Time For A Rear End Upgrade, What's The Diff?

[darrinspencer]

Looking into replacing the complete rear craddle in my car.The rear craddle in my car has always been rusty and needs to be changed or sand blasted and repainted.

Plus I am in the process of upgrading the turbo which should it capable of seeing over 300rwkw which is another reason to upgrade the rear to bigger drive shafts etc.

Plus I am looking for new wheels, most probably Rays GT-c's, so if I use the narrower GTR/260RS craddle I can fit/order bigger 9.5" or 10" rims

I have spent a few hours searching, mainly Unqiue1 (Aka Brad, Stagzilla, Cruiseliner) posts, and alot of the info is useful but also not right/guess work as it is from 2005 when stagea's were relative new in OZ. Also to note, most of Brads comparsions are with R32GTR craddles and not R33/R34 GTR

One think mentioned, is the stagea is said to have smaller drive shafts. Brad quoted his series 1 stagea has rear shafts with a 28mm shaft and a GTR (R32) to have 30mm. I measured my series 2 shafts last night and they are 30mm diameter. So there is a difference.

I have found accross the nissan range, R32, R33, R34, S15, S13 etc pretty much share the same craddle mounting locations. The R32 is slightly different to the R33/R34 by just a few mm's, but apparently you can get offset bushes in Japan to fix this problem.

Since the Stagea is around the same era as the R33 GTR, the most logical choice to start is the R33/R34 GTR rear craddle.

I need someone with FAST to cross check Stagea series 1 and 2 auto with 260rs and R33 GTR and possibly R33 GTST4 to see if anything matches.

Plus if the 260RS/RS4 "S" has a narrower craddle or hub to hub dimension than the auto stagea, yet the mounting points of the craddle are the same, where is the difference? In the craddle overall width or the in the suspension arm length?

Any info will be a help.

[QWK32]

there was a thred started i little while ago about a HICAS rack that was ripped off a subframe and what possible subframes could fit. Link i did some searching on fast as did BensDR30 and none of the p/n's matched up, but thats not to say that there wouldn't be a possible fit. have a look at MIKE's posts on the second page about the S14/S15 subframes, might be of some help.

[KiwiRS4T]

There was a S1 260 RS advertised in the South Island which listed an R34 rear subframe as one of the mods. I haven't seen the actual car.

[darrinspencer]

There was a S1 260 RS advertised in the South Island which listed an R34 rear subframe as one of the mods. I haven't seen the actual car.

I wonder what would be the benefit of that?

Some good info there thanks

What I have found so far.

Rear track is 1515mm for auto and manual stagea's. Could not confirm 260RS. Somebody got factory spec's on the 260rs?

Standard wheels are 16x6.5 +40

Factory manual RS4 S are 17x7 +30

260RS are rear 17x7 +20

The wheel width and offsets are important to consider to confirm the craddle width when related back to the track.

When you enter the wheel spec into a wheel offset calculator with standard auto spec wheels verse the manual and 260rs you get different measurements

The series manual 17x7+30 are total 32mm wider overall

The 260rs 17x7+20 are total 52mm wider overall

So if the track is the same for the auto and manual at 1515, the cradle must be 32mm narrower.

Can not confirm the 260RS cradle difference until someone can confirm the factory rear track measurement.

This might explain some of the different part numbers for the cradle across all 3 variants.

[darrinspencer]

To add to the confussion, a R33 GTR track is 1490mm, 25mm less than the stagea.

With factory wheels being 17x9 +30, an extra 84mm wider overall, minus the 25mm difference in track, the difference in the cradle width is 59mm narrower on on the R33 gtr.

Anyone know the S14/s15 track and stock wheel spec?

[rb26stagea]

Darrin, as far as I am aware, my car runs a R33 GTR rear cradle, and you've seen the difference in track on my car... I would suggest you give Herman at envy inports a call just to verify this if needs be: tell him it's Rod's (my old man's) old Stagea: he knows the car well. Just a suggestion before you start experimenting... I was also informed that I had to run different (non S1) rear shafts in mine: I believe one is R33 GTR, and the other is a modified Z32(?).

[32TAXI]

Darrin, I clear 18x9.5 +15 EASY on my RS4 s. (Room to move in rear, front's just squeeze in)

I believe arms are same length, cradle is wider in auto models.

Wide-body silvia's run stagea auto cradle for extra width without running huge negative offset rims.

