Cas All The Way Ccw.......why?

[meet07]

Ok I have a s1 rb25det in a 240sx. Ive been driving it with no problems for about a year now. Then All of a sudden my car start staying around 210 coolant temps in F. So I checked my timing and found that the only way I can set it at 15 btdc is with the cas all the way CCW?? What could cause this??

Edited September 4, 2009 by meet07

[blind_elk]

Some timing lights show double the real timing when you use the "timing loop".

The safest way to check timing is to insert a spark plug lead between coil #1 and its plug, and check the timing "old school".

[meet07]

My freind told me about the redline product water wetter. He told me how he put it in his ride and temps decreased. Well I have been seeing my temps around 210 for about a month or 2 and kinda wanted to lower the temps. So I did a coolant flush and added the redline water wetter. I filled the rb with the front jacked up and let the car run until the thermostat opened. Cut the car off for about 3 minutes and crunk it back up. I repeated this about 3 times. Then I wanted to check my timing b/c the other day I messed with it and wanted to double check. When I checked it I noticed that the timing was reaing 0 degrees. So I adjusted it all the way ccw. Took it for a spin and it felt good but when I brought it back home to idle the temps reached 210 again. 2 weekends ago it climbed over 210 after a long drive and when it did the rpm went from like 1100 to 16-1700 rpms.

im confused b/c i have never had a car act like this. It doesnt make sense.

Edited September 5, 2009 by meet07

[blind_elk]

Are you using the factory engine fan, or a thermo fan?

Is the thermostat working correctly?

Have you been using corrosion inhibitor in the coolant? The blades on the water pump have been known to disappear when inhibitor is not used.

[Moodles2]

Open up the air bleeder (near the pressure regulator), turn the heater to max hot and jack the front up so the radiator is the highest point again.

And are you using a fan shroud on the radiator?

[mad082]

more than likely 2 different issues here. the timing issue could be caused by the timing belt jumping a tooth, or possibly by the CAS being dodgy. if you can try someone elses CAS is the easier of the 2 options, but it isn't unheard of for the timing belt to be out by 1 tooth.

the temp issue could be caused by the timing issue but could also be caused by something totally unrelated. it could be that the radiator is blocked, the thermostat could be stuffed, there could be air in the system or the water pump could be worn out.

[meet07]

I fixed the coolant temp issue by replaced my old fan setup with the 210/220 fal fans...

But im still having the ccw cas sensor issue. I recently installed a z32 maf and realized that the car was breaking up around 10-14psi. I put the timing gun on the crank to find that my timing was to the left of the TDC mark. I lowered the idle to 900 and checked timing and it was at the TDC mark but not 15 degrees??

-I checked to see if maybe I jumped a tooth on the belt. That checked out fine!!

-checked to see if the key was broken off in the cas...good!!

Now im stuck? With the cas ccw(15 degrees) on 14psi she pulls super hard!!! but if i place the cas in the center where it is suppose to be its breaks up due to the timing being retarded...

please help!!

Edited March 26, 2010 by meet07

[Ryno]

I also seem to be having this issue of the CAS being hard over at the end of it's adjustment to get 15 deg. Is this something worth worrying about?

[DVS JEZ]

Let me take a punt and say u used the timing loop to connect the timinglight onto?

If u did this it doesnt work.

Best way is to remove cyl 1 coilpack and use an ignition lead.

[Ryno]

Yes I did use the timing loop. However the timing is set correct, as it would be pinging it's head off if the timing was advanced too far by being on that stop mistakenly.

So I'm sure it is at the correct 15∘ BTDC. I just want to know why it is hard on the stop to get the correct timing?

Is the cause the tune in the Power FC? Is it the Poncams? Is it an incorrectly installed timing belt?

[DVS JEZ]

Unless the exhaust gear is extremely adjusted

If u could hear the pinging from out side its extreme and too late.

Trust me, get an ignition lead and double check it.

For the sake of 10 minutes work.

The timing loop has always been 15degree's or so out when i have tried it

[533 RYC]

The loop is there for factory & dealer use. All computer equipt vehicles with CAS or a dizzy have a procedure to put the ECU in a timing limp mode, only then can ignition timing be properly adjusted. Nissan use consult to tell the ECU to go into timing mode. On most older ECU cars, you simply bridge two terminals out (engine speed very noticibly drops), adjust your timing, pull your bridge out & your done. Im not sure if there is a procedure like this for the consult plug. I haven't found one yet anyway...............

[DVS JEZ]

The loop is there for factory & dealer use. All computer equipt vehicles with CAS or a dizzy have a procedure to put the ECU in a timing limp mode, only then can ignition timing be properly adjusted. Nissan use consult to tell the ECU to go into timing mode. On most older ECU cars, you simply bridge two terminals out (engine speed very noticibly drops), adjust your timing, pull your bridge out & your done. Im not sure if there is a procedure like this for the consult plug. I haven't found one yet anyway...............

Sounds easy eh...

Still doesnt make the timing light read the loop correctly.

[Stevoss]

900rpm was too high on mine and was jumping around, i think in the fsm its @ 650-750rpm.

[533 RYC]

Sounds easy eh...

Still doesnt make the timing light read the loop correctly.

Agreed Jez.

The loop WILL read correctly, once the ECU knows it's in timing adjust mode. RPM drops as the ECU disables advance as compensation for no vaccuum advance as on older dizzy equipt ECU vehicles (where you have to disconnect & plug the vaccuum line before bridging the plug). Unless this is done, setting timing is a hit n miss exercise. I suppose this subject has been covered extensively already!

[DVS JEZ]

U are incorrect thinking the timing loop will change.

What i mean by this is setting the ecu into "timing mode" just locks the timing solid so it doesnt change while u are setting the base timing, by using consult etc u can read and match, eg: if the consult shows 5 degree's then set the base timing at 5 degree's. if 15 set at 15 etc.

The issue with the timing loop is alot of timing lights can't accurately read/pickup the signal. The loop wire is just an extension of the wiring going to the cylinder 1 coil signal wire.

So theoretically the loop wire should read exactly as if connected to a coil lead when run off cylinder 1 coil.

An ignition lead is 100% accurate as the timing light is designed to read it and does so easily.

You are correct that the ecu should be put into timing mode

[Ryno]

This conversation has morphed away from my original question. I am happy that I have set the correct timing of 15 deg BTDC, the issue is that my CAS is all the way to the stops to achieve it.

I've since been told by my mechanic that we can change a setting in the Power FC to get the CAS in a more normal position (I assume it to advance the whole base timing by 10 deg or so), but is this kosher?

[DVS JEZ]

It has been on topic the whole time.

I will ask it again tho, have u checked the ignition by using cylinder 1 with an ignition lead?

It will take u 10 minutes to do and then u can be 100% certain u are correctly reading the timing.

There should be no need to change any settings in the power fc to try and bandaid the issue