N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

[bubba]

I'm really keen on a cost effective solution to this as I'm not far off final assembly!

[Alf]

I'm really keen on a cost effective solution to this as I'm not far off final assembly!

Ive just got mine running with the N1 pump and paranoid now

Cheapest Reimax gear set i can find so far is 670 au + del. through Greenline.

Im using a Jun collar so a VLT pump is outa the question.

Did the N1 pump come in 2 different size gear sets 77mm and 81mm? http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/bproduct...&fromlink=1

[STATUS]

On the gears changing, I know there are some companies in China who are producing a lot of powdered metal parts, maybe Nissan started sourcing them from there? Whatever the case, I won't use them any more, or if someone wants to use one, it's their problem if it breaks.

I'm getting some info on the gear splining, should have some news in the next week or so about a billet spline drive gear set to fit the standard housing. I've also been cadding up a new front housing that uses an external pump, probably a single stage petersen one but doesn't get in the way of the accessory drives or anything else.

ive got a GTi-R pump at home and im going to compare the rotor set to the spare jun and greddy RB26 pumps i have here, they look very similar...... really want to get them side by side.

[GT-RZ]

i'm not buying an n1 that's for sure. another fail thread came up yesterday. seems too risky. Don't like the idea of 2k+ for a pump though!!! someone must make some special collars and pump gears

[Jez13]

i'm not buying an n1 that's for sure. another fail thread came up yesterday. seems too risky. Don't like the idea of 2k+ for a pump though!!! someone must make some special collars and pump gears

My N1 pump blew as well. Sending all its internals through my engine and now it has to get a rebuild. However it was not the pumps fault, there was a leaking seal that made the pump overwork, thus destroying it. Well that's what the mech said. I am replacing it with a brand new N1 pump.

[GT-RZ]

My N1 pump blew as well. Sending all its internals through my engine and now it has to get a rebuild. However it was not the pumps fault, there was a leaking seal that made the pump overwork, thus destroying it. Well that's what the mech said. I am replacing it with a brand new N1 pump.

I think it was your post i was referring too. Wouldn't you be interested in not going back down that road? How big was the leak? making the pump work overtime you must have had a hole with your oil pouring out. just a thought.

[Rezlo]

My N1 pump blew as well. Sending all its internals through my engine and now it has to get a rebuild. However it was not the pumps fault, there was a leaking seal that made the pump overwork, thus destroying it. Well that's what the mech said. I am replacing it with a brand new N1 pump.

A leaking seal? which seal? the less pressure you place on the pump the less likely it is to crack. Unless you ran out of oil I dont see how a leaking seal would break an oil pump...

Effectively a leak is like comparing a single turbo to a twin turbo setup, the only thing different that would happen at the pump is the pressure relief valve will stay a touch closer to closed at higher RPM and when cold, doesn’t effect the load on the pump.

[shanef]

Well just got off the phone with greg and we've decided that it'll be easier for me to make the gears and collars.

So, if your keen on a set send me a pm or register ur interest in here so i can gauge how many sets i need to get made in the first batch and i'll put up a group buy thread once i've spoken to my machinist to clarify prices and dates. Rough prices atm will be about $600 for the collar and gears.

[Jez13]

I think it was your post i was referring too. Wouldn't you be interested in not going back down that road? How big was the leak? making the pump work overtime you must have had a hole with your oil pouring out. just a thought.

The pump is for free. Warranty replacement. The leak was barely noticeable. I didn't even notice a change on the dipstick. The mech said it was a turbo seal that blew. I am not a mechanic myself so I wouldnt know if this would or wouldn't cause my pump to blow.

[r33_racer]

I dont get how the pump will over work?

[[200]]

Makes two of us...

If it was my build I would be selling that N1 pump as soon as they gave it to me. After reading the stories on here there is no way in hell I would run one.

I hope I don't read a similar story in here again by you Jez13.

Quick edit,

You might be able to put some kind of meshing in the oil sump along with a magnet or two. If something shreds in the engine block then hopefully the magnet will pick it up before it goes through the engine and causes more damage.

Edited August 27, 2009 by [200]

[Sydneykid]

I did a quick count last week and I am up to 32 N1 oil pumps used in RB's (20's, 25's, 26's and 30's) since 1999 and guess what? Not one single failure recorded by anyone, road or track. So I don't think I will be changing any of mine any time soon.

Cheers

Gary

[bubba]

Gary, are you doing anything different that others might be overlooking?

Shanef, as per PM, still keen as

[TiTAN]

the engines that are killing N1 pumps, how well balanced are they? fuel or ignition cut limiters? regular limiter bashing?

Edited August 27, 2009 by TiTAN

[Jez13]

Makes two of us...

If it was my build I would be selling that N1 pump as soon as they gave it to me. After reading the stories on here there is no way in hell I would run one.

I hope I don't read a similar story in here again by you Jez13.

Quick edit,

You might be able to put some kind of meshing in the oil sump along with a magnet or two. If something shreds in the engine block then hopefully the magnet will pick it up before it goes through the engine and causes more damage.

Hmm. Well here is a thought. We are only picking on N1 pumps. What about all the other pumps out there? Are they all blowing just as much as the N1's under the same conditions. If there was an external property that killed an N1 pump - then that pump got replaced by a more expensive brand but without the external property fixed, would that pump blow also? It's strange - 50% of people in this thread are for N1 pumps and swear by them and the other 50% of people wont go near them or have had bad dealings. Well for scientific purposes I will retain the N1 pump after my engine build. If it blows again then I will have to support the haters and make it 51% to 49% thus concluding that N1 pumps are a no go.

[[200]]

I know where you're coming from and I understand that there is more to it than just the pump such as build tolerances and rpm limits.

But having said that, if I was to spend 5k on getting a bottom end built I would be saving extra and buying an external pump or dry sump system. I know that a member of another forum had his N1 pump let go and he's now rebuilding with a dry sump.

Gary, r31nismoid whatever his name is mentioned that they might be using a different metal grade for the gears in the 'new' N1 pumps. I don't mean to be disrespectful towards you but when did you last build a motor with an n1 pump?

[Rezlo]

TiTAN, as mentioned, if it was ballance, mashing limiters and/or dampers causing pump fails the bearings would be mashed long before the pump as with all other pump sets that share the same design. Most N1 pump faliures when caught in time show no signs of bearing dammage at all... Some right away some only after 40k km's.

From adv search across 19 international forums over the last 2 weeks, each case is unique in description and username and date range.

23% - Standard RB pump on short pump drive

6% - Standard RB pump on full pump drive

68% - N1 pump (not specified which diameter) -

3% - Greddy, HKS and Jun

1% - Tomei – only 2 cases found

5% and less can easily be chalked up to build issues/ballance "external factors" in my opinion,

Use it, don’t use it… but it definatly isnt 50/50... Obviously sales volume also would dictate the above, that said I would guess there are just as many if not more stock pump w/ full pump drives running around as there are N1's.

Sydneykid, you are one of the only "builders" I know of that still using them. I am glad youve had success and value your input greatly... Unfortunatly there are many performance renound RB builders all having the same faluires all over the world for no apparent reason...

I should have the metrology results back shortly on the remains of the N1 I removed from my motor as well as a stock RB25 pump and a stock SR20 pump.

[proengines]

Gary, I've used over 50 and the last one broke, the rest were no problem. Still that's enough for me to be paranoid from now on.

[R31Nismoid]

But you can break any oil pump...

[Mr. Untouchable]

well a nitto for $1350 from spool, or tweakit is starting to sound really good. and no doubt you can probably get them a touch cheaper if ya tried.