N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

[Duncan]

.....I can see there is a lot of banter about N1, I agree any pump will fail due to serious abuse, but how often do you hear of any Greddy, Jun, Tomei, Nismo etc pumps just randomly failing even when not abused...

Well this is the random old internet not some carefully researched study.

How many std oil pumps are there (90+%), how many failed, and what sort of life did the ones that fail have?

How many n1 oil pumps out there, how many failed? I bet it is 5% or less of motors out there

How many of the other aftermarket ones....1%???

How many people run dry sumps instead.....2%

I reckon its no surprise you don't hear of the other aftermarket ones breaking....there are stuff all of them out there, and not everyone likes admitting they have had a terminal problem with an expensive motor.....oil pump can easily cost more than the rest of the motor.

What's the bet the people that kill a first motor with std pump are more likely to be using the motor hard, and these people then go to n1 pumps, treat them harder than normal, and they break?

Or how many n1 pump failures are due to un-noticed bends in the crank from the first engine blow up that was not repaired or replaced? Or twisted block that was not tunnel bored?

Or how many n1 pump failures are due to crap running through them (this was my problem) due to some other issue in the motor?

Despite this thread going for pages, I bet less than 3-5 people have first hand experience with a broken n1 pump.

[Angus Smart]

your right Duncan, but i'd say there may be a few more n1 pumps out there that people have just replaced on their stock motors as a cheap fix.

it is a fairly cheap thing to do to the motor, and often you'll get them on cars from japan without knowing it.

driving my car around for years i thought i had a n1 pump as i have nice pressure.. apon engine failure after boost abuse i found that it was infact a jun pump

[Angus Smart]

your right Duncan, but i'd say there may be a few more n1 pumps out there that people have just replaced on their stock motors as a cheap fix.

it is a fairly cheap thing to do to the motor, and often you'll get them on cars from japan without knowing it.

driving my car around for years i thou

[bubba]

A thought occured to me when looking at my crank collar.. what is the clearance between the collar and the oil pump drive? would it be better to have something machined to suit the specific oil pump you are going to use so as to get the best fit?

Is anybody going to address this question?

Someone else raised the same thing when asking whether it was only on the thrust side and could it be a clearance issue..

[Marko R1]

Ok, thanks Paul, let me know.

Just out of curiosity, assuming money wasn't a consideration, would you pick the tomei over any other ?

So the Tomei uses a Saw tooth design ? Anyone got any nice pics to show of one open ?

Also for the guru's..... whats the disadvantage of the saw tooth design ?? I ask as i assume the newer gerotor design is better somehow since nissan swapped to them. (from a factory motor point of view not racing)

Gary

hey gary - you should go straight to the horses mouth & speak to jim from crd about the nitto pump...he has had over 20 years experience with the gtr & has been exposed to countless pumps (n1, tomei, jun, stock). he will give you the low down in about 5min

[Beer Baron]

I wonder how many guys using N1 pumps are using an N1 balancer too? according to the guys in japan that know their shit they always tell me if using N1 pump, switch to N1 balancer too.

[bubba]

I wonder how many guys using N1 pumps are using an N1 balancer too? according to the guys in japan that know their shit they always tell me if using N1 pump, switch to N1 balancer too.

As opposed to stock or aftermarket?

[Beer Baron]

as opposed to re-using the standard one. an ATI or similar is better again.

[bubba]

Phew.. got my 1000hp ATI balancer sitting here and was hoping I didn't have to turf it

Any thoughts on machining a collar to suit the exact oil pump you're going to use? what sort of clearance would one use?

[r33_racer]

Phew.. got my 1000hp ATI balancer sitting here and was hoping I didn't have to turf it

Any thoughts on machining a collar to suit the exact oil pump you're going to use? what sort of clearance would one use?

Depends on expansion rates of crank and drive...if there would be any....but for a damper to crank snout, a .001 thou interference fit is ideal.

