Coil Update!

[r33-sky]

Sounds like your car needs a good tune.

[N-DAWG]

the tops had popped off?

Pretty much.

In this pic the one in the middle is good, the two on either side are dead:

Good coilpack:

Dead coilpack:

I lost three in one go that night.. had to get towed home as she barely made it up the tilt-tray tow truck.

[mad082]

if your plugs are 120,000kms old then that is definately the problem. even irridiums won't last that long and still perform well. just got and grab a set of copper plugs for about $4 each and throw them in. you will know straight away if it has solved the problem or not, and if it doesn't then you haven't wasted much money.

[MissR34]

Coil packs 100000000000000000% it's been covered a million zillion billion times, R34's specifically have shit coils that ALWAYS die. A quick diagnostic with a paperclip will show error 21 from the ECU

Never replace with OEM coils as they will just shit themselves down the track. They can look shiny and new but the transistors inside suffer from wire seperation at engine temperature and gradually disable the coil pack even in fairly new cars (my last R34 did it when it was 3 years old....yes back in 2002)

Buy some splitfires, do not pass go, do not collect $200 and forget about the issue ever again

+1 x million

[mad082]

don't listen to them, get plugs first. they are ignoring the fact that you think your plugs are 120,000kms old, which even if you let iridium plugs run for their quoted life span of 100,000kms they are still 20,000kms overdue. and given that most iridium plugs don't last the full life of 100,000kms before playing up, it's pretty safe to say that it is your problem. i had iridiums worn out after 20,000kms in my gts-t.

now as cara said above, how can the plugs spark if the coil is playing up? well how can the spark plugs spark if they are playing up? if they are covered in carbon you will find that they will missfire. and to take a page out of your book cara, here is something copied from the NGK website

Carbon Fouling

Carbon fouling is the most common spark plug related failure, but is not a spark plug fault. Carbon deposits are conductive, and as they accumulate along the insulator nose they reduce the insulation resistance of the spark plug. As electricity always takes the path of least resistance a misfire may occur if a significant amount of carbon deposits accumulate. A spark will not form as electricity can track along the conductive carbon deposits to the metal shell (as shown in red below) rather than forming a spark across the electrode gap which has a very high resistance.

now the carbon deposits could be caused by many things. in this case though i would most likely say that they are caused simply because the plug is worn and isn't able to ignite all the fuel. as the plugs wear the gap gets slightly bigger until a point where, no matter good your coils are, the spark isn't able to arc accross the now larger gap and finds an easier route to take.

and since plugs are much cheaper than coils, it is very much worthwhile doing them first. and since you think they are 120,000kms old then even with new coils they wouldn't last much longer anyway.

i should add that i am not saying that there isn't a chance it is the coils, just saying that i sure as hell wouldn't be buying new coils because a set of really old plugs are causing a missfire without trying the option that is more than likely the issue and costs quite a few hundred dollars less and will more than likely need to be done even with new coils anyway.

[666DAN]

Plugs don't cause the check engine light to come on, he will have error 21 logged in the ECU, every R34 loses it's coil packs....it's an accepted fact, much like the sky is blue.

Just trying to save him dicking around with plugs when we alll know it's the coils. I've run copper plugs under silly boost for 40,000kms and still never even got close to losing a cylinder like when a pack shits itself

don't listen to them, get plugs first. they are ignoring the fact that you think your plugs are 120,000kms old, which even if you let iridium plugs run for their quoted life span of 100,000kms they are still 20,000kms overdue. and given that most iridium plugs don't last the full life of 100,000kms before playing up, it's pretty safe to say that it is your problem. i had iridiums worn out after 20,000kms in my gts-t.

now as cara said above, how can the plugs spark if the coil is playing up? well how can the spark plugs spark if they are playing up? if they are covered in carbon you will find that they will missfire. and to take a page out of your book cara, here is something copied from the NGK website

now the carbon deposits could be caused by many things. in this case though i would most likely say that they are caused simply because the plug is worn and isn't able to ignite all the fuel. as the plugs wear the gap gets slightly bigger until a point where, no matter good your coils are, the spark isn't able to arc accross the now larger gap and finds an easier route to take.

and since plugs are much cheaper than coils, it is very much worthwhile doing them first. and since you think they are 120,000kms old then even with new coils they wouldn't last much longer anyway.

i should add that i am not saying that there isn't a chance it is the coils, just saying that i sure as hell wouldn't be buying new coils because a set of really old plugs are causing a missfire without trying the option that is more than likely the issue and costs quite a few hundred dollars less and will more than likely need to be done even with new coils anyway.

