Garrett 2860 -5 Turbo Killowat Potential

[GT-R32]

you need more like 20k from a stock motor, to make a reliable 400kw

That's certainly an expensive few kW. Pay to play I guess!

[DAN00H]

20k just the engine!?!? or total?

surely others have built a 500kw engine for less?

[GT-R32]

20k just the engine!?!? or total?

surely others have built a 500kw engine for less?

$20k for a block for 400kW is well past the laws of diminishing returns when people have seen mid-300s on stock blocks.

[sneakey pete]

That's 20k For a 400kw engine wtih -5's (and the response that they bring). I'm sure you could get 400kw for less strapping a t04z or something silly on, but it might not be as responsive.

[Swiper the Fox]

this is all a bit silly....look.

Forged pistons, ARP rod bolts, Tomei 260 cams, Nitto oil pump, ACL bearings and a gasket kit is all you need to buy new.

re-size the conrods, overhaul the head, bore and hone the block.

467 AWKW .... 10.34 @ 134 and i skimped on the oil pump and bought an N1 (Nitto were not around then)

20K...lol

If i charged 20K for a 400KW engine id either be walking around with a stocking on my head or sipping Pina Colada's in the Bahamas.

Edited September 2, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[DAN00H]

if you are staying std capacity, i'm sure a build with A/M rods/ pistons would cost less than 8k.

the smaller turbos would be running hotter inlet temps, therefore requiring better cooling when they are pushing the higher boost.

still can't see 20k in the engine for 400kw @ wheels???

LOL - think Paul answered it nicely no way I'd pay 20k!

Edited September 2, 2009 by DAN00H

[R31Nismoid]

By the time you add in turbos and everything else?

Fairly easily.

Depends on what failed in the first place sometimes too don't forget.

Add in a crank, $1100.

Or if an idler bearing let go and smashed up a heap of vales etc etc, 2nd hand head, $1500 (probably easier to buy another 2nd hand).

I'm not saying it costs 20k to get to 400rwkw, you can do it on a motor with a oil pump, pistons and the stock rods... but if you want to milk every last bit out of -5's to get over 400rwkw - it will be close to that.

Also what "type" of 400rwkw? A type that is blisteringly fast eveywhere? Or one that doesn't really do much until 5000rpm? (ie stroker/head combo vs stock 2.6 and little head work)

Paul - wasn't that on the fuel? And also didn't you do a fair bit of the head work/porting and so on yourself? (which at the end of the day the average punter is putting in another 1500 for)

[DAN00H]

no - 20k was based on engine build only (and not a broken engine mentioned as a starting point). so I would calculate the build on an already running 26 requiring upgraded internals such as pistons/ rods/ bearings/ bolts. (obviously additional things like gaskets, machining).

me, I could not justify 20k using stock crank on an Engine build inc stck cams

[GT-R32]

I couldn't justify it full stop. My car is only worth $20k on a good day.

Paul summed it up with experience not hype to back it up. I also remember reading an earlier post of his saying Stacey raced something like 4 seasons on something like a $5k block (excluding labour?) making that sort of power above. Please correct my memory Paul.

I just hope sending a block up from Canberra isn't too expensive.

[TiTAN]

you will be looking at ~$150 for a pallet.

It cost me $130 Canberra to Wollongong.

Edited September 2, 2009 by TiTAN

[Swiper the Fox]

By the time you add in turbos and everything else?

Fairly easily.

Depends on what failed in the first place sometimes too don't forget.

Add in a crank, $1100.

Or if an idler bearing let go and smashed up a heap of vales etc etc, 2nd hand head, $1500 (probably easier to buy another 2nd hand).

I'm not saying it costs 20k to get to 400rwkw, you can do it on a motor with a oil pump, pistons and the stock rods... but if you want to milk every last bit out of -5's to get over 400rwkw - it will be close to that.

Also what "type" of 400rwkw? A type that is blisteringly fast eveywhere? Or one that doesn't really do much until 5000rpm? (ie stroker/head combo vs stock 2.6 and little head work)

Paul - wasn't that on the fuel? And also didn't you do a fair bit of the head work/porting and so on yourself? (which at the end of the day the average punter is putting in another 1500 for)

Ash my point was the engine was good enough to make 450KW+ with only basic stuff...nothing to do with fuel used etc...just that the basic engine build i refered to was capable of being durable with that power level. Head was 'cleaned up' though yes...nothing too OTT though. It made over 400 on pump day in day out till it caught N1 virus.

