Ingall is a TOOL!

[2rismo]

everything i want to say on this issue is posted here:

http://www.streetcommodores.com.au/forum/s...=&threadid=7974

it is OBVIOUSLY being shot down by the holden heads but you have to expect that. Good to see some differing opinions if not very much clear though

Adrian

[46n2]

2rismo:

4) He didn't run out onto the track he walked to the back of his car and did what any other driver would have done.

Sorry dude but I disagree - I only caught the bits on the news and the like - and I don't think any driver in their right fu(king mind would walk screaming to abuse a race car -during the race- at the side of the track.

When I saw it I thought Skaife was a fu(king wanker. He's been driving for long enough to realise just how unsafe his actions were. It was immature and unprofessional.

:whackit: :thumbdwn: Skaife :thumbdwn: :whackit:

[2rismo]

Amen 46N2, Amen.

[Roy]

Damn 2rismo, pretty patient bunch over there with all those quotes and long posts!

A lot of people say Skaife complains, there isnt a guy in the padddock that doesnt get upset and complain when they feel they have been hard done by.

The big difference is when they accept responsibility for poor results, did you see Skaife complain about his drive thru penalty? He openly admits he has made too many mistakes this year.

I think back to the Channel 7 days, my god, between Johnson, Bowe, Jones, Gardner, Crompton, Longhurst every round had a dummy spit/whinge in the pits. Seton, Mezera and Brock seemed to be the only ones steering clear of the channel 7 cameras when they were a little too excitable.

[benm]

Longhurst vs Morrison (BMW's) ... ahh those were the days

[Clint32]

also the race was in a saftey car period when skaife walked towards the edge of the track, a lot different to if the it was under green

[dr30man]

Just a quicky on this point if you want to know the law by the civil court.

1. skaife's "jesture" to ingall was in fact a closed fist, (who cares you say) but in fact a closed fist shaken in that manner is in fact a form of assualt, 6 months bail and a few hundred dollar fine.

2. skaifes "aggression" in the SBR pit, is seen under civil law as also assualt, due to the jesturing and verbal abuse, and he also pushed Mr Stone (physical abuse).

IF THIS happened anywhere else skaife would have a police record for assault and ingall a good laugh.

[Smiley]

but if you wanna get like that ingalls swerve was a case of reckless driving and since it was meant as a clear threat could also be deemed assault I think just about everyone agrees on one point wiether they be holder or ford fan; both drivers were out of line after the incident.

[Roy]

dr30man, come on seriously!

If thats true...there is no way in the context of what happened the Police would even bring charges, let alone the matter be heard in court, or given the max sentence.

And i dont know if im reading into this too much, but im not taking your legal advise to seriously when you cant spell gesture.

Bring back Kevin Bartlett for some real fisty cuffs and insaults! You have to love the good old days!

[dr00]

he didnt shake a closed fist he had one finger out pointing at ingall. if pointing a finger at someone is a form of assault then wtf is swerving at someone at 100+kmh? it was hardly a push he put his was going past him. go have a cry to your lawyer and sue someone for spilling coffee on yourself or something.

[dr30man]

clap clap , sure ingall was a tool but, it doesn't matter anyhow as the cops cant do a thing without either skaife or ingall taking action. and as dr00 "said go have a cry to your lawyer and sue someone for spilling coffee on yourself or something." Im sure this has happened in america.

[Ahh32]

everyone except Squizz and 2rismo, what the hell race were u watching.

Coming into the corner Ingall gave Skaife racing room to pass during the corner still racing room, at the end of the corner Skaife forces Ingall a little wide, which in turn causes Ingall's L/H side tyres to drop of the concrete and into the dirt causing Ingall's BA to swerve right, hitting the L/H rear quarter of Skaife's VY. Skaife went sideways and Ingall swerved right to avoid T-Boning Skaife. Then the little hissy fit etc. etc.

[dr00]

hahaha are you a lawyer? that is the biggest load of shit i have ever heard/seen/read. he gave skaife room? he ran wide and put his tyres in the dirt which is not unusual! he didnt swerve when his tyres hit the dirt, he came back onto the black stuff and rubbed up against skaife, bounced off a couple of times until skaife gave way. swerved right to avoid t boning?? he swerved right coz he was pushing skaife so hard and the car gave way into a spin!

i was going to ignore this topic but when i read the thing in my email i couldnt believe my eyes...