Std R33 skyline - S14 200sx rear cross-member/diff should work depending on tailshaft used.

Should only Require narrow cradle and shorter shafts! Your factory auto arms, struts, hubs should fit straight back in.

Edited September 10, 2009 by RED513

[msports180]

As far as im aware 260rs cradle is the same as R33 GTR. When researching all the specs for mine to go over the pits (roadworthy) i had to supply all the info on the differences between RS4 and 260RS.

I found RS4 rear track 1515mm with 16x6 (+30)

Autech rear track 1510mm with 17x7 +20

Well thats the info i found.

Front track on the autech is 20mm wider to.

Autech cradle went straight into the RS4. Shafts are visibaly bigger, rear sway bar bigger, has the craddle brace, other then that looks standard R33/S14 type etc.

As Red513 said above should be all you need.

[darrinspencer]

Std R33 skyline - S14 200sx rear cross-member/diff should work depending on tailshaft used.

Should only Require narrow cradle and shorter shafts! Your factory auto arms, struts, hubs should fit straight back in.

Don't I have to change the hubs to GTR to run the larger driveshaft splines?

Plus what about the diff end. I would have to use GTR spigot shafts as the GTR uses 6x1 bolt pattern and the series 2 stagea auto is 5x1?

[M I K E]

as i've said before, s14/15 rack will fit and is roughly 50mm narrower than the auto stagea cradle and is pretty much identicle width to a factory manual stagea cradle. you have to use an s14 turbo subframe though - no hicas either

as you are aware you can run lower offsets with them fitted and personally, i'd grab those gt-c's from thuy that i posted in your other thread (you were concerned about rears poking)

[M I K E]

s15 cradle pictured here

[darrinspencer]

as i've said before, s14/15 rack will fit and is roughly 50mm narrower than the auto stagea cradle and is pretty much identicle width to a factory manual stagea cradle. you have to use an s14 turbo subframe though - no hicas either

as you are aware you can run lower offsets with them fitted and personally, i'd grab those gt-c's from thuy that i posted in your other thread (you were concerned about rears poking)

Actually found another set for $1250 lees than Thuy. He wants $3900 for that set. Can buy new ones for less.

But the ones I have found are

fronts 18x9 +31, will still need to run spacer

Rear 18x10 +37

probably run my 245 tyres all round

I have not checked the Rays charts yet, but if I go with the new subframe I could also go to 19x9.5 in the right offsets maybe.

I have found a r33 GTR subframe with hubs, axles and arms, with optional diff. But center ratio's are no good at 4.11

[darrinspencer]

Just realised those 18x10 :down rears will be no good

[32TAXI]

Just use a Narrow cradle eg: R33-R34 gtst or gtr, run skyline GTST shafts (5x1 bolts) and your diff.

No need to swap tailshaft, ratios, etc and your hubs, struts and arms should all bolt straight up.

R32-s13 cradle has different lower control arm pickups - not recommended!

Auto stagea shafts-5x1, long

skyline shafts-5x1, std length

silvia shafts-3x2, std length

RS4s/260RS/GTR shafts-6x1, big spline outer/alloy knuckle, std length

Gtr shafts require alloy knuckle(strut swap) or GTR bearing-flange fitted to std knuckle.

We can fit GTR/GTST/R32/R33/S14/S15 cradles into silvia's without changing track, auto stagea cradle and shafts add 50mm track!

Hope it helps!

!!!Let me know if you choose to swap, might extra wide body the silvia & go well with the 17x9.5 +15 i'm trying to squeeze under her Right Now!!!

Edited September 10, 2009 by RED513

[darrinspencer]

From what I have found today, that all sounds right. I was just on Yahoo auctions searching for pic's and came across an add for a stagea auto cradle to go into a GTR or S15/s14 to make them wider. The toal opposite

Why is it better to get the non hicas cradle, like a s14 r33 gts4 than the hicas one?

Would still like to upgrade hubs and GTR axles while I have it all out

[unique1]

heres a PM i just sent to Darrin for anyone interested in the future...

260rs vs rs4....

I have compared the two but not out of the car as yet so measurements are hard to get exact, but the 260rs one is definately 45-50mm narrower overall. The arms on rs4 and 260rs are the same lengths, its actually the points just outside of the bolt up points for the cradle that are different widths bringing all the arm mounting spots out 25mm each side, while still allowing the bolt up holes for the cradle to the car stay the same. I havent checked myself but have been told the axles are just 32 gtr lengths too so nothing unique or hard to get hold of, i was told this from the guy i bought the cradle off as he used the autech axles in his car do complete a gtr rear end conversion in a r34 gt-t.