[Angus Smart]

Buy my engine.. haha

[ali-turko]

no i ment turbos, injectors, pfc ect.. not just bottom end rebuild

[GTRAAH]

Its pretty much right it will cost around 20 k all up for a good healthy 400kw setup on the -5 because like i said i spent almost 14k on everything BUT the internals Including labour. Now for a internal rebuild it will be around 6k Includin labour. So thats pretty close to 20k i can pump the boost as high as i want now and get crazy killowats but say goodbye to the engine lol

[femno]

Whether or not you can 'justify' a 20k build no one really cares, nor if it overcomes the value of your car or not.

The point is its piss easy to spend 20k having your engine rebuilt, turbos and fuel system and all supporting mods supplied and installed, tuned etc etc etc.

Ok yeah maybe some people like Dirt laugh at a 20k build for an engine, but seriously to have to this work done by someone for 20k isnt that funny.

Dirt did you install the engine yourself? I think the labour costs are being forgotten about here.

Im guessing GTAAH, youre having the work done by a shop or someone?

[GT-R32]

Correct Mat, there are many different ways you can build an engine. On the extreme other end, some blokes send their motors or have their motors built in Japan. That's what they want to do.

But there were two different things being discussed. One was the block and head only, the other was that and including everything else required for 400kW. If you go with the latter, I would suggest that up toward $20k is far from unreasonable. And of course, plenty of people have spent $20k on a block only using some particularly expensive bits. Point is, that is beyond being economical for that level of power and associated durability - other requirements are being satisfied.

[Swiper the Fox]

Whether or not you can 'justify' a 20k build no one really cares, nor if it overcomes the value of your car or not.

The point is its piss easy to spend 20k having your engine rebuilt, turbos and fuel system and all supporting mods supplied and installed, tuned etc etc etc.

Ok yeah maybe some people like Dirt laugh at a 20k build for an engine, but seriously to have to this work done by someone for 20k isnt that funny.

Dirt did you install the engine yourself? I think the labour costs are being forgotten about here.

Im guessing GTAAH, youre having the work done by a shop or someone?

If you start from a stock car then spending 20K is a doddle...easy to blow that. I thought he meant engine build only...engine build these days is about 8-10K depending on whats done...double that for anything used for racing and triple that for high end motorsport stuff.

Edited September 3, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[sneakey pete]

ok, following up on my post from before: would be it cheaper to get 400KW from a bigger turbo(s) (overly large), or from a set of -5's? Would you need expensive head work, new cams or something of the like to be able to tease that sort of power out of them? (and would you need it on the bigger turbo?). I mean, i understand that, no matter whats pushing the air in, the block itself has to be equally strong to match the power, but what about other bits?

[bradsm87]

ok, following up on my post from before: would be it cheaper to get 400KW from a bigger turbo(s) (overly large), or from a set of -5's? Would you need expensive head work, new cams or something of the like to be able to tease that sort of power out of them? (and would you need it on the bigger turbo?). I mean, i understand that, no matter whats pushing the air in, the block itself has to be equally strong to match the power, but what about other bits?

I think twin -5's are cheaper because U can use stock manifolds, oil lines and water lines. You'd need a set of drop-in cams like Tomei Poncam Type B at minimum but nothing else is really necessary head wise. U'll obviously need forged pistons and oil control mods sorted as well but i think ur question is specific to the head?

Cheers,

Brad

[R31Nismoid]

ok, following up on my post from before: would be it cheaper to get 400KW from a bigger turbo(s) (overly large), or from a set of -5's? Would you need expensive head work, new cams or something of the like to be able to tease that sort of power out of them? (and would you need it on the bigger turbo?). I mean, i understand that, no matter whats pushing the air in, the block itself has to be equally strong to match the power, but what about other bits?

Well with a decent build, stocker cams and head work plenty of cars stock 2.6ltr have run virtually 400rwkw without a problem.

You can go bigger turbos, but can you deal with the lesser response hit you are going to take to get there?

And nothing's to say they will magically make the power either if the other stuff isn't right