[Roy]

This is funny, seriously im not being a smart a55. Its funny how people can all watch the same thing and interpret it in different ways, especially considering i thought it was obvious what happened...:argue:

Coming into the corner Ingall gave Skaife racing room to pass during the corner

I cannot believe that Ingall happily left room on the entrance/mid corner for Skaife to pass. What i think is more likely is that Ingall struggling on worn tyres ran a bit deep under brakes and was playing catch up all thru the conrner including the exit, hoping not to lose a position in case the rain came.

at the end of the corner Skaife forces Ingall a little wide

No drama i agree, a little wide, if Skaife wanted to he could have on 3/4 exit really served Ingall up, but he didnt and i believe he was trying to give Ingall racing room. By corners end Skaife was no longer taking road off Ingall, and even thru the corner Ingall was as wide as he was because of his corner entry more then Skaife understeering wide. (Racing room does sometimes involve a little rubbing)

Ingall's rear left wheel did run onto the dirt when on corner exit, but that was only because the curbing finished, not because he was being forced further off the road. Hell im no touring car driver, but on the exit of turn 9 i dump my left rear wheel onto the dirt in the axact same spot 1 in every 5-6 laps when i carry a little too much corner speed.

I think the question is did Ingalls car dart right when he hit the dirt, form what have seen (i still have it on video) the answer is no. Looking at the front right wheel on Skaifes car i dont believe he was moving to the left either. Did Ingall intend to punt Skaife, i dont think so, did he stupidly continue to fight for a lost position, and recklessly cause damage to another competitors car.YES!

Skaife went sideways and Ingall swerved right to avoid T-Boning Skaife.

If anyone was moving over on somebody else, i think it was Ingall bumping Skaife, not the other way around. By the time Skaife went bush Ingall was already well over towards the middle of the road, and didnt need to serve to miss the spinning Skaife.

I am 99% sure that if Ambrose/Murphy/Richards/Lowndes was in Ingalls position then the accident would not have occurred. My feeling is that Ingall was trying to go door to door,taking from Skaife all the room possible leading up to turn 10, so that he would have been in a position to challenge on turn 11 (left hand corner) if not before.

After the accident... well skaife shouldnt have been on the grass trackside, and Ingall should not have swerved at Skaife at speed, but in my eyes i know what the more serious offence is.

[Smiley]

Well it looks like Ingall got his sentence lessened by $5000 but the rest still stands. From the looks of it Skaife is apealling only the careless driving charge and not the one applying to his behavior after the incident. But who knows when we will find out what the result of that is.

[Butters]

Ok,

Really in my mind there was serious fault on both parts.

This is my take on the events :

Ingal stuffed the turn, skaife saw the advantage and went on the inside. Skaife ran wider than he should and hit Ingal, pushing him of the track. Skaife was in the wrong here as ingals car was clear past the B pillar at this point.

Ingal push's skaife to get back onto the track. All fair all good so far from Ingal. Skaife is the tool right now.

Ingal gets back on the track but continues to push for a little longer then he should have. Skaife spins. Ingals the tool for making the incident continue.

Skaife then gets out on the track when he should have been behind the barrier. Now to me, this is a HUGE sin. He ignored the direction of a marshal and endagered his life and others. He should get owned for going back out on the track.

Ingal then swerves arcoss at skaife. Now thats a big ass stupid thing to do also. Although I can kinda understand, if someone is on the side of the road abusing me, you wanna drive over and abuse m back. Thats no excuse and what Ingal did was down right dangerous.

A note here, so far Skaife has "started" both incidents, ok ingall went to far in retaliation, but Skaife is the instigator.

Then Skaife goes into pits and has a loop.

What annoyed me, was he crapped on like it was the greatest travisty in all motorsport history and such a sad day blah blah.

That shit happen's all the time, its racing. Just because it happened to him and not some pleb in the back of the pack that no one cares about. Doesn't mean its any more important.

/end massive rant

[GTRgeoff]

Doesn't sound as though many posting here have actually rubbed panels on the track but once locked together it was only a flip of the coin as to who was going off. Been there and done that in Sports Sedans.

Both are guilty of being idiots and it is a blight on the good racing that was done.

As far as Skaife being smart and spending millions on a team, well, I want to see the cheque that was written. I suspect he is owner only for a nominal fee under an "arrangement". Anyone who claims a team owner and fellow racer doesn't "...understand the Engineering" without a recognised degree or trade is a full on wanker. I refer of course to the V8 Superstars argument for standardisation between Skaife and Brad Jones 18 months ago. I have both and practice in both fields with integrity. Why can't he race like a pro?