[bozodos]

he should still eliminate the possibility first though.

Iridiums lasted 80000km in my ol VN with no dramas FYI, pity the plugs in my R32 need changing every ~10000km due to carbon fouling does make a big difference when changed though.

[MissR34]

Plugs don't cause the check engine light to come on, he will have error 21 logged in the ECU, every R34 loses it's coil packs....it's an accepted fact, much like the sky is blue.

Just trying to save him dicking around with plugs when we alll know it's the coils. I've run copper plugs under silly boost for 40,000kms and still never even got close to losing a cylinder like when a pack shits itself

my engine light came on when all 3 of my coilpacks busted.......

and mad082, thanks for the info.

[AYW550]

Plugs don't cause the check engine light to come on, he will have error 21 logged in the ECU, every R34 loses it's coil packs....it's an accepted fact, much like the sky is blue.

Just trying to save him dicking around with plugs when we alll know it's the coils. I've run copper plugs under silly boost for 40,000kms and still never even got close to losing a cylinder like when a pack shits itself

actually, according to my tuner, a problem with any part of the primary ignition system, including spark plugs, could cause that error code to come on,,,,

either way, my new plugs have been ordered and ill try that first, another interresting fact is that if it was one or two bad coils i would expect to have had one or two totaly ruined spark plugs, however all my spark plugs looked exactly the same

if i still have the problem then all i have to do is take the intake back off and chuck some new coils in

[AYW550]

What is your oil consumption?

I had the same problem as you described. I also burnt 5L of 40w-70 oil only driving 500km so keep checking your dipstick to see how your oil is going. (i doubt it will be this bad as the person that owned the skyline before me killed the engine). Especialy if you have black spark plugs, its the number one sign of them burning oil and although your engine is young mine was dead at 150,000km so theres a chance its a internal problem.

i use the same oil as ndawg, 10w60 castrol edge full synthetic for the last 3-4 oil changes, but i never have to top up btw 5000km intervals, infact the last time i went to change my oil after 5000km it was still relitively nice and brown considering it just did 5000km, so i added a wee bit to top it up and then let it do another couple of thousand kms before i changed it,

and even with this engine issue, my oil consumption hasnt changed noticably

[Turk1]

Allen key

socket set

i think that's it.

Take off the intake, inc pipe up to the throttle body then allen key take off the coilpack cover (Nissan 2500 plate) then socket takes off blots for coilpacks, pull the coilpack out then socket take out the plugs.

Do one at a time!

Bed time for me now...

Ok well I came around to checking out my plugs today...any ideas on how I take of the piping for the throttle body hahaha, I unscrewed the coilpack cover and could barely see under becuase the piping wouldnt let me lol...I sat there looking at it blankly to see how I can take it off haha but no luck on what i was doing

[AYW550]

Ok well I came around to checking out my plugs today...any ideas on how I take of the piping for the throttle body hahaha, I unscrewed the coilpack cover and could barely see under becuase the piping wouldnt let me lol...I sat there looking at it blankly to see how I can take it off haha but no luck on what i was doing

mine wasnt too hard, just had to get up the nerve to start pulling hoses off, was about 10 hoses and 5 electrical connections,,,,good idea to take a picture first!

[666DAN]

actually, according to my tuner, a problem with any part of the primary ignition system, including spark plugs, could cause that error code to come on,,,,

either way, my new plugs have been ordered and ill try that first, another interresting fact is that if it was one or two bad coils i would expect to have had one or two totaly ruined spark plugs, however all my spark plugs looked exactly the same

if i still have the problem then all i have to do is take the intake back off and chuck some new coils in

Unfortunately you're tuner isn't as familiar with the R34 electrical system as me, I've owned R34's for over 7 years and know the electrical/ECU systems backwards.

The CEL for error 21 is only triggered once the expected current drain isn't seen by the ECU, this can only occur when the firing transistor doesn't activate (as it's f**ked) leading to a dwell current that doesn't drop. A spark plug, fouled, missing, shorted etc etc can't replicate this event and will NEVER show the CEL

Your tuner should have pulled the codes and seen it was a 'non-consecutive firing signal detected' he should also know that every R34 under the sun has this issue at some point.

My advice is do both the plugs and the coils as you'll just save time and frustration of fitting new plugs, finding it starts playing up a week down the track. Then you have to order some coil packs and then put them in risking damage to nice delicate gaskets on the intake that have to keep coming on and off.

