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N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

Rezlo

By Rezlo,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Marko R1
Marko R1

fuel cut explains the massive flames that gtr's shoot out on the limiter - most gtr's u will see in japan run this way. so my guess is that fuel cut is acceptable but not sure if its better or worse t

zebra
zebra

errr....might want to re-read what you just wrote Marko. No fuel = no flames

JonnoHR31
JonnoHR31

same shit for an oil pump, engine is still stopping and starting in the same way. the only difference would be between different ecu's, for example, a stocker rb30e ecu cuts fuel to all cylinders when

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proengines Rising Star

proengines

Posted
Posted
I can assure you yes...they are made here on earth.

What is your concern with the pumps high crack-off pressure?

Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

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Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted

i just had a call from jim @ crd...we can finally put this to rest!

jim was heavily involved in the development of what he calls "the ultimate pump" for the rb, some compare it to tomei, jun etc...from this they decided to release a 2010 version which now includes a billet backing plate, the main reason for this is to give it a point of difference from the japanese competitors. he said its like buying a newer version commodore i.e. change the bumpers, headlights etc. simple aesthetic updates to pick up the anti. mechanically, it does not improve the car what so ever which brings me to the next point...he couldn't justify pulling out a 2009 version nitto pump & replacing it with a 2010 as only the headlights have changed so to speak. there is no advantage nor a requirement to run a billet backing plate BUT it sets itself apart from the rest & its another tick in the box, makes sense to me.

100's customers are using the cast backing plate with not 1 failure to date - perfect record!

the pump is competitively priced which also makes it the clear winner!

lastly, the nitto oil pump is MADE IN AUSTRALIA & as jim quotes, "we have some of the best engineers in the world, just look at what else is made here for these cars: gear sets & ecu's"

we even have the best tuner here in australia :banana:

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CRD Proficient

CRD

Posted
Posted
the cast plate ones are fine...relax greg...ive used quite a few of them. Ill find out the reason for the change of you like. The answer...evolution...Nitto are constantly reviewing their product range to stay well ahead of the competitors offerings. Anything that can be seen to be improved will be upgraded/updated.

Paul, your spot on, it is in the quest for the ultimate product and evolution.

Not quite bumper bars and headlights as Marko put it, but I guess its a simpler way of trying to explain it in a non technical kind of way.

Hope this helps.

Jim@

TeamCRD

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Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

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dazmo Proficient

dazmo

Posted
Posted
ill pick mine up from you when i come back up in a few weeks...keen to come out to the track again?

I will make sure I have one ready to go for you mate. Will be keen to come out to the track again and lend a bit of a hand if needed mate. Maybe next year you should bring up the RED R track car up this way and we can throw a few corners in and both get out there for a bit of fun :D. Will chat to you soon mate.

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Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted
I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

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shanef Grand Master

shanef

Posted
Posted
i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

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waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

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Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)
Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Edited by DiRTgarage
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dazmo Proficient

dazmo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

Edited by dazmo
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Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

pressure is just the resistance to the flow of oil...simple stuff really.

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waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Yeah thats where i was headed with that

I wanted to just watch them explain it

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shanef Grand Master

shanef

Posted
Posted
he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

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Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

It will only play a part if the engine has enough restriction as the pump on bypass actually depends on the restriction to the flow. if i build an engine with large clearances and no oil gallery restrictor and set the rev limit at around 8000rpm do you think the oil pressure would be enough for the pump to bypass at 120psi...only if the owner is silly enough to rev the tits off it when the oil is cold would it see over 7 bar.

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Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted

i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems :(

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waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems :(

Remember oil pressure does not come for free

Back when I was racing formula ford we spent ages getting the oil pressure just right to much and you were wasting hp

You need just enough pressure to stop the metal touching, and its not actual pressure that does that. 120 psi is not going to keep a con rod bearing touching a crank journal

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