Just An Idea

[PandaR33]

if i were to bolt a turbo on my 25de how much boost could i safely run and how much power would i gain?

[TALBO]

It's not as simple as simply bolting a turbo on

[PandaR33]

i know this im a mechenic. i just want to know how much boost the motor will take on na compression and internals.

panda

[MissR34]

there is a thread put as a sticky about this, its full of all the info you need.

[mad082]

since you want an answer in psi, on something like a stock turbo you could probably run about 5psi

[WYTSKY]

I ran 12psi on a stock turbo.

I'm running 14-15psi on an aftermarket turbo.

I'll be running about the same, possibly 1 or more psi on my new turbo.

That in no way means ur car will last past 1 psi...... luck of the draw I guess.

But the only thing I did was slowly up the boost from stock on the standard turbo, to 10psi then 12psi... then the oil seal went after about 6 months, then the next turbo, yet again... slowly increasing...... hint hint..

[N-DAWG]

7PSI is around the happy medium. Some have pumped through a lot more (refer WYTSKY) and still living to tell the tale. 15PSI to be exact.

i've been running 7PSI (low boost) and high boost is supposed to be tuned for around 10, but it seems I've got a faulty actuator so it climbs to around 12. I've got another actuator which will see it running 10, but it should be fine I reckon. I think you'll hit the limit of the turbo before the engine really...

It's worth noting that 666DAN ran his DE+t at 7PSI for a decent time (was it 50 or 70,000 kms?) before the car got stolen. With the right supporting mods, expect between 160-175rwkw. Better figures if you're running a manual transmission.

You'll also reach the limit of other non-turbo components like gearbox/clutch too before anything else.

[WYTSKY]

Yeh thats a good point N-DAWG....

after I first turboed my car, I killed my clutch COMPLETLY after 4 hours.... so budget something decent for that too...

I also bought new injectors, afm... intake pipe with bov ..manifold... drilled oil lines.... theres a lot to do....

[N-DAWG]

Ask Dori34, he knows all about gearbox/clutch after a turbo

My auto box showed me its true flaring nature after the turbo. It's in today to see whether a valve body upgrade/service and cooler will help clear things up, or if it's past that point... hopefully I've got it in time though!

[PandaR33]

there is a thread put as a sticky about this, its full of all the info you need.

I know the thread but is based on a r34 which is a neo moter i think? wytsky, have you done any internal work. 12-14 psi on a high comp motor is allot. btw frkn nice.

I allready have a near new excedy heavy duty button cluch and i'v heard that even a stock n/a gearbox is stronger then a sr20 box and mine is in very good condition.

as for supporing mods i figured if im going to run fairly low boost i could just run stock det fuel pump and injectors.

what is the comp ratio on a 25de?

cheer panda

Edited September 21, 2009 by PandaR33

[N-DAWG]

Your clutch would be up to scratch then.

I can't comment on the manual gearboxes (there was mention in another thread somewhere comparing gearboxes, I'll try find it)

Adam's running stock internals.. the only one I've seen posted here that wasn't stock internally was Tiffany (RB_turbo_bitch) and she's using new bearings and rings, but still DE pistons.

RB25DE's run 10:1 compression ratio, both in RB25DE and RB25DE NEO.

Even at stock boost I would recommend running at least a GTR pump, though for ~$150 you would be best to get something like a Walbro GSS342. Bosch 040 is more expensive but also another option.

I reckon you shouldn't have too much trouble getting hold of GTSt injectors, I would use them as a minimum.

You do NOT want to starve an engine of fuel, better safe than sorry than to risk leaning out the engine and killing it.

By supporting mods I would be referring more to things like Front/Dump Pipe, catback, hi-flow cat, hi-flowing pod filter with box and CAI. Improving the flow of your exhaust will help get exhaust gasses out of the engine quickly which will help with making power, getting through the rev range efficiently, and also with getting heat out of the engine efficiently.

Also the larger injectors and fuel pump will mean that the dollars you spend on tuning aren't so wasted if/when you need to increase the fuel supply.

