N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

[Swiper the Fox]

im starting to question myself

i bought a nitto oil pump and now find out dirt shed recomends them

ill find out if i can return it

lol

Be careful Pete...next you will be installing a Vi-PEC and removing 4th and 5th gears from your gearbox.

[dazmo]

DRY SUMP FOR THE WIN

[Swiper the Fox]

DRY SUMP FOR THE WIN

ill pick mine up from you when i come back up in a few weeks...keen to come out to the track again?

[proengines]

I can assure you yes...they are made here on earth.

What is your concern with the pumps high crack-off pressure?

Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

[Marko R1]

i just had a call from jim @ crd...we can finally put this to rest!

jim was heavily involved in the development of what he calls "the ultimate pump" for the rb, some compare it to tomei, jun etc...from this they decided to release a 2010 version which now includes a billet backing plate, the main reason for this is to give it a point of difference from the japanese competitors. he said its like buying a newer version commodore i.e. change the bumpers, headlights etc. simple aesthetic updates to pick up the anti. mechanically, it does not improve the car what so ever which brings me to the next point...he couldn't justify pulling out a 2009 version nitto pump & replacing it with a 2010 as only the headlights have changed so to speak. there is no advantage nor a requirement to run a billet backing plate BUT it sets itself apart from the rest & its another tick in the box, makes sense to me.

100's customers are using the cast backing plate with not 1 failure to date - perfect record!

the pump is competitively priced which also makes it the clear winner!

lastly, the nitto oil pump is MADE IN AUSTRALIA & as jim quotes, "we have some of the best engineers in the world, just look at what else is made here for these cars: gear sets & ecu's"

we even have the best tuner here in australia

[CRD]

the cast plate ones are fine...relax greg...ive used quite a few of them. Ill find out the reason for the change of you like. The answer...evolution...Nitto are constantly reviewing their product range to stay well ahead of the competitors offerings. Anything that can be seen to be improved will be upgraded/updated.

Paul, your spot on, it is in the quest for the ultimate product and evolution.

Not quite bumper bars and headlights as Marko put it, but I guess its a simpler way of trying to explain it in a non technical kind of way.

Hope this helps.

Jim@

TeamCRD

[Swiper the Fox]

Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

[dazmo]

ill pick mine up from you when i come back up in a few weeks...keen to come out to the track again?

I will make sure I have one ready to go for you mate. Will be keen to come out to the track again and lend a bit of a hand if needed mate. Maybe next year you should bring up the RED R track car up this way and we can throw a few corners in and both get out there for a bit of fun . Will chat to you soon mate.

[Marko R1]

I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

[shanef]

i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

[waxracing]

Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

[Swiper the Fox]

Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Edited November 1, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[dazmo]

Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

Edited November 1, 2009 by dazmo

[Swiper the Fox]

Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

pressure is just the resistance to the flow of oil...simple stuff really.

[waxracing]

he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Yeah thats where i was headed with that

I wanted to just watch them explain it

[shanef]

he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

[Swiper the Fox]

yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

It will only play a part if the engine has enough restriction as the pump on bypass actually depends on the restriction to the flow. if i build an engine with large clearances and no oil gallery restrictor and set the rev limit at around 8000rpm do you think the oil pressure would be enough for the pump to bypass at 120psi...only if the owner is silly enough to rev the tits off it when the oil is cold would it see over 7 bar.

[r33_racer]

Paul you notice much drop in oil pressure if you open up conrod side clearances? Or you think the drop would be negligible?

[Marko R1]

i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems

[waxracing]

i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems

Remember oil pressure does not come for free

Back when I was racing formula ford we spent ages getting the oil pressure just right to much and you were wasting hp

You need just enough pressure to stop the metal touching, and its not actual pressure that does that. 120 psi is not going to keep a con rod bearing touching a crank journal