The only downside to the autech cradle is its got hicas which just means i need a lockbar. The good point is the wheel fitment now allows a 9.5' +12 rim to sit the same as a 9" +30 (33 and 34 gtr rims) do on an rs4 which is spot on, and the fronts fit a 9.5' +12 perfect as they are so that means gtr offset wheels are available everywhere and lots to choose from. I have been told a 10' +20 (which is what i have ready to go on) will foul on the rear strut by about 6mm or so but a small spacer will fix that and still not make the wheel stick out too far. Also dont forget you will need fork end coilovers on the rear once u swap it over same as a gtr, unless you have already got them.

heres a couple of pics of the cradle different width area highlighted in red... first pic is the rs4 and second pic is the 260rs.

hope it helps mate, any other info or measurements just let me know and i can do it.

cheers

Brad

I know for sure a r32 gtr cradle wont fit in a stagea as the bolt up points for the cradle to the body are different widths, so are u guys sure a s14 isnt the same as 32 gtr?

Edited September 10, 2009 by unique1

[32TAXI]

R32 Gtr - R32 gts - s13 -a31 all use short rear coilover and different lower arm pickup, O-type upper arms - Not Recommended.

R33/34 Gtr - R33/34 - S14/15 - stagea - all use long rear coilover, modified lower pickup point, I-type upper arms.

I'd source a R33 Gtst cradle and shafts, same hubs, same struts, same diff & cheap cheap.

Check rear toe arms and Hicas lock bar or go S14/15 cradle but even they flex! (Extra bar welded between toe arms in MIKE's pic above)

Rather then try source New rear struts + complete autech rear or Gtr rear then change diff ratios. (been there trying to fit os-giken centre in silvia)

Up to Darrin.

Also what tailshaft they run in the auto's - cv joint or uni?

Edited September 10, 2009 by RED513

[M I K E]

just to ellaborate on the difference with s13 frames too - the front chassis pickup points are slightly different from memory, i know you need offset bushes to run s14/15 cradles in s13

[rb30dett]

heres a PM i just sent to Darrin for anyone interested in the future...

260rs vs rs4....

I have compared the two but not out of the car as yet so measurements are hard to get exact, but the 260rs one is definately 45-50mm narrower overall. The arms on rs4 and 260rs are the same lengths, its actually the points just outside of the bolt up points for the cradle that are different widths bringing all the arm mounting spots out 25mm each side, while still allowing the bolt up holes for the cradle to the car stay the same. I havent checked myself but have been told the axles are just 32 gtr lengths too so nothing unique or hard to get hold of, i was told this from the guy i bought the cradle off as he used the autech axles in his car do complete a gtr rear end conversion in a r34 gt-t.

The only downside to the autech cradle is its got hicas which just means i need a lockbar. The good point is the wheel fitment now allows a 9.5' +12 rim to sit the same as a 9" +30 (33 and 34 gtr rims) do on an rs4 which is spot on, and the fronts fit a 9.5' +12 perfect as they are so that means gtr offset wheels are available everywhere and lots to choose from. I have been told a 10' +20 (which is what i have ready to go on) will foul on the rear strut by about 6mm or so but a small spacer will fix that and still not make the wheel stick out too far. Also dont forget you will need fork end coilovers on the rear once u swap it over same as a gtr, unless you have already got them.

heres a couple of pics of the cradle different width area highlighted in red... first pic is the rs4 and second pic is the 260rs.

hope it helps mate, any other info or measurements just let me know and i can do it.

cheers

Brad

I know for sure a r32 gtr cradle wont fit in a stagea as the bolt up points for the cradle to the body are different widths, so are u guys sure a s14 isnt the same as 32 gtr?

Brad is spot on I bolted in a complete r33 gtr rear (cradle diff hubs etc) change your front diff gears over to gtr then your suspension on the rear and your away. I have a spare front gtr diff you can have cheap.

[Duncan]

2 quick notes.

1/ offset bushes to deal with the different cradle mounting points are available - I got min in ally from UAS.

2/ you can use the 33 gtr diff centre with your standard diff housing. you keep the stagea ratio but gain a mechanic centreq