[Turk1]

mine wasnt too hard, just had to get up the nerve to start pulling hoses off, was about 10 hoses and 5 electrical connections,,,,good idea to take a picture first!

Sounds like a bit of a mission lol, not what was coming to my head...from what i saw there was some nuts/bolts involved haha...would there be a significant difference between the 33 and 34?

[dori34]

they could die a simple death (without any sign) or a fatal one (like NDAWGS) and start smoking up & clearly its melted at the tops.

does it always happen or is it intermittent?

[666DAN]

Yep that's why I still didn't trust the updates that were meant to elliminate the coil frying, for the sake of installing 6 zener diodes for <$3 it's definately good insurance.

Pretty much.

In this pic the one in the middle is good, the two on either side are dead:

Good coilpack:

Dead coilpack:

I lost three in one go that night.. had to get towed home as she barely made it up the tilt-tray tow truck.

[666DAN]

they could die a simple death (without any sign) or a fatal one (like NDAWGS) and start smoking up & clearly its melted at the tops.

does it always happen or is it intermittent?

The e-manage killed Nates packs, the e-manage sends a constant voltage to the coil packs AND ignition pulses. So as the voltage drops between pulses (but not to zero as it should) the current starts to increase to maintain the wattage, this burns out the packs explosively. It's the same problem with RX-8's and S15's...or any internal transistor coil-pack really.

[dori34]

oh okay

well none has died in my car yet, using a EMU

[central coast person]

Sounds like a bit of a mission lol, not what was coming to my head...from what i saw there was some nuts/bolts involved haha...would there be a significant difference between the 33 and 34?

The r34 engine is rb25de NEO

Its a completely different way in taking off the plugs, they dont have to worry about a intake pipe sitting on top everything.

1) Take the airbox out or pod filter.

2) Take off the Air flow meter and put it away somewhere so it cant be damaged.

3) There should be a hose clap that is clamping the intake pipe around the throttle body, that comes of with a philips head and it loosens the pipe so it can be pulled off the throttle body. There are also a few blots i think that keep the pipe stable so undo those to pull it out.

4) Allen key unscrews 8 screws (by memory) that allow you to take the cover off and it will reveal 6 coilpacks

5) socket set takes the blots off each coilpack then they simply come out by pulling on coilpack as they have rubber seals

6) socket takes spark plug out

7) if sparkplug us fouled get some dielectric grease to clean them (found at all car shops, supercheap ETC ETC)

8) repeat step 5-7 making sure you do 1 cylinder at a time to save you the mess.

AYW550 - if your car only burns a few drops and your using 10w-60 then its where it should be in life. Its just a sligltly thicker oil than the 10w-40 to compensate for inevitable engine wear. If the plugs have never been changed, then they have had 120,000km of oil burn on them ....... seriously try those new plugs. If it was the coils your going to need new plugs anyway so just try the plugs first that way if it isn't them you have the plugs already there waiting for new coils if it ends up being coils.

[AYW550]

The r34 engine is rb25de NEO

Its a completely different way in taking off the plugs, they dont have to worry about a intake pipe sitting on top everything.

1) Take the airbox out or pod filter.

2) Take off the Air flow meter and put it away somewhere so it cant be damaged.

3) There should be a hose clap that is clamping the intake pipe around the throttle body, that comes of with a philips head and it loosens the pipe so it can be pulled off the throttle body. There are also a few blots i think that keep the pipe stable so undo those to pull it out.

4) Allen key unscrews 8 screws (by memory) that allow you to take the cover off and it will reveal 6 coilpacks

5) socket set takes the blots off each coilpack then they simply come out by pulling on coilpack as they have rubber seals

6) socket takes spark plug out

7) if sparkplug us fouled get some dielectric grease to clean them (found at all car shops, supercheap ETC ETC)

8) repeat step 5-7 making sure you do 1 cylinder at a time to save you the mess.

AYW550 - if your car only burns a few drops and your using 10w-60 then its where it should be in life. Its just a sligltly thicker oil than the 10w-40 to compensate for inevitable engine wear. If the plugs have never been changed, then they have had 120,000km of oil burn on them ....... seriously try those new plugs. If it was the coils your going to need new plugs anyway so just try the plugs first that way if it isn't them you have the plugs already there waiting for new coils if it ends up being coils.

deffinately, thanks for the support