I know you're only looking at smaller figures at the moment, but once you get used to the extra power, believe me you will want more! Once upon a time I said I would be happy with just running 7PSI... and at least you're prepared either way then.

Edited September 21, 2009 by N-DAWG

[WYTSKY]

I know you're only looking at smaller figures at the moment, but once you get used to the extra power, believe me you will want more! Once upon a time I said I would be happy with just running 7PSI... and at least you're prepared either way then.

Yeh man, those bugs bite hard

[PandaR33]

i fugured exhuast is a given. though i was thinking stock down pipe then a de-cat pipe and 3" turbo back, till i have cash for new down pipe. i allready have an apexi pod in box with cod.

I spoke to a mate today and i was tolk that my block should allready have the holes for the oil and water feed i should just nead to drill the sump for oil retern. true?

what computer will i have to run? ie stock de or stock turbo till i can get something like a microtech or geready.

panda

Edited September 21, 2009 by PandaR33

[N-DAWG]

Just run a JJR 3" front and dump.. they do the job well, is what I'm using. de-cat pipe? Yeah.. cops will see all the black on the back end of your car, pull you up, check the cat, and good luck to you coming out of that one near-alive!

I believe the R33 GTS RB25DE just has a blanking bolt for the oil. The R34 not the case, though there's a few ways around it without tapping the block.

From what I read you have a manual gearbox, therefore you can just replace the ECU completely with a PowerFC, or you could run a piggy-back with an eManage Blue or EMU. If you're serious about not pushing it past stock boost and just having a basic bolt-on conversion, just go with a GReddy eManage Blue Piggy Back System, BUT, make sure you put those zenner diodes in, unless the R33's don't have the same issue? If it's a series 2 they have built in igniters so I'm really not sure, perhaps Dan could clear that up?

Allow $300-400 for a eManage Blue with optional fuel and ignition timing harness + $300-350 for install + $500-600 for a PROPER tune. Don't skimp on tuning with a DE+t. This furthermore states my opinion on doing things like exhaust etc.. from the beginning. Do it once do it right. I've learnt that lesson the hard way, more times than I'd like to admit.

and yes Adam, those bugs do bite hard! Just as hard as the bugs that come out of other components that don't appreciate a lot of power! My baby's getting a complete gearbox overhaul now There was metal debri around the clutchpack seals and in the gearbox pan... hardly sounds like a good thing lol

Edited September 21, 2009 by N-DAWG

[WYTSKY]

Just run a JJR 3" front and dump.. they do the job well, is what I'm using. de-cat pipe? Yeah.. cops will see all the black on the back end of your car, pull you up, check the cat, and good luck to you coming out of that one near-alive!

I believe the R33 GTS RB25DE just has a blanking bolt for the oil. The R34 not the case, though there's a few ways around it without tapping the block.

From what I read you have a manual gearbox, therefore you can just replace the ECU completely with a PowerFC, or you could run a piggy-back with an eManage Blue or EMU. If you're serious about not pushing it past stock boost and just having a basic bolt-on conversion, just go with a GReddy eManage Blue Piggy Back System, BUT, make sure you put those zenner diodes in, unless the R33's don't have the same issue? If it's a series 2 they have built in igniters so I'm really not sure, perhaps Dan could clear that up?

Allow $300-400 for a eManage Blue with optional fuel and ignition timing harness + $300-350 for install + $500-600 for a PROPER tune. Don't skimp on tuning with a DE+t. This furthermore states my opinion on doing things like exhaust etc.. from the beginning. Do it once do it right. I've learnt that lesson the hard way, more times than I'd like to admit.

and yes Adam, those bugs do bite hard! Just as hard as the bugs that come out of other components that don't appreciate a lot of power! My baby's getting a complete gearbox overhaul now There was metal debri around the clutchpack seals and in the gearbox pan... hardly sounds like a good thing lol

That sux mate hope u get it sorted cheapishly....although I think we both know it wont happen... on a side note... not that it matters now but maayyybe for future references, even though (well mine is) the gearbox screw is magnetic, I don't find it strong enough....

