Hans Device Posts

[Neil]

I have a current problem with my right hand be partly paralized ie very minimal movement of my fingers and wrist. The doctor said I must have slept on it and damaged the nerves. I should have told him I race a high-lateral-g race car. My physio chicky has other ideas after viewing my vids. So I thought maybe a hans devise will restrict my head movements as my necks is always sore after a full day going roundies and this is where the nerves travel from.

My currect Bell Vortex Helmet doesn't have hans posts and here I'm thinking I'm going to get reamed hard up the tucker shoot,,,getting some pro to install them or worse having to buy a new helmet,,,I e-mailed Revolution Racegear and here's what I received in reply.

hANSaNCHORiNSTALL.pdf

Seems you can actually do it yourself!!!. Now I have no idea if this is legal,,,but I'll be doing it anyway.

Just thought I would share this info with you all.

Neil.

[Marlin]

Hmmm, thanks Neil, I wonder if that's allowed, ie, approved?

I don't think a HANS will help you much with lateral G though mate, there's no tension on them laterally.

[blackrex]

As far as I am aware, if the helmet is compatible with the HANS system ie, the manufacturer makes the same model with the holes already in place, then for anything up to FIA level events it is legal to retrofit the posts by drilling as shown.

[Kel]

Hey Neily - I think a HANS is a great investment but as Benny said it's probably not going to help with your movement issue. They are pretty much designed to stop your head whipping forward in a crash and not restrict your movement otherwise. Though some people do complain about it being restrictive I've never found it to be.

I think you'd be better off trying a neck collar like this first http://www.soloracer.com/pyrocollar.html

Probably more suitable for support and restricting movement and about a tenth of the price of the HANS!

And btw NO chance we'll be letting you drill holes in your helmet for posts sunshine

[giant]

maybe stop shagging so much!

[blackrex]

Another option is the Leatt brace, I know that Meridian Motorsport sells them, others probably do as well.

[Kel]

maybe stop shagging so much!

you know Neil did say the problem was with his hand....

[Tektrader69]

I use one of these. Seems to work well and saves my neck from whipping around. I actually got a faster lap time when I didnt have to concentrate on keeping head upright.

It fits reasonably tight between my helmet and my shoulders. So my head movement side to side is very well damped. Fairly comfortable actually. I can still look side to side, but can let a load off and allow the helmet to sit on it. A lighter helmet might have helped but I cant afford a carbon one.

They are only about $110

http://rallynuts.com/motorsport/SPARCO_Nec...k_Brace_565.asp

Edited August 20, 2009 by Tektrader69

[BezerkR32]

ive seen one installed with a cordless drill......it worked but just seemed wrong when they were doing it.

I have a current problem with my right hand be partly paralized ie very minimal movement of my fingers and wrist. The doctor said I must have slept on it and damaged the nerves. I should have told him I race a high-lateral-g race car. My physio chicky has other ideas after viewing my vids. So I thought maybe a hans devise will restrict my head movements as my necks is always sore after a full day going roundies and this is where the nerves travel from.

My currect Bell Vortex Helmet doesn't have hans posts and here I'm thinking I'm going to get reamed hard up the tucker shoot,,,getting some pro to install them or worse having to buy a new helmet,,,I e-mailed Revolution Racegear and here's what I received in reply.

hANSaNCHORiNSTALL.pdf

Seems you can actually do it yourself!!!. Now I have no idea if this is legal,,,but I'll be doing it anyway.

Just thought I would share this info with you all.

Neil.

[9krpm]

The Hans device should helps a little if you have mil to mod cervical spondylosis.

Having little motor function sounds a bit more serious than moderate cervical spondylosis.

Have you had any CT scan or MRI scan?

I would recommend a CT guided cortisone injection, Glucosamine and use as much neck protection as possible if you wish to continue motorsport;

-good helmet

-Leatte brace/hans device

-race seat with neck support

-window net

Edited August 20, 2009 by 9krpm

[PHaT MR30]

Its a bit of a grey area really, ive been told drilling into a helmet would void it. Yet as you say HANS say you can do it yourself.

