going to just add some comments to duncans post as it has heaps of detail.

Great thread!

I've decided to do the wiring (other than engine loom of course) from scratch for the nugget a while back and have been working through it. I have done a fair bit of re-wiring within standard loom in my production car but this is the first time I've tried for the whole car.

My basic idea in this is

1/ reliability

2/ easy to troubleshoot

3/ light

4/ cheap

So based on that I was happy to run extra wires and place things together to support 1 and 2 over 3 and 4.

Fuse box - I also wanted a reliable way to distribute the power as well as providing fuses, so I am going to use these.

2 controlled by ignition switch, 1 controlled by headlight switch. Will have to work on keeping the connections tight and reliable since they are only spade connectors. if you use the right sort of crimp on terminals than this should not be an issue. the last few track cars we have done we have used these and they are a grate product. some of them have been funning for a few years now so thats proof enough. [/color]

I also grabbed a couple of panel mount fuse holders for anything that turns out to need a fuse elsewhere. I've seen lots of cars where people don't know where the fuses are or what they do I am trying to avoid this by putting them all in 1 place, so hoping not to need these

I used the last one you posted in my prod car and it was fine (it also distributes power 2x5 circuits which was handy)Hella do a better style than the 2 narva options. the hella has push on terminals but they come in from underneath. we use these over the narva options all the time.

Distribution box - I'm using these in 2 places where I have a single power input and heaps of outputs.

Also using these in common earth locations

they are great for trouble shooting because you can check earth for everything and each individual circuit

Circuit breaker - I added one of these 100A circuit breaker in the "everything but starter motor" circuit.

Safe and easy to reset. Right near battery to minimise unprotected wire run. Unfortunately no protection on the wire to the starter motor and alternator from battey + we have used these before and they are a good opting but the sizing of the studs for the cable to bolt to isnt realy deigned for a constant 100A, they are designed more so for car audio where 100A is only ever seen at peak.

Kill switch and relay - A high current physical cut out switch on battery + which will cut everything including line to the starter motor.

Also in the everything else power line I have put in a 70A normally open relay which is triggered by an external switch, this gives me an external switch which kills everything as required by regs, but without requiring a cable to run from the a piller exterior to the main kill switch. Switch is pretty ugly (no idea what they are meant to be used for lol) but it is panel mount, pushes in to turn off (easy to use in a rush), and has an LED indicator to show when it is on your best off to use a heavy duty solenoid like what is used on winches to isolate everything as 70A will be pushing it and these solenoids can handle well over 100A and for long periods of time. the key with current rating is more so the time a component will be on and the heat that will produce.

Firewall - I am using one of these to run the main power to starter and alternator safely through the firewall best bet here is to buy a screw in type wiring grommet used in industrial electronis. you drill a hole bolt it in, then feed the wire in and then bolt another nut that clamps a rubber o ring over it. ill get a pic and show you. its a bit like a garden hose fitting. we always un the main batter cable through firewalls to the starter this way.

Will just use normal grommet for the engine loom but I am going to move the hole in the firewall to the top/middle right behind the motor to keep the wiring safe inside the car instead of in the wheel wells. if you can use the original wiring loom grommet thay are always the best option.

External connector - Race cars batteries often go flat and need a jump, need regular connection to chargers, and equally its handy to pull power temporarily from them sometimes. I've added a connector like this directly to the battery.

Jumper leads suck in race cars, too easy to accidently earth the + as you are trying to thread it past the cage/seats/whatever and blow something up

Connectors - I'm using a mix of stuff atm. Plugs stolen from factory looms (I cut up a few), some of those narva nylon connectors (1/2/4/6/8 wire options but very large), and I grabbed 2 military style 10 pin connectors to giev a try. Will just mix and match these I think.

Relays - all next to each other on stackable relay holders so they are easy to find and troubleshoot.Only 5 in the car kill, ignition, ECU, injector, fuel pump (double pole), the switches are all high amp (20+) so I am going to run direct power where possible for simplicity. Might need 1 more relay for 4wd I think haven't got that far yet. these are the best option as the wiring loom plugs into them and not onto the relay making fault finding or singling out a circuit very easy.

Switch panel - Just building this myself...may not be cheaper than a premade one though, switches and lights add up. The main thing is I can shape and mount the swtich panel any way/where I want. eg Brad's ignition panel is between the roll cage and the roof in front of the drivers head, great location (out of the way, easy to see, wasted space otherwise).