Internally, the better the fit the more contact area you have and obviously a more even distribution of load on the gear....would be good if someone had a collar and gear to measure so we can see whats what, then go from there.

Edited August 19, 2009 by r33_racer

[bubba]

Depends on expansion rates of crank and drive...if there would be any....but for a damper to crank snout, a .001 thou interference fit is ideal.

Internally, the better the fit the more contact area you have and obviously a more even distribution of load on the gear....would be good if someone had a collar and gear to measure so we can see whats what, then go from there.

I will have my engine apart very soon as new rods are going in and it's going to the machinist to be balanced. I have a collar to go in but when it's all apart I shall mic up the oil pump drive and the collar aswell as the stock drive on the crank and report back.

I'll also take some photos of the oil pump, it's one of the older N1 pumps.

Would be nice if a few people could mic up any oil pumps they have lying around so we can see what sort of tolerances the factory is machining to.

Edited August 19, 2009 by bubba

[Rezlo]

Despite this thread going for pages, I bet less than 3-5 people have first hand experience with a broken n1 pump.

I have found around 20 cases already all apearing to be "for no particular reason" over a few other international GTR forums.

I think material testing will tell a lot.

[Swiper the Fox]

Phew.. got my 1000hp ATI balancer sitting here and was hoping I didn't have to turf it

Any thoughts on machining a collar to suit the exact oil pump you're going to use? what sort of clearance would one use?

turf it...turf it...into an express post bag and send it to my place. ill send you a 600hp one and 4 Edith Cowan's to tempt you.

[shanef]

turf it...turf it...into an express post bag and send it to my place. ill send you a 600hp one and 4 Edith Cowan's to tempt you.

when ur buying ur fuel system from www.summitracing.com just throw in the 1000p balancer too paul!

[bubba]

turf it...turf it...into an express post bag and send it to my place. ill send you a 600hp one and 4 Edith Cowan's to tempt you.

Hah! dreaming

when ur buying ur fuel system from www.summitracing.com just throw in the 1000p balancer too paul!

I got mine from summitracing.. actually got 3x of them and some autometer gauges then had to pay customs $440 to get my box of bits!

So in the end I don't think I actually saved any money over buying them locally

Edited August 19, 2009 by bubba

[shanef]

Hah! dreaming

I got mine from summitracing.. actually got 3x of them and some autometer gauges then had to pay customs $440 to get my box of bits!

So in the end I don't think I actually saved any money over buying them locally

yeh thats the only problem, uve gotta keep the single order below 1k or u get assed raped with the stupid taxes, and only because they are automotive parts we can't claim free trading (f**k you government)

[bubba]

Yeah I know about the import duties but we've managed to sneak through many times before without getting stung.. or do we have an agreement with Japan?

2.5k order from Japan (2-way + other bits) - not stung.

3.5k turbos from Japan - not stung.

HKS 2.8 kit from Japan - not stung.

2k order from US - stung

Anyway, back on topic.. should hopefully have my engine apart this weekend or early next week, will inspect N1 pump and report back accordingly.

Edited August 19, 2009 by bubba

[shanef]

Yeah I know about the import duties but we've managed to sneak through many times before without getting stung.. or do we have an agreement with Japan?

2.5k order from Japan (2-way + other bits) - not stung.

3.5k turbos from Japan - not stung.

HKS 2.8 kit from Japan - not stung.

2k order from US - stung

Anyway, back on topic.. should hopefully have my engine apart this weekend or early next week, will inspect N1 pump and report back accordingly.

before we get back on topic...

anything coming from summit is automatically picked out at customs, i rang the head of customs finding out why we get stung and they said in conversation that anything from summit is picked out straight away. their boxes stand out pretty well so its hard to miss them

k, back to it...

[bubba]

Bastards!!

[dano4127]

where is the cheapest place in aust to get an ATI? I have family in the US might be able to send a few over if its worth it