Interestingly enough when I got mine from BSMSport I said can you fit it and they said clearly NO! but when i said my helmet already had the holes from the factory they said oh yeh easy.

If you did go this way I would strongly suggest a sliding tether and probably quick release posts. I think I am going to get quick release since I am in and out of the car often and its a pain in the ass trying to take it all off in the cabin.

[wolverine]

The Hans device should helps a little if you have mil to mod cervical spondylosis.

Having little motor function sounds a bit more serious than moderate cervical spondylosis.

Have you had any CT scan or MRI scan?

I would recommend a CT guided cortisone injection, Glucosamine and use as much neck protection as possible if you wish to continue motorsport;

-good helmet

-Leatte brace/hans device

-race seat with neck support

-window net

You can get this sort of dysfunction with mild or non-existent spondylosis as functional changes account for the vast majority of symptoms. However, the likelihood of some spondylosis/degenerative change/osteoarthritic change/wear and tear is higher as we get older. Even with degenerative changes most symptoms start suddenly which tells you something else has changed more recently which triggers the symptoms.

Issues with the hand could be anything from elbow/wrist/hand issue right through to thoracic outlet syndrome to spinal nerve irritation.

Plain x-ray is the minimum.

Glucosamine has very little evidence for helping necks, although there is little harm in using it for helping articular cartilage generally (particularly knees).

I would be having a really good look at joint movement in the lower neck and improving this area (chiro, physio etc) and secondly the thoracic outlet, then the carpal tunnel, then wrist/elbow muscles. There is no chance anyone would be sticking cortisone in me until other conservative treatment was exhausted.

[9krpm]

Geeezz I did not realise there is someone on here who takes free medical advice with more than a grain of salt.

Statistically 90% of the typical cases will resolves in 6-9 weeks anyway. Neil symptoms sound more serious than typical.

Lets discuss anyway....

You can get this sort of dysfunction with mild or non-existent spondylosis as functional changes account for the vast majority of symptoms.

True, however common things happen commonly.

From the very brief history and lack of any traumatic injury place spondylosis highest on the list of differential diagnoses.

Other causes are A-Z.

However, the likelihood of some spondylosis/degenerative change/osteoarthritic change/wear and tear is higher as we get older.

70+ % on XR for over 40 year old

Even with degenerative changes most symptoms start suddenly which tells you something else has changed more recently which triggers the symptoms.

Yes, common cause is that he slept wrong (or slept with it as giant suggested) but doesn't quite exclude A-Z.

Issues with the hand could be anything from elbow/wrist/hand issue right through to thoracic outlet syndrome to spinal nerve irritation.

The chance of a lesion involving all 3 (radial, median and ulnar) nerves somewhere in the forarm or the nerves around the arm (without any effect on the bicep or triceps) causing partial paralysis of the hand are remote. Brachial plexus lesion is possible but often gradual and almost all of my TOS diagnosese revolved with appropriate cervical management.

Most likely diagnosis is multilevel cervical spondylosis with osteophytes especially around C6/7 to T1 with impingement of C7, C8 and possibly T1 nerve roots.

This still doesnt change the proability of A-Z lol

Plain x-ray is the minimum.

70+% of people over 40 wil have cervical spondylosis

Cervical Xray has poor sensitivity/specificity.

It's a waste of time and money in my trade and in this case.

I would advise the patient to save money, wait for a few more week and if he/she doesnt get better then get an MRI scan...if there isn't any red flag on further history or examination

Glucosamine has very little evidence for helping necks, although there is little harm in using it for helping articular cartilage generally (particularly knees).

That's because of poor study techniques not because the medication doesn't work for those synovial joints.

I would be having a really good look at joint movement in the lower neck and improving this area (chiro, physio etc) and secondly the thoracic outlet, then the carpal tunnel, then wrist/elbow muscles. There is no chance anyone would be sticking cortisone in me until other conservative treatment was exhausted.

That is true but not everyone race a cool car like Neil and still like to race even with this amount of problem.

In all seriousness, I agree with you invasive treatment is the last resort for some diagnosis but is the first line for some diagnosis according to the current literature (and my experience).