Using this type of switch because screw on terminals are more reliable, and the dual pole single throw setup means I can run multiple seperate circuits (eg pos switched and earth switched, or easily connect multiple pos switched circuits) through 1 switch. Add they support up to 20A directly which is OK for almost everything in the car. I ended up getting these from ebay $20 for 5....Narva wanted $25ea for ones with spade connectors not screw...

Warning Lights - I'm using these ones unfortunately.

Neil has these in the radical and they are rubbish....the back of the light falls out under vibration because the wires are heavy and the casing is cheap. there are probably better options out there, would love to hear. I've got about 10 lights for various circuits.

Connections - one other thing I found, even done properly stuff fails really easily in race use as you smash the car around. Crimp connectors are fine (there's an argument its better than solder which hardens the wire), but you must use heat shrink on the outside of the cable to the connector so that it takes the pressure and movement instead of the wire. And use good quality crimpers.

all new cars and even the wiring in 1989 skylines only use bras crimp joiners to splice wires. in all the engine management books they say never to solder as it will brake especially around the vibrating engine. but we still solder most stuff just not engine looms. best bet is to crimp and solder your spade terminals and try to avoid splices as that helps ten fold when trouble shooting not having to track down a wire that then splits into 10 wires. try to take all common wires off the one point.

Not sure how much of this will change as I move ahead but that's where I am now.

Would love to hear thoughts from anyone who's done the whole thing though I know there's a few guys on here that have.

one last ting duncan is that it is a must that you put a fuse link in the alternator circuit to protect form reverse polarity if noting elce. theres no better way to fry your alternator

althoe im not really handy with adding picture links if you are after a product i amy be able to take a pic and put it on here. i also have access to most of the products listed and can probably help you out with cheaper pricing on some parts. im also not i a position to take pictures of the work we have done or how we do it as i cant get access to the cars we have done. and ive never thought it would be worth taking pics of wires.

hope that helps im not trying to tell you how to do it just adding advice.

Edited August 13, 2009 by DJRIFT

[fatz]

yea im looking into this

it involves me drink at kyles while he works it out

at least this way it wont f**k up

Edited August 13, 2009 by fatz

[unique1]

top info once again, i really appreciate all the ideas Djrift, i wouldnt mind a pic of the firewall bulkhead fitting you mention to get the starter main wire through safely. I might look into using the stock loom actually and just shorten the wires and rip out what i dont need, though i cant stand dealing with the sticky old electrical tape goo over all of them

Ill have a good look at that wiring diagram too Duncan when i get a chance. I will also run the wipers too i just forgot them on my list. Moving the attessa to the front will be alot of work, i cant see the point really? keep the weight at the back, they are front heavy enough as it is plus 95% of the attessa loom is ready to go except about 4-5 wires that need to goto the ecu and battery.

where abouts in the car are you mounting the battery Duncan? mines in the boot on the passenger side.

I got told by a friend about a shop to get hold of those Blueseas marine fuse boxes i posted in the first post too, plus they sell lots of other switches and wire, etc

http://www.the12voltshop.com

they are in Perth but still could be handy to some people.

[Duncan]

brilliant info thanks damo...prepare for the dumb questions as punishment for owning up to knowing what you're talking about

[Duncan]

There is a place down here called Connector World and they sell all types of great connectors. Solder or crimpped pin type. I pin to 100 pin connectors in metal and plastic. Not really that expensive either and change an average looking job into a million $ one.

good call...I got a copy of their cattledog today, millions of choices of pins like you've said. I've pdf-ed it and posted it here for reference

http://www.hgeconsulting.com.au/connector_world.pdf

looks like a bastard to solder than many wires into a connector tho

[tacker]

I was lazy i just brought a painless 12 circuit harness for the new car opened it up last night and it is as it says, well looks that way very painless

[DJRIFT]

Hey Duncan and anyone elce. im more than happy to help with even the smallest questions as this site and particular members have helped my projects along nicely over the past 3 years.

The Deutsch plugs are by far the best plugs to use for almost everything bar the main battery and earth circuits. we have used many different types of weather proof and non weather proof plug sets and brands and if i could i would use them all the time. cost thoe doesnt allow it at work.

I would be able to supply a Deutsch plug kit that comes with a host of different sized plugs (pine wise) and the special crimp tool.

Deutsch plugs are the most common used plug on earth moving and heavy machinery. CAT and other brands have all their plugs supplied to them by Deutsch. plus they are small and light.

thoes other pugs you have listed duncan would be good for going through a sealed fire wall but they are designed to be put on things that do limited movement and i would be concerned that that with a ruff ride they would brake the solder join off the back of them.

i still think rubber grommets are the bast way through a solid point in a car as the wiring needs to be able to move. when it is tight in one spot and loose in another that is where a brake will occur.