Lets have a real race series with real cars running factory parts and realistic mods......Oh thats right.....GTP.

[Roy]

Havent had a chance to read it yet, but there is a story on Auto Action about SBR and Ingall being investigated by the stewards, the drama continues!

SkylineGeoff...got a job for a mech eng car nut thats willing to help out on race weekends?

Anyone who claims a team owner and fellow racer doesn't "...understand the Engineering" without a recognised degree or trade is a full on wanker. I refer of course to the V8 Superstars argument for standardisation between Skaife and Brad Jones 18 months ago. I have both and practice in both fields with integrity. Why can't he race like a pro?

Form an uninformed spectators view, Ford teams have stuggled with staff and funding, with other Ford teams poaching one anothers good engineers. Think back to DJR-> Pack Leader, hurting both GSR and DJR, then only to fold and start up a partnreship with Larkham. So in one season GSR lost funding and key personnel, DJR lost personnel and effectively hamstrung Fords top teams results for the next few seasons, once development started to slow over the next 12 months. While the newly formed SBR (Pack Leader) being the only team to here and there post great results in future seasons.

This all while HRT was starting to get its act together post Win Percy/Mezera management with Harrop input and Mobil money. And Larry put Ingall in a car that was actually competitive during the season, not just Bathurst.

Remove Skaife and Ingall from the mix and my thoughts are, if it was Lowndes diving up the inside of Murphy, Lowndes would have behaved very similarily to Skaife, and Murphy caught out under brakes missing the apex wouldnt have caused such an accident on corner exit.

I think i have made my stance pretty clear, both are at fault for various reasons, but i still think Skaifes move was as clean as majority of overtaking taking place, and dotn see him as being the instigator of the actual accident.

Oh, and hearing Russels comments days later, something to the effect "if he cant handle being shoved back, then its his problem", isnt he basically conceding that he was bumping into Skaife, as retaliatoin to Skaifes supposed bumps?

Talk, talk, talk... you would think i have an opinion

[GTRgeoff]

Roy

everyone has an opinion, it's what makes coming on here so enjoyable. Personally I have no allegiance to any Aus made car, which makes watching the racing enjoyable also.

I have previously done the Bathurst weekend with OzEmail, but naturally my impact in so short a time was probably negligible. i did get a 1 min interview during the race with Grant Denier as the media thought I was on there as a weatherman. i was simply modelling pit strategies against the approaching weather and very nearly had Brad going out on wets on a dry track. Unfortunately the rain that was on the way in turned and we got none but I would have loved to see the other teams watching brad go out on wets on the dry track moments before a major downpour. Thats racing. And no I still have no particular affilliation with Jones or Ford. BTW the fans, generally, are about as ignorant as you can get which is probably why the whole ford vs holden farce is so successful.

Anyway, what do you have in mind?

[Roy]

I use to be a Seton fan from the DR30 days...then Skaife. Ive been a Mezera fan, Gardner fan, Lowndes fan, Alan/Brad Jones fans. I dont really have any loyalty to either manufacturer either, typically respect many of the drivers for what they can do, there are a few i have never really liked.

If i had to chose id say Holden purely becuase i think the Holden is a better road car (more performance bits & pieces)

I cringe when i hear Cochraine say "the heartland...loves the V8s" doesnt he realise that some motorpsort fans are exactly that motorsport fans. Ill watch anything be raced. And while i like the V8 racing, i hope they dont go down the path of having a V8 lineup for the support categories, "...because thats what the heartland wants".

Actaully id like to see a return to the early 80s, where the cars have less downforce and move around a lot more, perhaps give them less rubber as well meaning the tyres will have to offer durability over outright grip. I think it will improve the racing as not only will the cars be better to watch as they will move around a lot more, the drop in downforce would help overtaking.

Perhaps becuase of the engineering side of it is why i like tin top racing more then formula cars because they are attempting to make something do what it was never intended to do, whereas Formula cars start with a rule book, a budget and a fresh sheet of paper.

I was thinking of doing the Tafe course in Albury, the one geared towards Motorsport... have you heard good/bad things? At the end of the day i probably dont really want to work in top level motorsport, all the travelling/hours etc, and i think it may take away from the enjoyment of it all. Plus working in other engineering industries is more lucrative and has better opportunities for travel.

For me i suspect its best to stay an interest, and look to club events, and tarmac rallies. A friend wants to get a 240Z between us, maybe go down that path?