My advices for long term prevention still stand.

Remember this diagnosis is only from an incomplete history. Obviously the working diagnoses will change as one get more information from examination and investigations....it's like playing Texas Holem lol...just one is more fun than the other

[Neil]

Bloody hell boy's I didn't expect all the medical stuff. Thank you very very much indeed.

I'm off to see my doctor again on Wednesday and to the hospital as they are going to make me a splint and as usual physio everyday.One of my problems is I'm over working every other muscle in my body to compensate which has made me sore as shit,,,tired,,,irratable,,,oh and grumpy.

I think I'll print this out and take it with me.

Oh I didn't mention I'm racing again in 4 weeks,,,someone better fix me fast!!!. Oran Park GP,,,will be the last time I run on it in anger.

Thanks again for the info,,,I didn't expect it.

Neil.

[wolverine]

I wasn't trying to take start anything but I do work on these daily and I am certainly advocating conservative care prior to more invasive care.

You are going to find we have 10x more common ground than differences of opinion but what I say stands most of it is factual in science and a little of it is hard won opinion just like yours

I like glucosamine just fine just in case you think I am naysayer.

I hope Neil gets some benefit out of this as a diversity of opinion (and lets face it you are saying potato and I am saying potaato) should help him get the best outcome and a speedy recovery.

[9krpm]

Bloody hell boy's I didn't expect all the medical stuff. Thank you very very much indeed.

Sorry Neil, it was meant to be short and simple but some how it became a medical blurb

Your GP won't be able to send you for an MRI unless he has some good connection, only specialist can refer for MRI scan.

The guideline will dictate that XR is the first line of investigation in your case and then if xr shows cervical spondylosis then MRI scan.

That is because these guideline predate the abundance of MRI machines. Nowaday, MRI machines are everywhere and often with empty lists. So you can get them if your GP has the right connection.

The evidence in the literature is that 70+% of people over 40 will have cervical spondylosis in XR, so 70% of people will waste their time and money with the XR. XR is around $100 and MRI scan can be done for $170-800+ (if you know where to go).

You can not and should not get a cortisone infiltration (neck) until you have a MRI scan.

The infiltration is "CAT machine assisted"...ie performed by a radiologist with the help of a CAT machine.

You will get more benefit from an experienced radiologist.

I wasn't trying to take start anything but I do work on these daily and I am certainly advocating conservative care prior to more invasive care.

You are going to find we have 10x more common ground than differences of opinion but what I say stands most of it is factual in science and a little of it is hard won opinion just like yours

It's all good mate. I know where you are coming from.

I can't say I treat this daily but I see this 5 days per week

I never treat any of them, I only assist them in making the right decision for their medical issue.

I am in QLD so I can't offer any help with your issue Neil.

I do hope that I am wrong and you are in the 90% of typical cases that do get better though.

If you have any query, please feel free to shoot me a pm.

Good luck Neil

Edited August 22, 2009 by 9krpm

[2pee]

Might be an image somewhere of Peter Saunderson's Radical, a handy steerer.....probably Sports 1300 Qld newsletter, he has a support structure off the ROPS he's been using for 5 odd years to assist with lateral G which might give some ideas.....not sure I'd want to have a bingle with it though.

Best practice I've seen was the Audi LMP (I think), with a removeable composite support up the cockpit center line a la open wheel norms from a few years ago - Mulsannes corner might be fruitful in that pursuit.

Hope it's not spondylosis, do find the affliction helpful for spotting dropped money though!

[9krpm]

spondylosis is a normal thing 2pee, we all get it

[Neil]

Well I got really lucky today and got this brace made and thanks to Australia's great health care system I didn't have to pay for it.

I have an appointment tomorrow with a neurosurgeon,,,one days notice and got someones's cancelled booking. Lucky for me my doctor owns a BMW. Somehow I think I'll get pay back.

Neil.

[sav man]

My helmate has the hans holes, and it's got a cams hans approved sticker with a serial number. So you probably can do it...but some anal scruteneer will pull you up for it