So I have an old HDD magnet on there and 3 around my oil filter... great thing is, instead of spending like 20 bux on those drift 1's the HDD magnets are much much stronger and seem to be holding more of the sludge/fine metal fragments better, just a thought

and panda... if u run it on stock number boost ie 7-10psi... You can use a standard GTST computer, injectors and pump... I did for a few months while my bank account tried to recover and get a power fc... but theres not much that can be tuned then, so an emanage like N-dawg said is neccessary to do anything more and get more juice into it.

[PandaR33]

mmm powerFC is a bit to costly. you say i can run a piggy-back system, could i run a safc? and will i have to change to the turbo computer?

[meadan]

this is exactly what ive been planing to do to my 4 door since i got it. Though ive weighed up the costs and it seems that a series1 rb25det costs almost as much as the turbo kit would cost to put on.

does the det computer need any extra sensors to run properly?

[N-DAWG]

The benefit of something like an eManage or Power FC is the ability to tune ignition timing. My tuner tells me that the R34's don't need a LOT of adjustment as they are quite good at adjusting timing, though their o2 sensor is apparently a pile of #*@ lol You want to be able to tune ignition timing so as to stave of detonation. Running more timing will get you more power, but at a cost, and with high compression things can turn ugly easily if timing isn't retarded.

A SAFC is exactly what it stands for.. Super Air Flow Controller. It will adjust fuel accordingly but won't touch timing. This is where the GReddy eManage piggy back systems are great (particularly for auto's) is that they provide fuel and ignition remapping, without replacing the ECU, and in an auto the shift logic is in the ECU. In your case I would invest in a Power FC as it's not a piggy back wiring job = cheaper install! You might pay more for a Power FC but you're paying for more funcitonality and the actual product than you are the balance in labour to install the thing.

With all that said though, I believe that rotating the crank angle sensor will advance and retard timing? so really that combined with a GTSt computer (which will work well with GTSt injectors) should be ok till you sort out your ECU and tune. Either way you look at it though, tuning is going to make it run a whole lot better!

and yes Adam, the damage is NOT going to be good! However it will be rebuilt with kevlar clutch packs and clutch bands, replacing solenoids while it's out (for good measure really and to ensure the pressure is maintained), and they're working on a better quote to try and accomodate a valve body upgrade into my budget. so... whilst it's not going to be cheap, it's going to be a lot more reliable, and a LOT more fun!! With a rock solid box and quick shifts, i won't be adding boost in a hurry since I'll be getting the power to the wheels more efficiently! It will be no more slipping 3rd gear! =D

[PandaR33]

so i could just run a turbo computer and retard the timing. thats good to know. i would love a powerFC but i just dont have a grand to through at in ontop of all the other costs. would that mean i would have to change loom aswell?

nathan maybee think of going manual, you wont regret it...

panda.

[N-DAWG]

From what I understand yes, though I would only really do that as an in the mean time thing though.

PowerFC is a good option as you can just replace the ECU, definitely a worthwhile option.

Have a look into Nistune.. I know the GT NEO ECU's can't be Nistuned yet, but I'm not sure about the R33... if a R33 GTS ECU can be Nistuned then you should be good. If not an a R33 GTSt one can be Nistuned, then maybe go that way? To be honest I don't know a great deal about Nistune boards so I'll leave this to someone else to clear up.

Oh and whether I do a manual conversion, or get another used box, I'm still potentially buying someone elses problems.

My car's primarily a daily driver to and from work and I like having a semi-auto. Yeah it's still the slush box underneath it all, but you still have more control with a semi-auto than a traditional auto box. I'd rather invest the money into a rebuild and know that I have a rock solid reliable transmission, plus quick shifting FTW I'm looking at a rebuild with Heavy Duty Kevlar clutch packs and clutch bands, replacing the solenoids, and valve body upgrade Should be sweet, should have it back tomorrow!